Will I be judged for walking into my tribunal? - Page 2 — Scope | Disability forum
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Will I be judged for walking into my tribunal?

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  • feir
    feir Community member Posts: 397 Pioneering
    I could walk 200 meters every day, so long as i go no further than maybe 600 metres and mess myself up and become unable to walk at all (this is the distance i walk at hospital and so know it's about this distance that messes me up, although it doesn't mess me up straight away and there is an interval of several hours before i'm a mess so i can't be sure how far exactly). Walking only tiny and useless distances, being unable to get yourself dressed and feed yourself, and being so mentally unwell that you cannot function are the main criteria for being disabled, and i fail on all of these (apart from mental health now) although i should (imo) get some points for the physical as i do fulfil some of the criteria for the lower points now but when i was eligible for higher points late last year they gave me 0. They will ignore my diagnosis of moderate depression so i will fail on that again but i am going to mention it anyway.

    What i can't do is my own shopping, take care of my home, take care of my son who has learning difficulties and so my ex has had to take on some of my parental duties and has done, go upstairs, stand for very long, sit comfortably, support my own head for long periods and there's nothing they can do for my neck problems, cook for my kids, go out anywhere unless i get a taxi and am able to sit down when i get there and don't have to go up any stairs. Just feel like their criteria says if you can uncomfortably potter about your own house then you need no help with anything and this isn't true.

    I'm still going to apply for PIP again and have the form here for a couple of weeks ready to fill in as i'm mentally doing better this week and have had the proof they needed since a couple of weeks after my rejection letter but since January i have been really unwell mentally, including extreme suicidal thoughts that i found very hard to ignore, and know their rejection letter will be offensive again and probably make me mentally worse again and this is making me not want to send it off but i will do because everything is going to pot here and i'm so sick of not trying and accepting that life should be a struggle and that not getting help is normal. So what if they think i'm not disabled and am able to cope, i'm not coping and something needs to change. Also my consultant contradicts some of what my assessor said so hoping this will help.

    For anyone reading that don't worry about my suicidal thoughts btw, i am not going to act on them despite having made plans as there is no way to kill yourself that isn't painful and no way am i exiting this world in pain. I'm interested in campaigning for legal euthanasia and a pain free death though if anyone has any info on that and it's not even sad that i'd rather be dead, sometimes life isn't worth existing for and i have a degenerative condition and so will get worse and not better and there will come a time where acting on these thoughts will be most definitely in my best interest.






  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    The assessor asked me how far it was to the nearest shop (which I occasionally walk to with a housemate, albeit with 2 or 3 rests). I had no idea. My friend google-mapped it, and it said 300m. After the assessment, I google mapped it too. My friend had done it using the route a car would take (he has a car), and my road is one-way. Walking, it's 160m. Either way I should have gotten some points, but I got 0.
  • Matilda
    Matilda Community member Posts: 2,593 Disability Gamechanger
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    @Matilda Yup, waiting on tribunal now...
  • Matilda
    Matilda Community member Posts: 2,593 Disability Gamechanger
    Good luck, @Waylay.  As you've no doubt heard, 69% of appeals succeed.
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
  • Cazann
    Cazann Community member Posts: 83 Pioneering
    Waylay said:
    The assessor asked me how far it was to the nearest shop (which I occasionally walk to with a housemate, albeit with 2 or 3 rests). I had no idea. My friend google-mapped it, and it said 300m. After the assessment, I google mapped it too. My friend had done it using the route a car would take (he has a car), and my road is one-way. Walking, it's 160m. Either way I should have gotten some points, but I got 0.
    Hi Waylay
    How did you do at your appeal?  I am waiting for a date for mine.
    Cazann
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    @Cazann Sigh. Still waiting.

  • Cazann
    Cazann Community member Posts: 83 Pioneering
    @Waylay Hi. Have you had your tribunal yet and if so, how did you do? I have mine in 10 days (30th Jan) I am not getting represented but my daughter will be with me. I'm confident one minute and worried the next. I'll let you know how it goes. Take care.
  • Matilda
    Matilda Community member Posts: 2,593 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    The criteria are: walking before you have to stop and rest for a few minutes

    up to 20m aided = 12 points

    up to 50m aided = 10 points 

    up to 50m unaided = 8 points 

    You have to emphasise that you have to rest for a few minutes between each micro journey - otherwise assessors, and probably tribunals, will take it that you can cover hundreds of meters without stopping.  Some reasons for stopping are pain or fatigue or unsteadiness.

    If asked for how long, not how far, can you walk say it takes you X seconds or minutes to walk Y meters.  DWP think 45 seconds to walk 20m is very slow walking.  Don't just give a time in isolation because assessors/tribunals might assume you can walk farther than in fact you can.

    If asked how you know you can only walk 20m, for example, before you have to stop, have you ever measured it, say, no, it's an estimate based on experience of distances.  (Very few of us get a tape measure out when we walk).

    Tribunals are independent of DWP so are more reasonable than assessors.  They are there to find out what you can and can't do.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Matilda said:
    The criteria are: walking before you have to stop and rest for a few minutes

    up to 20m aided = 12 points

    up to 50m aided = 10 points 

    up to 50m unaided = 8 points 

    You have to emphasise that you have to rest for a few minutes between each micro journey - otherwise assessors, and probably tribunals, will take it that you can cover hundreds of meters without stopping.  Some reasons for stopping are pain or fatigue or unsteadiness.

    If asked for how long, not how far, can you walk say it takes you X seconds or minutes to walk Y meters.  DWP think 45 seconds to walk 20m is very slow walking.  Don't just give a time in isolation because assessors/tribunals might assume you can walk farther than in fact you can.

    If asked how you know you can only walk 20m, for example, before you have to stop, have you ever measured it, say, no, it's an estimate based on experience of distances.  (Very few of us get a tape measure out when we walk).

    Tribunals are independent of DWP so are more reasonable than assessors.  They are there to find out what you can and can't do.
    First of all a claimant guessing a distance is no better than what an assessor would do. In fact the assessor has the advantage of knowing the distances before hand of the internal and external layout of the building. 

    If you can think of a modern 3 bed house you would not go too far wrong in saying that the distance from the back to the front is approx. 10 metres - a little longer for older houses.
    So could you walk from the rear of your home to the front, turn round and go back ? If so that is approx. the max for enhanced mobility PIP.

    Stopping during walking has to be reasonable. Short breaks of say 30 secs is not the same as 10 mins after 20 metres. Your medical issues have to be consistent with needing this break.

    As an example I told the assessor that if I had to I could walk a mile. However that distance could only be covered in 10/15 metres segments with a break of a minute or two every time. Such a journey would take at least 2 hours and probably 3 hours.  The assessor wrote that I could walk over 200 metres.

    When the DWP were presented with a report from the spinal unit that said that after being tested on their walking machine I fell off twice after 10/15 metres. The hospital concluded that that was the level of my independent mobility. The DWP changed the 200 metres+ opinion to under 20 metres! Just shows how wrong assessors could be and how they fail to take on board the 'reliability' criteria even though it was pointed out to them.  
  • telscope
    telscope Community member Posts: 37 Connected
    Tribunals are far different to assessors. I have epilepsy & I can walk. I had my assessment, a mandatory reconsideration & a tribunal to go to. 
    The tribunal was the best part, as I stated that I can walk & I can have a seizure at anytime & anywhere.  
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    @Cazann I won! 11 points daily living, 8 mobility. I should have gotten more, but I was so shattered by the whole year-long thing that I just went with it.

    The panel were really nice, gave me a time out when I needed one, and asked good questions. It was stressful, but not traumatic. I hope yours is similar!

    I had a friend as a representative, and my partner and a friend for support. My friend/rep isn't an expert, just bolshy and good at advocating for people.
  • Colino
    Colino Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    The tribunal asked me how I got to court that day and where we had parked they also asked if i had used the lift or stairs  and also how i was going home.
    hope it helps  
  • Matilda
    Matilda Community member Posts: 2,593 Disability Gamechanger
    To my surprise tribunal didn't ask how I got there.   But I had submitted a diary setting out my car journeys so they asked a lot about my usual driving.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Colino said:
    The tribunal asked me how I got to court that day and where we had parked they also asked if i had used the lift or stairs  and also how i was going home.
    hope it helps  
    Didn't you think of telling them that you had hired a helicopter that put down in the car park? Returning? a quick phone call would see it return to collect you!
  • Colino
    Colino Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Lol Yadnad 
     tell you the truth spent most my time biting my tongue, had loads I wanted to say 
     
  • Cazann
    Cazann Community member Posts: 83 Pioneering
    @Waylay and @Colino. I am pleased that you have got a good result from your tribunal's and have got it over with!  It is more than a year since I applied for PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. Like many, I was turned down and then got only 4 points at MR. I am going with my daughter. She bought me a wheel chair last summer, so we could go on a weekend away, as I haven't been on holiday for over 10 years. I have difficulty walking more than a few yards, so I will be using the wheel chair to go to the tribunal, as I don't know how far I will have to walk, when I get there. But I think that I will walk into the tribunal room. as I want to prove that my walking isn't good. Thanks for your advice.
    I will post on here after my tribunal next week xx
  • Pippa_Alumni
    Pippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,793 Disability Gamechanger
    Wishing you all the best for your tribunal, @Cazann!
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Cazann said:
    @Waylay and @Colino. I am pleased that you have got a good result from your tribunal's and have got it over with!  It is more than a year since I applied for PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. Like many, I was turned down and then got only 4 points at MR. I am going with my daughter. She bought me a wheel chair last summer, so we could go on a weekend away, as I haven't been on holiday for over 10 years. I have difficulty walking more than a few yards, so I will be using the wheel chair to go to the tribunal, as I don't know how far I will have to walk, when I get there. But I think that I will walk into the tribunal room. as I want to prove that my walking isn't good. Thanks for your advice.
    I will post on here after my tribunal next week xx
    Using a wheelchair that you have bought presumably without having a wheelchair assessment could raise problems. 
    It is a well known fact that some claimants buy them off Ebay purely to show the Tribunal/assessor that they need it. Questions could be asked if the wheelchair is actually needed if you haven't had that assessment.

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