PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Assessor lied in assessment

Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
edited January 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Background:

Father 62 has worked for over 45 years as a butcher. Has had venous leg ulcers since 2012. Only claimed PIP last year after he was told by by nurse that if he continued working his legs wouldn’t heal. He unwillingly resigned. (Also has vertigo, bradycardia, migraines and arthititis, depression but too proud to admit).

Anyway after a battle of form filling and hoop jumping he was awarded enhanced mobility and standard care (July 2018).

December (2018) pip review for arrived and he had a f2f home assessment.

Issues with f2f assessment:
Assessor refused to confirm purpose of assessment
- Became defensive and hostile when I asked for his name and qualification (paramedic).
- Ordered copy of his report- full of lies. 
-Claims my dad can wash his hair- my dad is bald.
- My Dad uses aids in bathroom to wash himself but assessor wrote opposite (didn’t even ask the question).
- Kept saying because my dad’s ulcers have healed on surface they should be cured now. He’s had them since 2012 every year! Only stabilised since he stopped bearing constant weight on legs. And he’s sentenced to lifetime of compression stockings and cannot wear normal footwear.
- casually asked him if he was suicidal?!! 
- saw him pick up carrier bag to vomit in- “this shows flexation in arm”
- left his charger and coat behind- I had to call his office so he could collect it.

im so disgusted with the way it was done. Dad’s lost care component and got 12 points for moving around. To top it all off whilst pip assessor walked out...ESA WCA letter fell in from letter box!!!

any advice!!!!! How to challenge and stay strong. I’m the only one that can fill his forms etc as CAB are mega busy

Replies

  • steve51steve51 Community champion Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Serendipity77

    Good Evening & Welcome 🙏🙏

    I am very very sorry to hear about your current situation.
     
    I am one off the “Community Champion’s”

    I would be more than happy in helping you with things if I can???

    Please let me know how you feel????

    @steve51
  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Hi @steve51

    The stress of filling forms/gathering evidence/assessments and then lies in reports is putting us off with continuing to fight for the benefits.

    I need to complain about the assessor. Any advice/tips?

    Fill in WCA for for ESA- they’ll try to end it so my dad has to to go on universal credit?!!

    Prepare for PIP tribunal... would I be allowed to speak on behalf of my father? He’s too proud and conservative with telling people how his conditions affect him!

    btw for his ESA WCA Assessment- twice he was sent home as the assessor deemed him “ to sick to assess!”!!! Third time I refused to take him back so they assessed and put him in support group!

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger

    @Serendipity77 - I found myself in this position. From reading the advice (very good advice!) on this forum I came to this conclusion...

    DWP apparently almost always go with the points score in the assessors report. To challenge their decision, I don't think it's worth concentrating on a strategy of "the assessor lied.” It’s better to help your father explain what issues he has,and give examples of how he is unable to complete certain task & what steps he has to take I order to manage i.e. whether he needs aids, or help from someone else. Maybe help hime keep a diary for a week or so?

    As regards complaining about the assessor I have reluctantly concluded that this isn’t worthwhile as it’s like banging your head against the wall and no-one at the service provider seems to care. I did complain, but mainly because I didn’t want someone else to go what I had gone through. 

    They company were defensive from the start. They ‘lost’ my first letter (sent recorded and signed for), then I got ‘the assessor can’t remember’, and after a few more letters I got a begrudging apology that there were mistakes (after they had listened to my recording) Complete waste of my time and effort.

    Use your time more productively and concentrate on providing good, clear examples in order to challenge the DWP decision.


    Good luck!


  • April2018momApril2018mom Member [under moderation] Posts: 2,882 Member - under moderation
    I'm very sorry to hear that. Make sure to use your time valuably and productively too. My son's assessment report was full of inaccurate information and lies as well. I specifically stated he could not walk independently. However the report said that he was ambulant on which they were mistaken woefully so as well. I decided to appeal the decision. Perhaps you can keep a diary for a few days or so. 
    Provide good specific easy to support examples. 
  • ash5896ash5896 Member Posts: 118 Pioneering
    I went through the same we all the lies. I have exhausted the DWP/AtoS complaints procedure and now have the ICE looking at my complaint. Anyway with regards to your appeal what I did was I went through every descriptor and wrote how it affected me and the points I should have received. This was what I was advised from members on here. When I did the Reconsoderation my points were increased but the length of the awards was for a year and I appealed this and explained why. I then got a letter from the courts acknowledging they’ve received my documents for appea amd a few days later got a letter saying DWP have increased the length of the award to 10 years.
    it took me a long time to do all this but it’s worth it. If you look at some of my posts you’ll see the advice I was given hopefully which will be helpful for you too.
    oh I’ve also put a complaint to the NMC regarding the nurse and her lies. 
    Ash 
  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thank you for all your advice!

    Feels like I’m not the only one fighting this system!

    Having my own family and a stressful job, I need to, as you all advised, focus on what is worthwhile challenging. 

    Ive just filled in the ESA WCA form.

    For PIP I’ll now evidence how he meets each descriptor.

    Although his ulcers have healed on leg, he has had them for 8 years. If he was to start walking a lot and standing like he used to, they would definitely return.
    His legs are still painful. DWP Assessors suggest he’s cured. How do I get my point across that his condition is stable not cured.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Any complaints about the HCP should be sent to the health assessment providers. Detail of their complaints procedure will be on their website.

    For the PIP, you have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the MR and this should be done in writing. You need to state where you think he should have scored those points and the reasons why. Giving 2-3 examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him.

    They will look at the whole award again and not just part of it. Most MR decisions remain the same, so he'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal.

    Appearing in person at the Tribunal will give him the best chance of a decision in his favour. During the hearing you will not be able to speak on his behalf unless you're his appointee. The panel will want to hear it from him how his conditions affect him. You maybe asked if there's anything you would like to add at the end but this doesn't always happen.

    For the ESA50 form, you need to put as much information about how his conditions affect him as possible. Knowing the reasons why he was previously placed into the Support Group will help, if they still apply then you can base filling out the form on those reasons.

    The form must be returned no later than the date in the letter, there's no extension for returning this form. If it's not returned by that date then he risks being found fit for work for failing to return the form. Most people have face to face assessments, it's rare to have a paper based assessment. If a home assessment is needed then a letter from his GP will be required stating the reasons why he can't attend on of the centres. Don't forget to send any relevant evidence with the form because they rarely contact anyone for this. Hope this helps. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member [under moderation] Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @steve51

    The stress of filling forms/gathering evidence/assessments and then lies in reports is putting us off with continuing to fight for the benefits.

    I can believe you as I was in that position. I had my MR in April last year which agreed with the original DWP decision - 0 points. Two years previously awarded enhanced care and mobility!

    I just couldn't find the strength to fight them any further. Some weeks ago I found someone who would support me with a Tribunal hearing as previously there was no help in my area. This support and representation will come at a cost based on what the back pay is if I win. If I lose I won't owe anything.
  • steve51steve51 Community champion Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Serendipity77

    How are things today??

    It looks like you have had a great response from our members!!!!

    I let me know if there’s anything else that would help you further???

    @steve51

  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    @steve51 feel much better knowing there are people out there who understand this struggle.

    @Yadnad
    The cuts to welfare rights has made it almost impossible to find support during an appeal. If I didn’t help my father, he would not have anyone else to help him.

    I can advocate on behalf of others all day long, but when it comes to family I struggle. But I do hope to volunteer any future spare time to helping people with appeals and form filling for benefits.
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Welcome to the community @Serendipity77!

    You've had some brilliant advice from our community members and I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear about your Dad's experiences- that must have been tough on you all, and I'm pleased to hear you'll be taking this further. Please do keep us updated and we'll advise where we can.
  • tedwtedw Member Posts: 2 Listener
    I lost half my pip thanks to the lies from the assessor. When i complained, I didnt realise this would be a part of the appeals. I was so upset, I missed the time to ask for a  tribunal , so i thought i'd wait until my head was straight enough to go for a mandatory reconsideration. I didn't realise there was a 13 month limit. I've missed it by 2 months. Now my head is straight enough to have a go....what can #i do?
  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    I am another member feeling unhappy about my assessors report. It contained lots of spelling mistakes and lies and it seems the assessor just wrote anything she wanted in order to score me the lowest of points. There is no need for these assessors to lie about our conditions and I do get upset about that. I am still waiting for the DWP decision letter and after contacting them I was told at least your casework is on a decision makers desk and not in a queue so when they have time to look at it they will contact you. It is eight weeks since I had my f2f assessment and my nerves are at breaking point with the wait.

    I do like the fact that Ash5896 said they have put in a complaint to the NMC and that is what I want to do as so many lies in the report is scandalous and letting down real medical professionals that have always treated me with dignity and respect. I am somewhat bothered though as I have heard if you complain you get marked down even more, it seems nobody is on the side of genuine disability cases and the ones holding any power are the assessors and the DWP. It is quite a struggle to keep fighting ones corner and trying to get anywhere.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    tedw said:
    I lost half my pip thanks to the lies from the assessor. When i complained, I didnt realise this would be a part of the appeals. I was so upset, I missed the time to ask for a  tribunal , so i thought i'd wait until my head was straight enough to go for a mandatory reconsideration. I didn't realise there was a 13 month limit. I've missed it by 2 months. Now my head is straight enough to have a go....what can #i do?
    Nothing you can do now regarding that last decision. If you already have a PIP award then you can put in a change of circumstances for a worsening condition. Be careful doing this though because you could lose everything you already have. Face to face advice is needed before doing anything. Another thing to think about is when is your review due? If it's soon then it maybe worth you waiting. It's really impossible to advise anything more on an internet forum as no one knows how your conditions affect you.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    @Pippa_Scope

    i have a question in relation to medication.

    my Dad used to have a carrier bag full of medication that he used to take daily. He had crazy side effects and affected his weight etc. One day he binned it all, and decided to invest in eating clean and using relaxation therapies/ cupping and things like magnesium flakes. This makes him feel in control and less worried about side effects. BUT the assessors think that if you don’t take tablets that are prescribed then you are not ill. 

    My my dad used to take naproxen and ibuprofen all the time for pain, but now uses a hot water bottle and curcumin tablets. Even if it’s placebo it helps him and we don’t need to worry about side effects.

    Do dwp understand this? Can we justify this? Or do we just keep getting medication prescribed just to ensure our issues are seen as “real”???
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  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    @apollo14lmp

    they deffo do it for money and the hours.

    normal paramedic starts at £21k whilst if you go to Atos aka IAS it’s £32. Go figure.

    its really sad.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Why on earth would someone collect their medication and then bin it? :o
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    @apollo14lmp

    our GP is so busy he actually says “only one problem per appointment). Also once your over 60 they sort of fob you off. Apart from painkillers and antibiotics they try to avoid referring to other services. 

    I pay privately for alternative therapies for my dad. I do not have the time or strength to battle with the doctors.
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  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    In answer to apollo14lmp.  Thank-you for advice to report the assessor, I have basically looked at the NMC website and have the read the professionals Code of how they should and should not behave if they are registered with the NMC. In my opinion my assessor broke many parts of her code and was actually incompetent.

     Dress code is not in her competence for the NMC but she was dressed really unprofessional at the f2f.  I do not like to judge people myself but from the minute she called me into the room I had a complete gut reaction that did not bode well.

    She was wearing 3 inch stiletto high heels and a skirt one and a half inches above the knee, her eyelashes were caked in mascara and if she was a nurse representing her profession then heaven help the NHS. Sorry to be judgemental but how unprofessional.  
  • YadnadYadnad Member [under moderation] Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Why on earth would someone collect their medication and then bin it? :o
    Many people collect their meds but never actually take them. Maybe they don't like the side effects and are too worried to tell the GP so go along with what the GP expects. There are also those that simply use their repeat prescriptions to demonstrate to the DWP at a later date that they are on so many tabs and medicine that they are at death's door. I am aware of at least one of the latter who finds it extremely difficult in disposing of their meds every month. 

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  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    Poppy who said why would someone collect their medication then bin it.

    I would imagine that the person who done that had too many side effects and was distressed they were feeling so bad. The answer is go back to G.P and get meds adjusted to suitable dosage. It can be depressing to find yourself on a lot of meds, perhaps it is best to ask for other therapies that can be beneficial after all being on too much meds long term does not help liver kidneys etc, even my consultant told me that and sent me off to pain management for their view on things. 
  • YadnadYadnad Member [under moderation] Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    God .... i need mine not tolerant of a med i get it changed with my GP
    Meds have saved my life hard to take all the time on time...
    Without beta blockers amlodipine bisoprolol
    Losartan would defo be wiped out ...

    The individual I mentioned in my post above is supposed to take the maximum dosage of a particular anti depressant, and enough pain relief medication including morphine etc that could well sink a battleship.

    In reality the individual now has little pain due to an improvement in his health, his mobility is far better than mine yet he recently received a review award of his PIP for another 5 years - Enhanced mobility/Standard care.

    When asked why he does it and if he is worried about being caught he just says because he can. He briefly explained that he doesn't lie? but remembers how he was years ago when he was ill and disabled. and continues to repeat the same story/claim each time obviously backed up with an up to date repeat prescription list.

  • tedwtedw Member Posts: 2 Listener
    I have mobility problems due to osteoarthritus and osteoporosis , all my discs are herniated and I have been diagnosed with spinal cord stenosis.I had full mobility dla prior to PIP and I have a mobility scooter. I told them that when I walk IN town, I cannot walk far even with 2 sticks very far and certainly  nowhere near 20 metres in a minute. According to their report...I walk TO town....They must be joking! That's what made me so angry.I'm on morphine twice a day plus other stuff.Do they think I take it for a laugh????
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 55 Connected
    Just a question about assessors at the f2f what if you realise the nurse which assessed you actually knows you and you know she doesn't get on with family then when report comes you have most of your award taken of you only realised when she got report back with name on all lies obs what was wrote in report .
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  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 55 Connected
    It's my daughter not me and I thought that she shouldn't of examined her cause she would of known she knew her I said to give the dwp a ring a ask to be assessed by someone else as she's taken her mobility of her and reduced her to standered care the dwp went with everything she said 
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  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A few have been sacked for misconduct  .. im just reporting them for being liars that most of them are ....
    That's not exactly true. A lot of people have good reports with no contradictions etc, the problem is we don't often hear the good stories. Believe it or not there are some nice HCPs out there.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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  • YadnadYadnad Member [under moderation] Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    I can only speak as i find .. each one i have met lied about me.
    Made stupid comments like opened a bag with meds and give me them .. to justify their bad opinion....
    Tribunals 70 % + awards given as they know the assessors are little more than paid liars 
    If these people were worth their salt would be working on Nhs n ambulances rather than screwing sick people will beg to differ in this one sorry
    Personally I wouldn't give them the time of day - as for liars they don't even get off the ground floor!

    Some of the best and most accomplished liars that I have had the misfortune to come across are professionals - solicitors, accountants, bank managers etc not forgetting quite a few of my colleagues who sit as councillors - even one or two who actually have a gong!
  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    Hi All,
    I hope everyone is reasonably well today. This is just a check in with you guys and mostly an answer to ilovecats. I did say my assessor was incompetent and apart from what I have already said here is a bit more, I have long term chronic back problems,  spondylosis of spine, sciatica which touches root nerve in leg injured knee which has now got arthritis in and so walking is a little bit difficult.

    The assessor asked me to do a little bit of physical tests so okay I will do what I can if I cannot then I will say so. The so called health professional (although I would actually call her something else) asked me to bend my knees and crouch to the floor. I declined, at least she wrote declined to do this. Also without me getting up from chair she asked me to lift foot slightly off floor, I done that. So okay in physical tests she said she performed tests on left hand, considering I had to wear my left hand brace that day to support pain it fits all around my thumb and then fingers and reaches up as far as two inches over wrist the inside of it is moulded like a splint making it impossible to move anything at all around the hand, that is why I could not even drive to centre that day and got a taxi. I even told her you can touch right hand but you are not touching the left hand so she left it. The lies these people write are appalling does anyone know if those assessment rooms have cameras in although if anything actually got to court then we know that the PIP centre would conveniently lose the tapes for that day.

    I do not like to complain about health professionals as the NHS staff that have treated me over the years are second to none and what they do for the pay they receive is all wrong, they should start paying basic nurses the rates that the damn Atos/Capita assessors get then PIP would have no assessors working for them.

    Sorry to disagree with some that these people are good assessors but that is my experience.

    As for the whole PIP process my daughter is fed up hearing about it and she has told me that she is phoning them up to tell them shove it where the sun does not shine. I have talked her out of that but she is fed up of me being upset.

    Enjoy your day all.
  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    Hi ilovecats, 
    I understand what you are saying about Apollo reporting the grievances to the HCPC.  Although if  Apollo has concerns then certainly that is a good thing to do. I cannot report my concerns to HCPC as my professional is not with them she will come under the NMC who are her regulatory body.
    I am also reporting the HCP to Atos although something I already reported to them and asked for the complaints form they just told me that silly minor things are irrelevant and the DWP will just laugh, so I cannot see Atos taking any notice whatsoever about complaints.
    That is why i asked does anybody know if there are any cameras in those PIP centers.

    Enjoy your day.
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  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    I  sort of guessed that cameras in the PIP centres are used for observations about claimants.
    If the regulatory body asked for any [email protected] footage to be used in any evidence would any be available they cannot lie about CCTV if they have some.

    The government want to remove as many claimants as they can such draconian measures when will the voice of disabled claimants ever be listened to?
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    edited January 2019
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  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 55 Connected
    Just an answer to the reply to my  question my daughter only realised when her report came with name on it then realised who she was as on the day she was anxious and other problems but didn't realise who she was until her name on report she is going to put a Mr letter in and see how it goes .
  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    hi All,
    Just a reply to Apollo post of 28th Jan. I did see it yesterday and was leaving a post but I pressed the wrong key on keyboard and cleared the message so I was tired and left it until today.

    I did look at the sites you put up, and that is a disgrace. Those poor claimants whose lives had been made a misery for months is so unfair.

    I have contacted the NMC on-line and they said I would have a reply in three working days although I said I would send all documents by post delivery as I  am not brilliant at I.T.


    Right now I have a bigger headache to deal with only today received a letter from
    Motability that P.I.P. have informed them from 30th  Jan they are not paying me enhanced rate, Motability are okay although they were surprised I have not received my P.I.P award letter as yet and knew nothing of any decisions.

    I have not been onto DWP today as I had a fall on Sunday badly hurt my knee and leg so when I went to GP he sent me to get an x-ray and I have been at hospital all afternoon. I have come back from there with crutches and painkillers.

    I do like the way the health assessor said I could probably walk 200 metres
     which was only based on assumption, since Sunday I have basically walked about 5 metres whenever I have hobbled around.

    Maybe I feel a bit defeated because of the pain of the fall and feeling a bit tired what usually happens as still waiting for the awards letter.

    All advice greatly appreciated from experienced and knowledgeable people on site.

    I have never done the P.I.P.  before as they  are transferring me from DLA  I know it is about how the disability affects your day to day life so I am learning, although I thought they at least would have notified me from DWP
  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    HELP!!!

    Im so run down, drained and fed up! My father’s PIP decision letter arrived 10 days ago but is dated 24/1/2019.

    They have removed his care but extended review period of enhanced mobility to 3 years....decision maker’s response was full of ****!

    My father uses, walking stick, Aid to apply stockings, lives in adapted house, mother manages his medication and cold all meals. He needs help washing and bathing. PIP claimed he can wash his hair...my father is bald.

    So many lies! I just don’t have the energy to deal with this! Got WCA to deal with too. This benefits system is pure torture!

    I have to apply for mandatory reconsideration....please advise me on how to do it???

    This whole process is taking a toll not only on my father but me and my young family. 

    CAB is a waste of time. There are hardly any welfare rights officers left who have capacity to take on cases! Fed up!!!
  • samantha21samantha21 Member Posts: 64 Connected
    Hi  to you Serendipity 77,  I have  seen your post so will try to offer a little bit help  of what you have to do next. Also sorry to hear how run down you feel I know what it is like to take care of your parents when they become ill. I had both mum and dad to care for about 10 years ago but at least I did not have all this PIP to deal with as they had attendance allowance, so the mental torture was slightly less.


    Firstly the Mandatory Reconsideration process  : You have to contact the PIP line and register to them by telephone that you want a reconsideration, they will ask why. Once you have done that get your award letter and look at all the descriptors you disagree with and put your explanation as to what you disagree with and why and then get it posted to them. You have 28 days from the date of your award letter to do this and they like you to do that in correct time. At least you got the mobility descriptors so that is good news.

    I do not know anything much about WCA is that the work capabilities assessment? I think others on the forum will know more about that.

    Tell them the day and date you received the award letter and ask for the 28 days to reply to them
    .
    That is the only advice I can give as I had to do the same thing for Mandatory Reconsideration it is a headache doing all of it but best of luck.
  • Serendipity77Serendipity77 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Got the mandatory reconsideration notice! They won’t change decision! I have to go to tribunal! I feel like giving up
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  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    i have gone through a shocking experience which i have posted here https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/271751#Comment_271751   i went for an assessment and the female assessor lied about everything including that no one took me to the assessment. i do not know what to do. i requested the report but not had the official no yet. but the report was shocking with so many lies.

  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    can anyone let me know if they have been successful in challenging a decision, and if anyone has reported an assessor. What I mean is. I have asked for the reconsider request, but i read that 92% go with the assessor.

    I went for my assessment the other week and when i got the report back i was shocked. It was like reading someone elses report. The report was full of lies and she also contradicted herself a number of times.

    In the report she wrote things like he walked at speed, i wished i could walk at speed. She also put things like he had no trouble spelling the word backwards. I had loads of problems and could not do it. She also put down that i did lots of different tests which i did not. The report was full of lies and as a result i got a letter saying i got no points.

    My doctors were shocked and told me not to give up and appeal.

    So, my question is, has anyone reported their assessor for telling lies on the report, and if so did you win. Also, is it not a criminal offence for an assessor to lie on an official report. I would also like to know if anyone has won on a reconsider request.
  • marydohertymarydoherty Member Posts: 7 Listener
    ive had the same issue,  i had my assesment, got awarded standard livng and no mobility.  i recorded the interview without telling them and i have just had the report come through and they have lied their behinds off and i can prove it but i didnt have their permission to record however i did not start recording until after the assesor gave their details.  Is there anything i can do with this recording other than turning it over to the news papers?
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