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Communicating - aids - PIP - OCD

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  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    Maybe you're right @Yadnad?

    Put your inability to walk 20 metres in the box for managing medication - that way you're bound to get at least some points for "unable to understand verbal information" !!
  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    Yadnad said:
    Why does this all matter? Why worry what the 'hidden' meanings behind a descriptor are.
    Just explain what you have difficulties with and then let the DWP worry about whether they fit or not.
    Grief, I am also confused as to what the descriptors could mean but why bother - you are not the one making the decisions.

    I explained in my words what my difficulties are, then I looked at the descriptors and thought - yes I could fall into that one. However the assessor and the DWP didn't agree. I won my first two appeals at MR stage based entirely on written evidence from reputable medical sources that (a) I could not physically walk more than 20 metres - as tested in hospital) (b) the aids I had were needed and not a question of choice plus a couple of other provable issues.

    I did not try to work out if what my problems were could be shoe horned into a descriptor - a claimant is not asked or expected to do that. 
    I agree, was just pointing out that Poppy was saying one thing but the link that was given says something completely different. It's also quite relevant to me aswell so I'd like to be 'informed' I guess.

    would also like to point out that CA recommends you ticking yes if you have trouble communicating with people, have family that fills in gaps in conversations, etc. This suggests to me that while you may be able to speak and understand what's being said, if you have trouble with having full conversations etc, then you should be ticking yes and fighting for points here. CA Also mentions that if it makes you anxious this should be mentioned in Mixing with others, it doesn't say you should mention there also that you have trouble communicating - but rather only if it causes you to be anxious etc.


    For my MR I just wrote about my communication problems, gave evidence of my GP suspecting aspergers and also wrote that my psychiatrist/CPN also suspected it and mentioned their names. I doubt they will contact them but who knows. Mentioned that the assessor lied in a throwaway comment & I shut down and had to have my mum answer 2 questions for me at the assessment and was too busy trying to calm myself down that I got distracted and wasn't listening to him for one question. Also mentioned that when I can't answer things and they push for answers & don't accept it from my mum (like at my most recent ESA assessment), I panic and storm out the room & locked myself in another office for 20 minutes. Didn't mention having to write stuff down at my Doctors a lot, in hindsight after reading that I probably should have but oh well I think I've put forward a decent case...  Mentioned this under the mixing with others aswell as it's relevant to both (IMO). I originally scored 0 points and I'm awaiting the MR result.

    Perhaps I don't deserve to get points & poppy is right as I suppose there's nothing really physically forcible 'stopping' me from saying those words and in an empty room I could, but when it comes to face to face situations I just can't (not really sure how to explain this) so an argument could be made here. But based off that link Poppy posted it sounds like situations like mine (and maybe OP's) should be recieving some points for this descriptor and it isn't strictly down to understanding the words being said or spoken.

    cristobal said:
    Maybe you're right @Yadnad?

    Put your inability to walk 20 metres in the box for managing medication - that way you're bound to get at least some points for "unable to understand verbal information" !!
    that's written information though not verbal..that would come under activity 8 :P

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    cristobal said:
    Maybe you're right @Yadnad?

    Put your inability to walk 20 metres in the box for managing medication - that way you're bound to get at least some points for "unable to understand verbal information" !!
    Never thought of that. Mess the form up which shows that you don't understand a damn thing!:*
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019


    would also like to point out that CA recommends you ticking yes if you have trouble communicating with people, have family that fills in gaps in conversations, etc. This suggests to me that while you may be able to speak and understand what's being said, if you have trouble with having full conversations etc, then you should be ticking yes and fighting for points here. CA Also mentions that if it makes you anxious this should be mentioned in Mixing with others, it doesn't say you should mention there also that you have trouble communicating - but rather only if it causes you to be anxious etc.


    Well if I went to the 'nth' degree and took everything I do and don't do I would be writing  War & Peace in every box + the section for more info on the PIP2!
    I have a diagnosis and have been tested for Dementia and brain function. Those tests revealed early onset Vascular Dementia as well as Frontal Lobe damage - altered personality.
    Of course I too find it difficult sometimes to find the right words whilst giving a speech in the Council Chamber, yes some things I say don't make much sense hence why I always write out what I intend to talk about. It doesn't mean to say that I am mentally disabled to the extent of qualifying for PIP. In fact following the first claim I made in 2013, I did write everything down on the PIP2 only to have the assessor and the DWP decide that the 14 reasons they came up with that I don't have any mental issues was nearer to the truth. For assessment numbers 2 and 3 I didn't bother to mention anything related to mental health issues.
    My way of looking at it is to concentrate on what I can prove on the balance of probabilities and not what I can't prove.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    ilovecats said:




    Poppy is completely correct. 


    If you have the ability to communicate but cannot due to a mental health issue then it applies only to Activity 9 - Engaging.

    "Not being able to express verbally" in the context of Activity 7 applies to people who may have severe speech impediments as a result of things like stroke, oral surgery, deformities etc and for people who have cognitive issues or sensory issues e.g. hearing impaired people who require an interpreter or family member
    Thanks. Yes 9 is about engaging. Yes I have a mental health problem and yes I do find it difficult to engage expressively. But I have spent years trying to over come that problem but it still persists today to some extent. The problem that I have is that on the face of it I should qualify under 9 but put it into the bigger picture it is something that I will never be able to prove as one of my voluntary positions is that I am a Councillor and chairman of the board of directors of a large charity. Speaking at a council meeting does not fit with claiming under 9. 


    As for 7, I am deaf in both ears and have to wear hearing aids. Those aids help as they avoid the need for someone to sign for me. Hence that section does not apply to me either as I have help (aids). However the use of those aids did not count for any points as in my second assessment (2015) I only had one in as I had run out of batteries! I had to prove via the NHS battery book later that I have two aids therefore 2 points.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,330 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    - not being able to express verbally should also count as making themselves understood - because you can't understand silence/mutism. If I walk into my Doctors for example and can't get the words out, I'm not making myself understood and she won't be able to help me. If you cannot communicate properly that means you either need to write it down, or have someone help you, this would come under the examples they give as not to an acceptable standard.



    Poppy is completely correct. 

    Unfortunately selective mutism is not considered under the scope of Activity 7, only under Activity 9. 

    If you have the ability to communicate but cannot due to a mental health issue then it applies only to Activity 9 - Engaging.

    "Not being able to express verbally" in the context of Activity 7 applies to people who may have severe speech impediments as a result of things like stroke, oral surgery, deformities etc and for people who have cognitive issues or sensory issues e.g. hearing impaired people who require an interpreter or family member. 
    Thanks very much for confirming that i was in fact correct. I was hoping you or someone with knowledge would see this and confirm that i'm correct. Much appreciated.


    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    Yadnad said:


    As for 7, I am deaf in both ears and have to wear hearing aids. Those aids help as they avoid the need for someone to sign for me. Hence that section does not apply to me either as I have help (aids). However the use of those aids did not count for any points as in my second assessment (2015) I only had one in as I had run out of batteries! I had to prove via the NHS battery book later that I have two aids therefore 2 points.
    2 hearing aids = 2 points. Frustrating that you had to prove it but unfortunately with these items being readily available there are a select few who abuse this. 
    Oh I agree entirely. Even two can be bought on ebay for £20!!
    And don't get me onto ebay wheelchairs and crutches - I know quite a few 'disabled' claimants that would swear blind that they need them only to find that after the decision to award has been made they end up back on ebay!


  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    - not being able to express verbally should also count as making themselves understood - because you can't understand silence/mutism. If I walk into my Doctors for example and can't get the words out, I'm not making myself understood and she won't be able to help me. If you cannot communicate properly that means you either need to write it down, or have someone help you, this would come under the examples they give as not to an acceptable standard.



    Poppy is completely correct. 

    Unfortunately selective mutism is not considered under the scope of Activity 7, only under Activity 9. 

    If you have the ability to communicate but cannot due to a mental health issue then it applies only to Activity 9 - Engaging.

    "Not being able to express verbally" in the context of Activity 7 applies to people who may have severe speech impediments as a result of things like stroke, oral surgery, deformities etc and for people who have cognitive issues or sensory issues e.g. hearing impaired people who require an interpreter or family member. 
    Thanks very much for confirming that i was in fact correct. I was hoping you or someone with knowledge would see this and confirm that i'm correct. Much appreciated.


    Who is I love cats ?

    Just curious as you said "someone with knowledge"?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,330 Disability Gamechanger
    Most likely someone like myself, who also claims PIP but understands the descriptors and what they mean. Other than that i have no idea.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Do we have an ex DWP PIP case manager amongst us??
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    Yadnad said:
    Do we have an ex DWP PIP case manager amongst us??
    Definitely not a case manager. I used to work for Captia, now I'm back in the NHS.
    Ah yes I see the connection.

    Capita has many tentacles that reach out into many organisations. They don't have such a good reputation in dealing with Civil Servants pay and certainly not their pensions!!
  • djbantiques
    djbantiques Community member Posts: 43 Connected
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".

    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".

    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious.
    In which case we should all pack up and do something different?

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,330 Disability Gamechanger
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".

    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious.
    If those so called "experts" didn't know what the descriptors mean then they wouldn't offer the advice in the first place.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • djbantiques
    djbantiques Community member Posts: 43 Connected
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".

    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious.
    If those so called "experts" didn't know what the descriptors mean then they wouldn't offer the advice in the first place.
    Have a read through and you will see they do.
  • djbantiques
    djbantiques Community member Posts: 43 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".

    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious.
    In which case we should all pack up and do something different?

    Not at all. The support offered on such forums can be invaluable, as is the case on many posts on here.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".
    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious...……………….Not at all. The support offered on such forums can be invaluable, as is the case on many posts on here.


    ????? Confused
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,330 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".
    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious...……………….Not at all. The support offered on such forums can be invaluable, as is the case on many posts on here.


    ????? Confused
    Yes indeed, my thoughts exactly but i forgot to reply and quote. Thanks for that.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • djbantiques
    djbantiques Community member Posts: 43 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    The problem with a forum is there are too many "experts" ready to offer "advice".
    Best bet is try and find a genuine face to face consultation. Even then some of the information is dubious...……………….Not at all. The support offered on such forums can be invaluable, as is the case on many posts on here.


    ????? Confused
    Support and advice are two totally different things.
    Advice is best taken face to face where you can check out the credentials of the advisor and confirm they are qualified to give that advice.
    Support could be anything from anyone, anywhere.
  • Bungalow
    Bungalow Community member Posts: 43 Courageous
    Sorry I agree with Zinty ,, I haven't been long on this site and I do find it hostile sometimes with people arguing over petty things .
     I have been lurking in the back ground as some peeps have said and watched and listened. Probably there are a few assessors on here and don't like what is being said which is probably true. Instead of being  helpful it appears about point scoring on peoples opinions?
     I wont divulge what my background is, my working career I could make certain comments but I refrain from doing so in case I offend . It is not about being right!!!! it is about supporting people who do not understand the system and how you come across and frankly i find this shortcoming sometimes especially with regular users. 

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