Communicating - aids - PIP - OCD

[Deleted User]

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poppy123456

DLA and PIP are different and case law for DLA won't apply for PIP. Can you give some more information, what do you use your phone for?

[Deleted User]

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poppy123456

Activity 7 communicating verbally.

This activity considers a claimant’s ability to communicate verbally with regard to expressive (conveying) communication and receptive (receiving and understanding) communication in one’s native language. This means if you can understand what is being said to you then you won't score any points in this descriptor.

poppy123456

I'm tending to agree with what others have said in your previous posts. It seems like you're trying to fit yourself into these descriptors. You really should concentrate on the descriptors that apply, rather than try to fit yourself into them.

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poppy123456

I'm not sure why CAB advised you this. Activity 7 communicating verbally is about your ability to to understand what is being said to you and what you say to others. If you can understand others and them you then you won't score points for this activity. Please read the link regarding this activity here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

cristobal

I’m reluctant to disagree with the advice given by CAB but I’m still with @poppy123456 and @wilko on this - both must score 0 points. Hand washing because there’s no descriptor for it (and you can wash your hands anyway), and communicating verbally because you clearly can communicate (by using the ‘phone)

It still seems to me (and others) that you seem to be intent on ‘bending’ the descriptors in a manner which will score points. This is not the way to do it and will easily be found out at an assessment. 

Could you not use your time more fruitfully by looking at those descriptors which are more likely to apply - you mention that you have difficulty going out, for example?

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cristobal

@zinty ...I'm a claimant. I hoped that I might be able to use my experience (good and bad) to help others not make some of the mistakes that I did...

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

I'm tending to agree with what others have said in your previous posts. It seems like you're trying to fit yourself into these descriptors. You really should concentrate on the descriptors that apply, rather than try to fit yourself into them.

Good point Poppy, I fear that this situation is not uncommon amongst some claimants.

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Pipquestions2

poppy123456 said:

I'm not sure why CAB advised you this. Activity 7 communicating verbally is about your ability to to understand what is being said to you and what you say to others. If you can understand others and them you then you won't score points for this activity. Please read the link regarding this activity here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

This activity considers a claimant’s ability to communicate verbally with regard to expressive (conveying) communication and receptive (receiving and understanding) communication in one’s native language.

From your own link, so the expressive parts relates to having trouble expressing communication (like OP has), even though he understands it(receptive part), he has trouble actually getting the words out etc because of his disability so he should qualify for this should he not?

It's very easily to understand what you're being told / saying, while still having communication problems. For example due to my social anxiety (Suspected aspergers but failed the test many times..) I struggle massively with communication in person and can't use a phone at all, I've been forced to write things down to my own Dr for example because I'd struggle with getting the words out, despite understanding what I'm trying to say. However I do understand the words, sentence and context of it. I just can't really get the words out and don't know 'how' to speak at times.

poppy123456

No, it's based purely on you being able to understand what is being said to you and what you say to others. What you describe is for activity 9 engaging with others face to face. Two totally different descriptors that mean to totally different things.

poppy123456

zinty said:

  What a hostile forum this is.

I'm sorry you feel this way.

You have been given a lot of good advice by several different people, trying to explain to you what the descriptors mean. What you described above applies to activity 9 engaging with others not activity 7. If you can understand what people are saying to you and they can understand what you say to them then you won't score any points in activity 7.

I also claim PIP and ESA.

Pipquestions2

poppy123456 said:

No, it's based purely on you being able to understand what is being said to you and what you say to others. What you describe is for activity 9 engaging with others face to face. Two totally different descriptors that mean to totally different things.

It's under section 7 though? The very first paragraph actually.

poppy123456

No, sorry it's still also all about understand language and they're 2 totally different descriptors.

poppy123456

Basic verbal information is information conveyed in a simple sentence: “Can I help you?”, “I would like tea please”, “I came home today”, “The time is 3 o’clock”.

Complex verbal information is information conveyed in either more than one sentence or one complicated sentence, for example: “I would like tea please, just a splash of milk and no sugar, as I always have sweeteners with me for when I go out”.

Verbal information can include information that is interpreted from verbal into non-verbal form or vice-versa – for example, speech interpreted through sign language.

Communication support means support from another person trained or experienced in communicating with people with specific communication needs (for example, a sign language interpreter); or someone directly experienced in communicating with the claimant themselves (for example, a family member or carer).

Individuals who cannot express or understand verbal information and would need communication support to do so should receive the appropriate descriptor even if they do not have access to this support. For example, a deaf person who cannot communicate verbally and does not use sign language might need communication support to support them in another way even if they do not routinely have such help.

Lip reading is not considered an acceptable way to interpret verbal communication.

Note: The ability to remember and retain information is not within the scope of this activity e.g. relevant to those with dementia or learning disabilities.

Taken from this link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Pipquestions2

poppy123456 said:

No, sorry it's still also all about understand language and they're 2 totally different descriptors.

How can you say that when the gov website specifically says it can be about expressing and also understanding?

Either you're wrong, or the government website is wrong, and if it's the government website you could make a case for it regardless based off that, until they correct it. But given how many times these types of things are proof read to ensure things like this don't actually happen, and how many times it's repeated in one way or another that having trouble to express/verbally communicate is mentioned I'm inclined to believe problems expressing also gains you points for 7 and you're getting mixed up somewhere.

Section 7 states " If the claimant couldn’t make themselves understood and had to resort to hand gestures and writing notes this would not be to an acceptable standard."

"Individuals who cannot express or understand verbal information and would need communication support to do so should receive the appropriate descriptor even if they do not have access to this support"

- not being able to express verbally should also count as making themselves understood - because you can't understand silence/mutism. If I walk into my Doctors for example and can't get the words out, I'm not making myself understood and she won't be able to help me. If you cannot communicate properly that means you either need to write it down, or have someone help you, this would come under the examples they give as not to an acceptable standard.

Under section 9, it doesn't even actually say anything about expressing verbally. That part actually seems more directed to the understanding and how you react around people.

"This part, exclusively,clearly listed and repeated multiple times under section 7, does not apply to section 7 and is not took into consideration when awarding points for this section." You don't see how that sounds absolutely ridiculous?

Yadnad

Why does this all matter? Why worry what the 'hidden' meanings behind a descriptor are.
Just explain what you have difficulties with and then let the DWP worry about whether they fit or not.
Grief, I am also confused as to what the descriptors could mean but why bother - you are not the one making the decisions.

I explained in my words what my difficulties are, then I looked at the descriptors and thought - yes I could fall into that one. However the assessor and the DWP didn't agree. I won my first two appeals at MR stage based entirely on written evidence from reputable medical sources that (a) I could not physically walk more than 20 metres - as tested in hospital) (b) the aids I had were needed and not a question of choice plus a couple of other provable issues.

I did not try to work out if what my problems were could be shoe horned into a descriptor - a claimant is not asked or expected to do that.