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ATOS report

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  • Bungalow
    Bungalow Community member Posts: 43 Courageous
    Benistmonk ,, that is shocking I hadn't realised you can go round and round in a system that's clearly not working like this : 
  • Benistmonk
    Benistmonk Community member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Bungalow said:
    Benistmonk ,, that is shocking I hadn't realised you can go round and round in a system that's clearly not working like this : 
    Apparently there is no limit as to how many times or how often the DWP can have you assessed. I am living proof of that fact, so yes, you can be hauled in any time the DWP feels like it.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger

    My daughter has an invisible condition, ASD, learning disability and social anxiety disorder of childhood. She claims Enhanced for both. I also personally know 2 other people that have mental health issues, that claim PIP and ESA. Lots of people with invisible conditions claim them without any problems at all.

    It must be severe enough to be visible then, otherwise she wouldn't get a penny.

    No, it's invisible. To look at her you'd think nothing was wrong. Not sure why you think people with these conditions won't receive a penny. You're so far from the truth.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Bungalow said:
    Benistmonk ,, that is shocking I hadn't realised you can go round and round in a system that's clearly not working like this : 
    Apparently there is no limit as to how many times or how often the DWP can have you assessed. I am living proof of that fact, so yes, you can be hauled in any time the DWP feels like it.
    Absolutely correct. I was 70 when I had the results last year of my 3rd re-assessment for PIP which again came back 0 points - just like the previous two.
    At that point I gave up with PIP and did not appeal.
    My thoughts are like just like you are hearing about - I have always had 3 year awards, but to be re-assessed after 2 years. On that basis I would be looking forward to having assessments every other year until I die.
    On the assumption that I actually peg it when I am 90, that would mean a further 10 more reassessments, 10 possible failures and 10 further fights to get what I am entitled to.
  • djbantiques
    djbantiques Community member Posts: 43 Connected
    Bungalow said:
    Benistmonk ,, that is shocking I hadn't realised you can go round and round in a system that's clearly not working like this : 
    Apparently there is no limit as to how many times or how often the DWP can have you assessed. I am living proof of that fact, so yes, you can be hauled in any time the DWP feels like it.
    The best course of action is to ask for a longer award.
  • Benistmonk
    Benistmonk Community member Posts: 343 Pioneering

    My daughter has an invisible condition, ASD, learning disability and social anxiety disorder of childhood. She claims Enhanced for both. I also personally know 2 other people that have mental health issues, that claim PIP and ESA. Lots of people with invisible conditions claim them without any problems at all.

    It must be severe enough to be visible then, otherwise she wouldn't get a penny.

    No, it's invisible. To look at her you'd think nothing was wrong. Not sure why you think people with these conditions won't receive a penny. You're so far from the truth.
    It must be evident when you speak to her, or are you going to tell me she sounds normal as well. That is what I mean by visible, it would become immediately apparent to anyone speaking to her that something is wrong.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes she speaks normally but what difference does that make? Like i said to look at her, you'd think there's nothing wrong. Spend just 30 minutes with her and you'll soon begin to notice things aren't as they first seemed.

    Autism assessment report, Educational health care plan, learning disability report, social services care plan, all prove her conditions, the way she's affected. what she can and can't do, the help and support she needs every single day of her life.

    Two of these reports come from the community mental health team, the best evidence you can give because it states exactly how they are affected.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Benistmonk
    Benistmonk Community member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Bungalow said:
    Benistmonk ,, that is shocking I hadn't realised you can go round and round in a system that's clearly not working like this : 
    Apparently there is no limit as to how many times or how often the DWP can have you assessed. I am living proof of that fact, so yes, you can be hauled in any time the DWP feels like it.
    The best course of action is to ask for a longer award.
    The way I see it is better to accept what you are given by the FTT. Of course I could appeal to UT and risk losing the original award, that's why I don't take it further.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    Bungalow said:
    Benistmonk ,, that is shocking I hadn't realised you can go round and round in a system that's clearly not working like this : 
    Apparently there is no limit as to how many times or how often the DWP can have you assessed. I am living proof of that fact, so yes, you can be hauled in any time the DWP feels like it.
    The best course of action is to ask for a longer award.
    You can ask and much the same as asking your bank for an interest free loan of £1m but you will most likely not get it.

    The decision as to the points to be awarded and the length of the award rests entirely with the DWP case manager and is based on what the assessor recommends.

    There is no reason however that once you get the award letter and you disagree with the length of the award you can ask for a MR and if that doesn't change it appeal to the Tribunal.
    You have to remember that it is for you to present evidence both orally and in written form that on the balance of probabilities you should be given a longer award period. What that evidence could be I have no idea and wouldn't know where to start to find it hence why I could not challenge my award period - the award yes but not the length of it. 
    Very few people actually challenge the length and just accept what they are given.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    Bungalow said:
    1.6m are being reviewed under mental health claims for PIP I think that say's it all about the system for mental health . 
    They are being reviewed because the criteria was changed due to complaints about how the descriptors were applied to mental health.

    What that that means going forward is that anyone with a mental health condition will have to prove they suffer from ‘overwhelming psychological distress’ in order to satisfy a lot of the mental health descriptors. That is a hard thing to prove. If you are able to turn up at assessment and get through it then the OPD descriptors are unlike to apply  to you. Just feeling anxious or having the odd panic attack wont score anymore.

    This means that where a sympathetic assessor would score someone a B for Activity 9 and 11, they now have to score them an A unless there is hard evidence of OPD to score them higher.
    If you want to read the full facts of the High Court decision:

    https://www.inclusionlondon.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/171221-Scanned-version-of-judgment.pdf
  • Bungalow
    Bungalow Community member Posts: 43 Courageous
    Yes that was part of it, the other factors were the mismanagement of the PIP process.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Bungalow said:
    Yes that was part of it, the other factors were the mismanagement of the PIP process.
    There was no mismanagement. An Upper Tribunal decided that the descriptor should include for those who suffer mental health. It was clear that this had never been the intent when the PIP regulations were made. Following that case it would leave the gates wide open for 10,000's of claimants to claim where previously everybody accepted that they couldn't. So to close that open gate the government brought in further regulations to close it tight.

    Then the High Court got involved and said that the government were wrong to introduce this new amendment. 

    Like what happened with DLA, courts are now intent in defining what the law says in ways that it was never intended to operate. As soon as the DWP try to block these court rulings to take it all back to what the original intention of what PIP was everybody kicks off.  

    Personally I don't like PIP and I don't like hearing that the courts are able to change what the original legislation was. You might as well abolish democracy and Westminster and just let the courts decide how they would want to assess claimants for a disability based benefit.
  • Benistmonk
    Benistmonk Community member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    The government is so determined to make UC work that they don't care about breaking existing laws to achieve that goal. So of course the courts are going to pull them up when they see laws that contradict and are at odds with previous rulings, that is the job of the courts, to test laws and make sure they are legal.

    That's why we have an appeals process to argue with the way the law is applied, has it been done correctly or not and so on. Still doesn't stop the DWP from moving the goalposts whenever they feel like it, but at least it gives us peasants half a chance at getting some form of justice. 
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    I agree where the courts rule on making sure that whatever the law says it is upheld.
    But to go that one step further and try to amend/alter the law is ridiculous.This is what the Upper Tribunal did - they changed the way a descriptor should be read. The Government tried to step in and block that change of terminology so as to preserve what was meant when the Act was enacted.

    This is what happened with DLA. When you look back at who was said to be entitled to the benefit in 1992 and look how it had been changed by subsequent courts it became unworkable. 
  • Benistmonk
    Benistmonk Community member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    I don't think judges can alter the law. Parliament makes the law, judges have to interpret what the law means. Of course if the government has screwed up, like they have here, they can always alter the law to say exactly what they mean. 
  • STANDUPOAP
    STANDUPOAP Posts: 60 Connected
    What to include with this form.
    You MUST include a copy of the MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION NOTICE which shows the decision you are appealing against . You do not need to include evidence / information you have sent to DWP as they will send it to us as part of their response.-----------  Now this is what I.m talking about. The courts are saying the DWP will not withhold any evidence / or information you have already sent. Why would the Courts say this, are they supposed to be impartial? My SSCS1 form was left out by DWP.  My MP xxxxxxxx sent a letter to the Courts asking if my SSCS1 was not in my defence papers and correspondence and if it should have been? Here is part of the letter I received two days ago from my MP that was sent to him from xxxxxxxxxx,Clerk to the Tribunal, Customer Contact Team, Birmingham Administrative Support Centre (ASC) 
    SSCS1 FORM
    I note from xxxxxxxxxxxx email that he is concerned that the SSCS1 has not been included. I've checked the appeal papers and can confirm we have the SSCS1 form in her appeal file, but the form was not part of the Department for Work and Pensions (dwp) submission, when it should be. I have now added a copy as part of her appeal bundle and sent xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa copy on 25 January 2019. 
    So as i said if they (DWP) can leave out information as they did. How can the Courts tell you no need to include evidence/ information. 
    And now all the SSCS1 forms ever filled by PIP claimants will need to be reassessed due to this Error of LAW.?  or whatever?
    Not sure how this is going to get sorted, I feel because the Courts had our SSCS1 form same time as DWP. Then 6 weeks later the dwp send my wife and Courts their response, how come the Courts didn't notice this?  Other Question. What would have happened in Court when we used or related to or SSCS1 form. Would this be allowed? error of Law? When xxxxxxxxsays he has added a copy to her bundle, why? We sent the Courts the SSCS1 copy by registered post in October 2018. Other Question. He makes no mention nor does my MP that they have reported this to DWP ?  
    Report this to you MP they could have left out evidence / information in your case, when form by Courts states the DWP  will not leave out information. How has the Courts allowed to make this Statement on this Form? It's not true?

  • STANDUPOAP
    STANDUPOAP Posts: 60 Connected
    RickyMR.
    Early days for you at moment, but advice i'd give, do as I did. Every piece of information you got or sent, COPY it. Registered mail post it. Don't allow them to leave out crucial evidence / information as they did in my wife's appeal. And lastly GOOD LUCK MATE STAY STRONG.
  • Benistmonk
    Benistmonk Community member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Hi Standupoap, why would the DWP have your SSCS1 appeal form?

    When you receive the MR letter, it is up to you to send the SSCS1 and MR to the tribunal service. 
  • STANDUPOAP
    STANDUPOAP Posts: 60 Connected
    Because I sent them a copy of SSCS1 form within the 28 day period and the form states they will send all to me and the Courts
    The Courts had a copy I sent them same time I sent DWP.
     The Courts say in letter to my MP the DWP should have included the SSCS1 form as part of my information / evidence.. This DWP bundle 100 page in my case, did not have the SSCS1 form. as the Courts states it would. Which is my point exactly.
  • STANDUPOAP
    STANDUPOAP Posts: 60 Connected
    Thanks for your reply Benistmonk, appreciated.

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