Does anyone else have any experience of not having any up to date medical evidence? - Page 2 — Scope | Disability forum
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Does anyone else have any experience of not having any up to date medical evidence?

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Comments

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    You are right but the groundwork for it was carried out by the previous Labour administration as ESA was such a great Labour success PIP should follow suit.
  • stree
    stree Community member Posts: 41 Courageous
    I dread to think what would really happen to benefits and the cost of living if this current labour mob got in power......Without fail Labour spend everyone elses money and disappear when it has run out.
  • Bungalow
    Bungalow Community member Posts: 43 Courageous
    edited February 2019
    The original design of PIP was changed before it was presented in parliament by the Conservatives, lets face it Liberal were just puppets in the decision .
  • Bungalow
    Bungalow Community member Posts: 43 Courageous
    Don't get me started stree Labour without a leader is a waste of time at the moment they have an idiot far too left wing . I am ashamed to say I always voted  Labour now its the raving looney party no faith in any of it anymore lol :smile:
  • stree
    stree Community member Posts: 41 Courageous
    That about sums it up Bungalow, real shame that "real" labour has been taken over by this sorry shambles.........But they lost my vote after Bliar........and no better after Brown then Milliband,( The Bacon on or the Banana one)
    Where are the old heavyweights?
  • stree
    stree Community member Posts: 41 Courageous
    Anyway, thread has got sidetracked............Old evidence and what to do?
    What I find strange is that HCPs have the DWP guide to medical conditions  and it states there when a condition is not curable, reversible and chronic.common sense would dictate that some conditions are bound to be worse after a few years since last assessment.............For example,, I have very  severe COPD and am now on what they call maximised meds..............and only see GP or Consultant  every 6 months or so.......Nothing else they could do or prescribe so not much point taking up their time...But of course, this means very scarce paperwork...............But if the HCP were to refer to the A-Z guide, all would become clear.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    For a start since when do the assessors actually follow what is laid down in their guidance manual?
    Secondly the guide to medical conditions was for DLA and AA. It has no purpose in deciding on PIP awards or the length of the award. That guide will now be covered in dust only to be brought out for Attendance Allowance claims as and when they arise.
    The HCP's who assess for PIP aren't interested in conditions and what may or may not happen to a claimant that has them. Their only job is to sit in judgement as to if the impact of those conditions claimed are reasonable and whether they are true and not exaggerated. Once that has been established they consider the descriptors to see if any fit that impact.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    Do any of you know if the DWP will ever contact your GP for further information (if requested they do so in MR)? I am aware the chances are low and might not happen, but is GP contact 100% made by the assessor or is there a chance that the DWP will contact also?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,358 Disability Gamechanger
    If they are contacted then it will be the HCP that does it and not DWP.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    If they are contacted then it will be the HCP that does it and not DWP.
    Well that's a bit **** - like OP I had trouble with 'up to date' evidence except for my recent hospital stint which could only really be applied to one descriptor (mixing with people). Asked my GP for a letter so that I could send it off with my MR as she knows how it effects me etc and she said there was no point as they would contact her anyways. Which obviously I knew was wrong from what you've posted. Instead I just mentioned what she said & wrote to contact my GP on the MR.

    Seen her yesterday and asked if PIP contacted her as I scored 0 points so I'm apparently perfect, she said no, but they usually send a long form then asked if I said about my troubles going out etc. She seemed kind of shocked that I scored 0 points to be honest.

    Now I guess it just seems like my only hope is letters from my GP mentioning my troubles that are several years old are good enough, or that they send my form back to a HCP due to the new evidence included but I'm not holding my hopes up for that.

    Given the discussion we had in the other thread re communication I don't think I'm going to get PIP anyways any more to be honest. My only chance could be the 10 points for planning a journey now I think which I definitely think I should be getting but since my assessor lied about absolutely everything and the only 'evidence' i have regarding this is from 2014 I think, I don't have high hopes. I can't figure out wether I should be getting 4 or 8 points for mixing with people - having social support does help but I've still gone off the rails even with social support & the part about risk of harm to other people can come into play at times (I don't think I would harm them but they do get that impression a lot, so I guess the risk is there from an outside perspective?)
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,358 Disability Gamechanger
    It's rare for them to send your report back to the HCP at this stage. As only 18% of MR decisions change then expect to have to take it to Tribunal.

    To score 8 points for engaging with others then this will need to apply to you.

    the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person

    Overwhelming psychological distress means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment which results in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person is unable to function. This may be as a direct result of a mental health condition, or as a result of another disability such as cognitive or developmental impairment.

    Otherwise it's 4 points for needing social support, providing you need support when being with others.

    Are you thinking 10 points for descriptor D or E? For E then going out once would mean that you won't qualify for this (night time doesn't apply)

    For D Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. What about familiar journey's do you need someone with you for those?

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    MSI Group now ? More firms looking to get in on the DWP "Assessment" scam 38k the job advert days it all fed up with NHS hours and stuff come and work for us..... some of the jobs on offer 40k how much money is wasted on so called PIP Assessments ? Advert should read souless uncaring fiends need only apply ...  job anyone ...

    https://www.msigroupltd.com/view-job/physiotherapy/physio-functional-assessor-bootle-38-000pa-plus-package/j6669/

    If the answer is yes to all these questions then MSI might just have the ideal role for you. We are currently recruiting in Bootle for qualified Physiotherapist's who are looking to put their training and skills to use in a different role.

    The role of a Functional Assessor offers the day to day variety, the one to one interaction and the clinical expertise of a normal Physiotherapist role without the ever present threat of cuts, awkward shift patterns and the feeling of being overworked and underpaid

    This I just love.
    Looking for Physios to put their training, skills and clinical expertise in a different role? Great for someone who would have medical issues that would normally see a Physio in a hospital setting. But where in all of the above does it state that they will also be assessing mental health matters?

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    If they are contacted then it will be the HCP that does it and not DWP.


    That's on the assumption that the claimant has actually put the GP's details on the PIP2 as it is not a requirement of making a claim. Some people can be quite shy in giving that sort of information out - much like the request for telephone numbers - no one really knows what happens to the information given to the DWP.

    Additionally they are supposed to ask for the GP's details when making the initial phone call to start off a PIP claim - some do, some don't.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger

    Hi Poppy

    'the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person'


    Anybody with those issues shouldn't be attending a face to face assessment or even completing a PIP2 - they would be locked away under Section under the Mental Health Act!  I know I was!

  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    It's rare for them to send your report back to the HCP at this stage. As only 18% of MR decisions change then expect to have to take it to Tribunal.

    To score 8 points for engaging with others then this will need to apply to you.

    the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person

    Overwhelming psychological distress means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment which results in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person is unable to function. This may be as a direct result of a mental health condition, or as a result of another disability such as cognitive or developmental impairment.

    Otherwise it's 4 points for needing social support, providing you need support when being with others.

    Are you thinking 10 points for descriptor D or E? For E then going out once would mean that you won't qualify for this (night time doesn't apply)

    For D Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. What about familiar journey's do you need someone with you for those?

    4 or 8 points depends on the day, situation..etc.. I'm assuming I'll get 4 points for this, was reliant on getting 4 from communication too for the standard living allowance but I'm thinking I won't be getting that either after our last  discussion.

    Now you've actually got me second guessing myself on the going out part also. I can't go out at all on my own no matter where to even if it's to the Doctors which is literally a minute away, infact I can't even sit in our own garden. I either go with my mum or have my Dad come to the house and take me down in the car. Now I'm thinking I'll probably end up with 4 points here.. actually depending how literally that means I'm not even sure if I'd get 4 points for that. I don't need 'prompted' (well actually I might sometimes, depends how literally this is to be took) I just can't do it alone.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,358 Disability Gamechanger

    4 or 8 points depends on the day, situation..etc.. I'm assuming I'll get 4 points for this, was reliant on getting 4 from communication too for the standard living allowance but I'm thinking I won't be getting that either after our last  discussion.

    Now you've actually got me second guessing myself on the going out part also. I can't go out at all on my own no matter where to even if it's to the Doctors which is literally a minute away, infact I can't even sit in our own garden. I either go with my mum or have my Dad come to the house and take me down in the car. Now I'm thinking I'll probably end up with 4 points here.. actually depending how literally that means I'm not even sure if I'd get 4 points for that. I don't need 'prompted' (well actually I might sometimes, depends how literally this is to be took) I just can't do it alone.
    If you don't go anywhere alone then you should be looking at descriptor f not anything else. Why do you think the other descriptors may apply? You'll need to give your reasons why you can't go out alone on a familiar journey, what would happen if you did go out alone? Give a few examples of what happens when you do or if you attempted to do this activity alone.

    May i ask if you've got any help with your claim at all? It seems like you're struggling to understand the descriptors fully and this isn't going to help your Tribunal preparation. https://advicelocal.uk/

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering

    4 or 8 points depends on the day, situation..etc.. I'm assuming I'll get 4 points for this, was reliant on getting 4 from communication too for the standard living allowance but I'm thinking I won't be getting that either after our last  discussion.

    Now you've actually got me second guessing myself on the going out part also. I can't go out at all on my own no matter where to even if it's to the Doctors which is literally a minute away, infact I can't even sit in our own garden. I either go with my mum or have my Dad come to the house and take me down in the car. Now I'm thinking I'll probably end up with 4 points here.. actually depending how literally that means I'm not even sure if I'd get 4 points for that. I don't need 'prompted' (well actually I might sometimes, depends how literally this is to be took) I just can't do it alone.
    If you don't go anywhere alone then you should be looking at descriptor f not anything else. Why do you think the other descriptors may apply? You'll need to give your reasons why you can't go out alone on a familiar journey, what would happen if you did go out alone? Give a few examples of what happens when you do or if you attempted to do this activity alone.

    May i ask if you've got any help with your claim at all? It seems like you're struggling to understand the descriptors fully and this isn't going to help your Tribunal preparation. https://advicelocal.uk/

    I don't think F applies to me because of the new one that related to mental health (e), my problems is more of a mix between e&f but doesn't fit either of them exactly - half of e, half of f fits me, my assessor put a lot of emphasis on asking if I got lost, would I know the way home (directions). Knowing where / how to follow a journey and going out alone are two completely different things also I guess the fact enhanced rate mobility seems a bit ridiculous considering I can walk etc..



    Now I could be wrong but if d, f take anxiety into consideration like you seem to be implying - there isn't much point in e? and if they take anxiety into consideration, e doesn't make much sense to be on 10 points when you're worse off than f which gives you 12 points. b and e seem to be the only ones relating to anxiety while the others are relating to other problems?

    No I didn't get help. Don't have anyone that can help me, getting face to face help would be too much for me ( same reason i will be doing paper tribunal which i know you're gonna scold me for but I won't be able to show up at all so i'll take my low chances..) My CPN was going to help me years ago but they passed my care back to my GP so I never saw him again thus I never applied until recently. I just filled it out myself and pretty much sent it back blank like what I have done with my ESA for the past 10~ years which I think was a mistake aswell but My problems are easier to see in person than on paper, but as my assessor lied about everything it's put me in a difficult position. I have tried to explain it better and wrote more out in a MR but I didn't expect to have to get to this point and I'm not particularly great at explaining myself either....Doesn't help that the assessor wasn't too interested in what my mum had to say either who is better at explaining than I am.

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