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PIP descriptors

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Comments

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    You will probably have to demonstrate that all of these aids have been acquired for need and not for choice.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    The aids were provided via a occupational therapist, I also have regular safety checks on the bath lift from the company, I will get proof of this, thanks for the warning.
  • minniemoo
    minniemoo Community member Posts: 51 Courageous
    Your very your very welcome ?
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    worried33 said:
    The aids were provided via a occupational therapist, I also have regular safety checks on the bath lift from the company, I will get proof of this, thanks for the warning.
    So do I. They check the chair about once a year. All of my equipment came via Social Services. However even that being the case the assessor and agreed by the DWP that the aids I have were not based on need but on choice. Their opinion regarding the bath chair for example was that I am able to get into and out of an un-adapted bath as evidenced by the MSE carried out at the assessment centre - legs and arms were fully functional with sufficient strength being observed which is quite true. What was never tested was my back and hips which I cannot prove to be the root cause of my difficulties.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    Well if they decide to be that awkward I will most definitely take silly points like that to tribunal, I mean any awkward assessor could rule that every single person in theory has aids by choice, I mean you can choose to not have a bath right and as such not have the aids, this just seems a silly and petty way to deny people benefits.

    So if you consider I can choose to not have a bath, I suppose it could be considered its by choice.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    worried33 said:
    Well if they decide to be that awkward I will most definitely take silly points like that to tribunal, I mean any awkward assessor could rule that every single person in theory has aids by choice, I mean you can choose to not have a bath right and as such not have the aids, this just seems a silly and petty way to deny people benefits.

    So if you consider I can choose to not have a bath, I suppose it could be considered its by choice.
    That's not what the assessor said.
    There was no dispute that the aids exist, the assessor agreed with that. But, they didn't believe that I cannot get into and out of an unadapted bath. They reported that there was nothing wrong with my legs and arms so no reason why I need that aid. To put it simply the bath aid was provided because it made things easier for me to have it - it was a choice not a physical necessity.


  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    After what happened on my DLA home visit I am not surprised I guess, I hoped you appealed and won the appeal.

    Did you do that?

    My GP has agreed to provide what evidence is necessary in "her own words".

    I am aware that may well get ignored, after all, if I have a f2f it will mean they not prepared to take mine and the GPs word for it.

    Do claimants have the option for a recorded assessment on PIP?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,318 Disability Gamechanger

    Taken from the above link and all assessments are the same, whether it's ESA or PIP.

    Should you wish, you may use your own equipment to record the face-to-face consultation. This must be undertaken in line with the following DWP rules:

    • You need to notify us before your appointment that you will like to record your assessment by calling our Enquiry Centre on 0808 1788 114.
    • You will need to provide your own audio-recording equipment. Your recording equipment must be able to produce two identical copies of the recording at the end of the assessment, either on audio cassette or CD. Mobile phones and laptops are not suitable mediums for recording assessments.
    • You will need to give one copy of the recording to the assessor, at the end of the appointment.
    • You will need to sign an agreement that sets out what you are and are not allowed to do with the recording.
    • We will retain a copy of the recording for a maximum of 14 months, at which point it will be destroyed. We do not pass on the recordings to the DWP and they are not used in determining your entitlement or award.
    • Should you attempt to record the assessment without having contact us first and agreeing to the above guidelines, then your assessment is likely to be stopped and we may return your case to the DWP.



    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    Interesting, for ESA its different, on ESA they supply the equipment.  Thanks.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,318 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes they will record an ESA assessment, if you ask. You may have to wait longer for the assessment though. You can also record it yourself with permission and the same rules apply above, if you do. They don't record PIP assessments for you.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes they will record an ESA assessment, if you ask. You may have to wait longer for the assessment though. You can also record it yourself with permission and the same rules apply above, if you do. They don't record PIP assessments for you.
    And why should they? Just imagine having to fund enough recorders for every assessing centre and for every assessor, every day. Who would you think would pick up the tab for that lot - yes us the taxpayers!
  • minniemoo
    minniemoo Community member Posts: 51 Courageous
    @Yadnad I understand what your saying but unfortunately because of a lot of lies that are written by the assessor (not all) this may have to be the way forward it happened to me they came into my home and the blaintant lies that where written unbelievable !! 
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    Yes they will record an ESA assessment, if you ask. You may have to wait longer for the assessment though. You can also record it yourself with permission and the same rules apply above, if you do. They don't record PIP assessments for you.
    And why should they? Just imagine having to fund enough recorders for every assessing centre and for every assessor, every day. Who would you think would pick up the tab for that lot - yes us the taxpayers!
    Why should they?

    For quality control. How can they check to see whether the assessor is good/bad, what their interview technique is like, whether they need further training, if they don't have a recording of the interview?

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    cristobal said:



    Why should they?

    For quality control. How can they check to see whether the assessor is good/bad, what their interview technique is like, whether they need further training, if they don't have a recording of the interview?
    If you are seriously suggesting that assessors are recorded at every assessment I doubt that many would want to work under those conditions. There has to be trust between employer and employee.
     
  • minniemoo
    minniemoo Community member Posts: 51 Courageous
    It’s nothing new anyway any call centre , council, banks, inc DWP , all live calls are recorded for quality call monitoring that can be used in a training environment or to be used as proof of what has been said face to face is no different 
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    @yadnad ..going slightly off-topic here for which I apologise...

    It is a serious suggestion, based on my experience in a previous employment where on occasions I had to QC interviews.
    When you say "under those conditions" you'll find that most people nowadays aren't bothered about being tape recorded - it's just the modern way and not a question of trust at all. Monitoring happens in a lot of jobs.

    Prior to tape recording the only other option was to sit in on the interview...


  • STANDUPOAP
    STANDUPOAP Posts: 60 Connected
    Sorry, but that's not great advice to base filling out the form on your worst day.  PIP isn't about your worst days. It's how you are 50% of the time based on a 12 month period.

    If someone fills out their form based on their worst day and when it comes to their face to face assessment they're having one of their good days then the HCP will immediately see through this and think "well if that's their bad day, they can't be as bad as they said they were"

    Always tell the truth and nothing more.
    So negative
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,318 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry, but that's not great advice to base filling out the form on your worst day.  PIP isn't about your worst days. It's how you are 50% of the time based on a 12 month period.

    If someone fills out their form based on their worst day and when it comes to their face to face assessment they're having one of their good days then the HCP will immediately see through this and think "well if that's their bad day, they can't be as bad as they said they were"

    Always tell the truth and nothing more.
    So negative
    Would you like to give some reasons why my comment was in your opinion, so negative?

    I claim benefits myself, the advice i give here comes from my heart and from my own personal experiences in dealing with claiming benefits myself for multiple years. I have researched for years to gain the knowledge i now have and i would never knowingly give any incorrect or negative advice.

    My advice in my post still stands, never ever fill out a form or attend a face to face assessment and base it on your worst day!
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,318 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:

    Poppy is far from negative. She is one of the few people who always provides sound and regular advice based on fact and not popular opinion. She is always supportive so perhaps you may wish to rethink your opinion, especially as your own posts have been reported many times for aggression and incoherence.
    @ilovecats thank you very much for your support, much appreciated!!
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    cristobal said:
    @yadnad ..going slightly off-topic here for which I apologise...

    It is a serious suggestion, based on my experience in a previous employment where on occasions I had to QC interviews.
    When you say "under those conditions" you'll find that most people nowadays aren't bothered about being tape recorded - it's just the modern way and not a question of trust at all. Monitoring happens in a lot of jobs.

    Prior to tape recording the only other option was to sit in on the interview...

    For a start, the ESA assessments were only available to be recorded for the benefit of the claimant - it was never the case that it was used to QC the interviewer. The argument being put forward here is that the recording of assessments is being suggested to control in some way what the assessor does. Are we actually wanting the assessment to be recorded and then audited only to make sure that the assessor does their job properly? If that is the case where is the autonomous position? The assessor much like the DWP decision maker will not be able to form opinion or assumption on anything.

    My last posting within the Civil Service was to the Official Receiver's office as an examiner.

    At no time was it ever suggested that whilst interviewing individuals my position was subject to QC. Nothing was ever recorded - and still isn't to this day as I worked under the Perjury Act. My report was my report - I recorded what I believed was said and as such I could never be challenged on a QC basis. In fact it was prima facia evidence and as such was the backbone of any court proceedings as I had the individual sign every sheet of the written statement stating that the contents were the whole truth.

    If it was suggested that I had to be watched, listened to then you might as well have employed somebody less senior - my job was to extract the truth in a legal manner and record what I believed was being said.

    As in the case of a PIP assessment 90% of what is recorded by the assessor will be assumption based on what has been said, medical knowledge and intuition. If you want to go the whole hog and carry out a full investigation in order to avoid assumptions then the claimant should be made aware that interviews lasting 4+ hours would not be unusual. My longest was 6 hours without a break until I had the truth.

    The recording for QC purposes of an assessor would and should never happen - you will be taking away the very real reason why they are employed in the first place.

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