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A general question for all claimants.

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Threesticks
Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
in PIP, DLA, and AA
I have recently been posting on another thread.I was prompted by @cristobal , to put this question to members who've been on any of theses benefits, PIP, DLA, AA and UC. I was made aware they are four very different benefits and accept that fact. However, all benefits are overseen by the DWP.

My question is this. If you have been put on this new benefit system from another, such as ESA etc, are you better off or worse off ? I have my own opinion on this, but that's all I have is my opinion, I need facts. Thank you in anticipation.
If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • wilko
    wilko Community member Posts: 2,458 Disability Gamechanger
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    Reading posts on scope it appears that’s those claiming DLA and migrated to PIP a lot of claimants have their original DLA award down graded when they have to claim PIP and have to go through the MR and on to a tribunal hearing. Some of the cases are down graded with good reason as the assessment descriptors are different between the two benefits and may feel they should get the same award when migrated, and sadly a lot are down graded and have their award reinstated at a much later date having to Perdue their claim to a tribunal hearing.
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    @wilco, that sounds to me, they are ALL worse off . I'm waiting for anyone who informs me, they are better off on this new system. 
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,978 Disability Gamechanger
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    DLA and PIP are different. Those that claimed DLA may not be entitled to to PIP. You can have a disability but if the descriptors don't apply to you, you won't score the points for an award.

    For UC then it depends on the persons circumstances. Some are worse off, some are actually better off believe it or not. The problem with UC is because it pays monthly then people look at the figures, compare it to what they were claiming previously on the old benefits and automatically think they're worse off. This isn't always the case, if they worked out what they were claiming as a monthly figure previously and i mean worked it out correctly then they maybe surprised. The only ones that were really worse off were those that transferred from ESA to UC and lost the severe disability premium. This doesn't mean i agree with UC because i don't.

    As previously advised, AA is different and is for those aged 65 and over. Those aged 65 and over can't claim UC because it's a working age benefit.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    But @poppy123456 they all come under the new DWP benefit system. What I'm asking, is anyone better off under their new system. I've spoken with all the disabled people I know and only one has told me they are better off. The others have said they are worse off and one had to move home because of the bedroom Tax.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
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    I did see someone on another forum say that he had switched from DLA to PIP and that he was better off.
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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,978 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm still standing by my reply. The bedroom tax came out in 2013 and only affects those in social housing if you're under pension age.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    Sorry @poppy123456 I don't see your point. Are you saying all benefits don't come under DWP operation ? And are you better off or not ? I think, no matter what your age is, if you lose your home I'd say you were worse off wouldn't you ?
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,978 Disability Gamechanger
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    They are DWP, except housing benefit as that's local council and nothing to do with DWP.

    I haven't switched to UC, i still claim ESA and i'm except from claiming UC at the moment because i claim severe disability premium.

    I don't understand why you can't see my point. Income Related ESA/JSA, Income Support, housing benefit and tax credits were/are the old legacy benefits. UC has replaced them all. Not everyone has moved to UC yet.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    @poppy123456, I don't see your point, because it's not answering my simple question, Are you better off or worse off. As I said in the OP, I was made aware of the differences in another post and except that.  
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,978 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm not better or worse off because i still claim ESA. I think you're misunderstanding something here.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
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    I see what @poppy123456 is saying, she's trying to tell you that she's not switched to UC, she's still on ESA so she's no better or worse off, same as me atm really, I'm still on ESA.
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    @poppy123456 , I'm not misunderstanding anything. I appreciate in your situation it's not a issue for you. I'm asking the people who have had to move over to the new DWP system, that question, worse off or better off is all .
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • April2018mom
    April2018mom Posts: 2,882 Disability Gamechanger
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    To answer your question I applied for DLA last year for DS. We started claiming UC a couple of years ago. I would look at information on all the benefits. I also claim ESA for myself too. Talk to your social worker if you need help filling out the paperwork or feel free to message me if you have any other questions. 
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    April2018mom said:
    To answer your question I applied for DLA last year for DS. We started claiming UC a couple of years ago. I would look at information on all the benefits. I also claim ESA for myself too. Talk to your social worker if you need help filling out the paperwork or feel free to message me if you have any other questions. 
    You're not answering my question though, are you better off or not ? I have no need of a Social worker and don't have one. I've asked a simple question and get a totally different response to what I thought I would get.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,978 Disability Gamechanger
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    Not everyone can answer the question because not everyone has changed from the old benefit system to UC or from DLA to PIP.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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  • Topkitten
    Topkitten Community member Posts: 1,285 Pioneering
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    I have been on Incapacity Benefit, ESA, DLA and PIP over the years and none of them makes much sense and the monetary value can vary wildly but at least when I went from IB to ESA things got a lot better. Qualifying for DLA / PIP though are the ones that make the biggest difference as so many optional things relate to them.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
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  • atlas46
    atlas46 Community member Posts: 826 Pioneering
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    Hi

    Look up the Office of Budget Responsibilities Jan 2019 report on PIP.

    The then government expected to complete the roll out of PIP by 2016 and make 20% savings.

    By 2017/18 PIP is costing 20% more than DLA.

    The roll out is now set for completion by 2023!

    I got more for PIP, when I moved from DLA, nearly £1,500 pa.

    Hope this helps with your research.
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
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    poppy123456 said:
    Not everyone can answer the question because not everyone has changed from the old benefit system to UC or from DLA to PIP.
    Yes thanks @poppy123456, I got that. But the OP does say.
    If you have been put on this new benefit system from another, such as ESA etc, are you better off or worse off.

    I don't understand the confusion.

    atlas46 said:
    Hi

    Look up the Office of Budget Responsibilities Jan 2019 report on PIP.

    The then government expected to complete the roll out of PIP by 2016 and make 20% savings.

    By 2017/18 PIP is costing 20% more than DLA.

    The roll out is now set for completion by 2023!

    I got more for PIP, when I moved from DLA, nearly £1,500 pa.

    Hope this helps with your research.
    Thank you @atlas46, you're in the better off section.


    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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  • twonker
    twonker Posts: 617 Pioneering
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    Threesticks said:
    I have recently been posting on another thread.I was prompted by @cristobal , to put this question to members who've been on any of theses benefits, PIP, DLA, AA and UC. I was made aware they are four very different benefits and accept that fact. However, all benefits are overseen by the DWP.

    My question is this. If you have been put on this new benefit system from another, such as ESA etc, are you better off or worse off ? I have my own opinion on this, but that's all I have is my opinion, I need facts. Thank you in anticipation.
    First of all it matters not that the DWP oversee all of those benefits. What you are trying to do is compare two or more benefits with each other. For a start there is absolutely no comparison between DLA, PIP or AA. All three benefits have different criteria. If you are asking if people are receiving more or less money after moving from DLA to PIP then there can be no real answer. Those two benefits assess a disability in two different ways. The first was based on the disability/diagnosis/condition and the second, PIP, is based on matching fixed descriptors relating to the impact of that disability/condition.
    It is well known that there are more people on the highest rates of PIP than there were on DLA. Maybe that is because they could not get DLA but were entitled to PIP. 
    You are asking for a personal opinion. Compared to DLA my PIP although different in makeup - care/mobility is different, the overall money received was more or less the same between the two.
    As for IB and ESA, I was receiving more under ESA than under IB. That claim ceased in 2014 when I became 65.
    AA is paid at two rates for care. Those two rates match exactly those that were/are paid for DLA care, Middle & High as they do for PIP, Standard & Enhanced.

     As an example 
    AA Lower Care = DLA Middle Care = PIP Standard Care
    AA Higher Care = DLA Higher Care = PIP Enhanced Care.

    There is no difference in terms of what each benefit pays.
    Finally money really cannot be compared between any of those benefits as your health may improve/deteriorate. 
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  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Community member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    edited April 2019
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    @twonker If you cannot read the OP and just answer the very simple question, if you don't want to answer move along to another post thank you. I not debating this with you.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
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