Diagnosis Letter for MR - Page 2 — Scope | Disability forum

Diagnosis Letter for MR

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  • twonker
    twonker Posts: 617 Member
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
    If you act like a child then you must be a child!
    So we have joined the ranks of certain African countries where 'children' are trained as soldiers.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 24,738 Disability Gamechanger
    18 is an adult, not a child. My daughter is the same age and she's an adult.

    My daughter has autism and social anxiety disorder. She claims Enhanced for both parts because of the way she's affected. She needs help and support every single day and without that support she wouldn't be able to get through the day. I've never had any problems claiming PIP for her.

    I first claimed PIP for her in August 2017 before she was diagnosed with ASD.  A diagnosis doesn't make any difference. She's had difficulties all the way through out her life but it took me 14 years to get a diagnosis. I sent in a lot of evidence to support her claim, she had a face to face assessment at home and i answered all the questions on her behalf because i'm her appointee. 6 weeks later a decision was made, Enhanced for both parts.

    Recent review, all evidence was sent, including the ASD assessment report which goes into a huge amount of detail about the way she's affected. I filled in the form with a lot of detail and added 2 examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her. She had a paper based assessment this time and was awarded Enhanced for both again.

    Yes, of course it possible to claim PIP for the way ASD affects you but it's not awarded based on a diagnosis.
  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 987 Disability Gamechanger

    @mercedesbd ….Is it worth waiting until you get the letter from your psychotherapist before doing anything further?

    The reason I ask is that it seems that your GP has never diagnosed autism, nor referred you to a specialist, and the DWP assessor detected no autism, nor any cognitive disorder. Yet the following week the psychotherapist said that you “meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis”

    Are they qualified to give such a diagnosis, when other medically trained professionals haven’t??

    (I’m just pointing out that there seems to be a conflict between the evidence, which might need to be explained)

    And I also agree with @poppy123456 - whatever the diagnosis you'll need to give details of how this affects you


  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    cristobal said:

    @mercedesbd ….Is it worth waiting until you get the letter from your psychotherapist before doing anything further?

    The reason I ask is that it seems that your GP has never diagnosed autism, nor referred you to a specialist, and the DWP assessor detected no autism, nor any cognitive disorder. Yet the following week the psychotherapist said that you “meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis”

    Are they qualified to give such a diagnosis, when other medically trained professionals haven’t??

    (I’m just pointing out that there seems to be a conflict between the evidence, which might need to be explained)

    And I also agree with @poppy123456 - whatever the diagnosis you'll need to give details of how this affects you


    Only advanced professionals can diagnose Autism it takes much research to detect it. Childhood years, medical history and present abilities . Doctors can’t diagnose this as It’s out of there profession range 

    Sorry but I didn’t know a ‘ dispensing paramedic ‘ ( assessor ) could detect autism? It’s funny how they didn’t detect anything at all isn’t it? Autism is a hidden disability not visual
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    18 is an adult, not a child. My daughter is the same age and she's an adult.

    My daughter has autism and social anxiety disorder. She claims Enhanced for both parts because of the way she's affected. She needs help and support every single day and without that support she wouldn't be able to get through the day. I've never had any problems claiming PIP for her.

    I first claimed PIP for her in August 2017 before she was diagnosed with ASD.  A diagnosis doesn't make any difference. She's had difficulties all the way through out her life but it took me 14 years to get a diagnosis. I sent in a lot of evidence to support her claim, she had a face to face assessment at home and i answered all the questions on her behalf because i'm her appointee. 6 weeks later a decision was made, Enhanced for both parts.

    Recent review, all evidence was sent, including the ASD assessment report which goes into a huge amount of detail about the way she's affected. I filled in the form with a lot of detail and added 2 examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her. She had a paper based assessment this time and was awarded Enhanced for both again.

    Yes, of course it possible to claim PIP for the way ASD affects you but it's not awarded based on a diagnosis.
    I’m not saying it does matter about diagnosis. It’s just proving there is a cognitive impairement when there saying there isnt
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    twonker said:
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
    If you act like a child then you must be a child!
    So we have joined the ranks of certain African countries where 'children' are trained as soldiers.
    Bye.   Thank u    
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,807 Disability Gamechanger
    mercedesbd said:

    Thank you for your understanding.  On the 04/04/2019 was my PIP assessment date I had no autism diagnosis. On the 11/04/2019 I had the assesment and was diagnosed. One of my categories I should score points for is 
    4
    d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; 


    I can not interact with people without getting severe anxiety attacks and harming myself by biting or punching myself. 

    The woman man at the assesment said ‘ there’s no cognitive impairment so it’s reasonable to state this can be done unaided ‘ 

    I think them seeing my new diagnosis will override this & they’ve never written to my doctor nor have they my medical records to hand. My doctors know nothing about the autism as it was a self referral (suggested) & DWP know nothing about the diagnostic assesment as I was hoping I didn’t have autism . 

    Do you think I’m valid or wrong? 
    I can only guess that this is now another competition to show how much inaccurate information can be posted on one thread. 

    Your diagnosis remains irrelevant. If you had those issues and described them at your assessment then giving a name to it makes little to no difference. There is no magic bullet. They will not write to your doctor. You are the claimant and you are the person who needs to prove entitlement rather than them proving you’re not. The key here is twofold 

    1 - describing your issues in sufficient detail and with 1 or 2 real world examples per activity and also that 

    2 - the HCP (assessor) was wholly wrong to even mention cognitive impairment in this context. The training of HCPs disregards the law and focuses on (I’m being very generous here) the guidance. A less generous interpretation of the training would be that it ignores the guidance also and focuses solely on what the DWP and politicians think the law ought to say. 

    You can read the guidance at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities and you’ll see that there is no reference to “cognitive impairment” for that activity at all. @mercedesbd was one of several who think it’s relevant when it isn’t.

    Your best approach to an MR argument is as I described in my earlier post and above in this post. Provided your problems with engagement are the consequence of some impairment there’s no issue. You don’t need to write pages. 

    To deal with some of the other rather bizarre and confused posts on here:

    - @bigglesworth makes a distinction between mental ill health and developmental disorders. The latter are classified very clearly as psychiatric conditions. So the difference is? For the purposes of PIP it’s an irrelevance. You have an impairment. It has consequences. That’s all that matters. Wholly agree however with your comments about structure and the wheels coming off. 

    @poppy123456 usually offers great, clear advice but it is wrong to say that you must show psych distress during the assessment. There is no such requirement. 

    The subsequent discussions about whether the poster is an adult or a child are frankly embarrassing and ditto the discussion about swearing. Whilst the OP ought not to have sworn, anyone with even the most basic knowledge of autism would understand that this was the reaction they were going to get from a person on the spectrum when answers ceased to be answers and start to become challenges.

    The subsequent reactions embarrass you all but not least the posts of @ilovecats who wants to give us the HCP “perspective” and has done so in spades but perhaps not as they intended. So, they’ve worked with people on the spectrum but think it appropriate to suggest that swearing is childish. The response from @twonker sadly fuelled the fire further. Better still the @ilovecats post on late life diagnosis, which was not “insensitive” but just wrong. 
  • bigglesworth
    bigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    @mikehughescq I think the distinction is important because the assessors make a comment about whether there has been mental health input/support, which should be irrelevant for autism unless you have a comorbid condition which presents mental health issues.
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    mercedesbd said:

    Thank you for your understanding.  On the 04/04/2019 was my PIP assessment date I had no autism diagnosis. On the 11/04/2019 I had the assesment and was diagnosed. One of my categories I should score points for is 
    4
    d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; 


    I can not interact with people without getting severe anxiety attacks and harming myself by biting or punching myself. 

    The woman man at the assesment said ‘ there’s no cognitive impairment so it’s reasonable to state this can be done unaided ‘ 

    I think them seeing my new diagnosis will override this & they’ve never written to my doctor nor have they my medical records to hand. My doctors know nothing about the autism as it was a self referral (suggested) & DWP know nothing about the diagnostic assesment as I was hoping I didn’t have autism . 

    Do you think I’m valid or wrong? 
    I can only guess that this is now another competition to show how much inaccurate information can be posted on one thread. 

    Your diagnosis remains irrelevant. If you had those issues and described them at your assessment then giving a name to it makes little to no difference. There is no magic bullet. They will not write to your doctor. You are the claimant and you are the person who needs to prove entitlement rather than them proving you’re not. The key here is twofold 

    1 - describing your issues in sufficient detail and with 1 or 2 real world examples per activity and also that 

    2 - the HCP (assessor) was wholly wrong to even mention cognitive impairment in this context. The training of HCPs disregards the law and focuses on (I’m being very generous here) the guidance. A less generous interpretation of the training would be that it ignores the guidance also and focuses solely on what the DWP and politicians think the law ought to say. 

    You can read the guidance at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities and you’ll see that there is no reference to “cognitive impairment” for that activity at all. @mercedesbd was one of several who think it’s relevant when it isn’t.

    Your best approach to an MR argument is as I described in my earlier post and above in this post. Provided your problems with engagement are the consequence of some impairment there’s no issue. You don’t need to write pages. 

    To deal with some of the other rather bizarre and confused posts on here:

    - @bigglesworth makes a distinction between mental ill health and developmental disorders. The latter are classified very clearly as psychiatric conditions. So the difference is? For the purposes of PIP it’s an irrelevance. You have an impairment. It has consequences. That’s all that matters. Wholly agree however with your comments about structure and the wheels coming off. 

    @poppy123456 usually offers great, clear advice but it is wrong to say that you must show psych distress during the assessment. There is no such requirement. 

    The subsequent discussions about whether the poster is an adult or a child are frankly embarrassing and ditto the discussion about swearing. Whilst the OP ought not to have sworn, anyone with even the most basic knowledge of autism would understand that this was the reaction they were going to get from a person on the spectrum when answers ceased to be answers and start to become challenges.

    The subsequent reactions embarrass you all but not least the posts of @ilovecats who wants to give us the HCP “perspective” and has done so in spades but perhaps not as they intended. So, they’ve worked with people on the spectrum but think it appropriate to suggest that swearing is childish. The response from @twonker sadly fuelled the fire further. Better still the @ilovecats post on late life diagnosis, which was not “insensitive” but just wrong. 
    Thank god someone that know what there on about. 
  • atlas46
    atlas46 Member Posts: 826 Pioneering
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you tried getting assistance from MENCAP? Give them a ring on their helpline tel: 0808 808 1111.  I have always found them very helpful over the years.

    Another point to mention, MIND Scotland have just taken cases to the Supreme Court on this very subject.

    The case has not been published yet, I will let you know when it has been.

    Have you tried getting a local advocate, to assist you? Well worth a try.

    Keep us updated, so we can give you as much assistance as possible.
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you had the chance to consider my earlier post.

    Best wishes
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 24,738 Disability Gamechanger
    My final advice on the thread will have to be... you really do need to get some expert advice because an internet forum really isn't the place to give such advice. You will always have people giving their opinions, whether that opinion is right or wrong.

    There's only one person that knows what they're talking about here @mikehughescq but that's understandable because you know the caselaw etc but sadly not everyone understands that.

    What i advised above about OPD was the advice that was given on this forum in the past. My daughter is not affected in this way, so i have no experience.

    I will stand by what i said multiple times a diagnosis will not help your claim for PIP. I do however wish you good luck with your claim.
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    My final advice on the thread will have to be... you really do need to get some expert advice because an internet forum really isn't the place to give such advice. You will always have people giving their opinions, whether that opinion is right or wrong.

    There's only one person that knows what they're talking about here @mikehughescq but that's understandable because you know the caselaw etc but sadly not everyone understands that.

    What i advised above about OPD was the advice that was given on this forum in the past. My daughter is not affected in this way, so i have no experience.

    I will stand by what i said multiple times a diagnosis will not help your claim for PIP. I do however wish you good luck with your claim.
    Thank you I understand. Thanks for ur help n time
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    atlas46 said:
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you tried getting assistance from MENCAP? Give them a ring on their helpline tel: 0808 808 1111.  I have always found them very helpful over the years.

    Another point to mention, MIND Scotland have just taken cases to the Supreme Court on this very subject.

    The case has not been published yet, I will let you know when it has been.

    Have you tried getting a local advocate, to assist you? Well worth a try.

    Keep us updated, so we can give you as much assistance as possible.
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you had the chance to consider my earlier post.

    Best wishes
    Hi so sorry I never see this. What is MENCAP? And what do they do & no I haven’t got a local advocate as I struggle socialising with strangers :( x
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,807 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq I think the distinction is important because the assessors make a comment about whether there has been mental health input/support, which should be irrelevant for autism unless you have a comorbid condition which presents mental health issues.
    I see where you’re coming from but ultimately the distinction is irrelevant simply because the whole input/support thing comes up with multiple conditions not just autism. It’s the lack of input stuff which needs challenging. 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    WF2k said:
    I hope you're ok @mercedesbd

    I’m fine thanks, and yourself?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Feeling poopy as usual, thank you for asking.
  • Deb_Alumni
    Deb_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 187 Pioneering

    It is clear from a number of threads over the weekend that some members have taken advantage on our community.

    The individuals involved in these threads changed the tone to be aggravated, personal to individuals and disrespectful.  Each of these members will be emailed individually and where appropriate placed on moderation.

    Our community is not a place for people to be feel unsafe and unsupported.  Members being made to feel fearful of posting due to a few is against our core values and we will stop it.

    If any member wishes to receive support and advice on our community they can email us on [email protected] at any time.

    Please read my post https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/58085/everyone-on-our-community-and-their-wellbeing-is-important-to-us reminding us all to be considerate of others on the community.
    Debbie
    Online Community Manager

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