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Diagnosis Letter for MR

mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
edited May 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi everyone, as you all know I’ve had the assessment been scored 0 & requested MR, although it’s how the condition affects you and not the diagnosis that matters.

I’ve sent in my ADHD, Anxiety & Conduct Disorder letter. I’ve got a letter of the psychotherapist today - to say that I meet the criteria for a Autism diagnosis will this be enough? I haven’t got the full report and obviously on the report is very personal and upsetting information that my GP won’t even be seeing. So can I send this of will this be enough proof? It’s NHS letter and everything’s headed 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    A letter saying you meet the criteria for Autism won't be enough. The full report would be better because it goes into more detail. As only 19% of MR decisions change expect to have to take it to Tribunal anyway. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    Hi,

    A letter saying you meet the criteria for Autism won't be enough. The full report would be better because it goes into more detail. As only 19% of MR decisions change expect to have to take it to Tribunal anyway. Good luck.
    Thanks
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
    Hi everyone, as you all know I’ve had the assessment been scored 0 & requested MR, although it’s how the condition affects you and not the diagnosis that matters.

    I’ve sent in my ADHD, Anxiety & Conduct Disorder letter. I’ve got a letter of the psychotherapist today - to say that I meet the criteria for a Autism diagnosis will this be enough? I haven’t got the full report and obviously on the report is very personal and upsetting information that my GP won’t even be seeing. So can I send this of will this be enough proof? It’s NHS letter and everything’s headed 
    It’s not about proving you have it, it’s about how it affects you. If you’ve made it to adulthood without needing input for autism then it is considered that you can most likely manage the tasks of daily living.
    I’m sorry but who’s said I have managed? I’ve suffered and I say SUFFERED for years I left school at year 6 as I couldn’t cope. I had high rate DLA and low mobility when I swapped over scored 0. I couldn’t cope with appeal so left it reapplied recently and it says in my report ‘ no cognitive impairment or social impairment ‘ my psychotherapist has confirmed this will override what they have said 
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    My advice is to still send the full report, i'm not even sure why you would choose not to send it. My daughter has autism and her ASD assessment report is one of the reports i sent this time for her review.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
     I’m telling you how a late in life diagnosis is perceived. I would suggest that anyone who is able to post on an Internet forum is unlikely to have any serious cognitive deficits. 

    I think, to put it mildly, that’s one of the more unhelpful and inaccurate comments I’ve read on this forum by some distance. 

    No research has been done by DWP; anyone on their behalf or anyone independent of them on how late diagnosis is perceived. To start with there’s no definition of what is late! 

    Your suggestion above is not only wrong but also potentially offensive. There are plenty of people who post here where it’s possible to potentially discern quite profound cognitive issues. They may be hugely articulate but post repeatedly; late at night; the same questions in different threads and so on. They may post barely coherent or short sentences. Most people are able to communicate in some form. However, the same things I’m describing may just be a reflection of education or preferred style. The fact that the internet is one form of communication is essentially meaningless. It tells you nothing about cognitive deficit.  

    Your inference is that inability to communicate indicates cognitive deficit is not supported by evidence, research and more importantly case law. There’s already good case law on the fact that, for example, someone can go to the pub or a shop does not mean they can socially engage. Following your logic anyone able to describe the consequences of their own condition would not score PIP points. Clearly that’s not the case and it never has been. 

    To deal with the question from the OP. The evidence of diagnosis is irrelevant and there’s no point in sending it in for MR. That’s partly because no-one appears to be disputing your diagnosis and partly because only 19% of MRs succeed. What you really need is to send in the report as described but to, more importantly, work with a member of your family who knows your symptoms and decide which activities you should score points on. 

    List those activities in the MR and come up with 1 or 2 detailed examples per activity to show what happened last time you tried that activity. That forms your MR and can be used as the basis for any subsequent appeal. if you can’t find activities which total 8 points or can’t find examples then it’s likely you do not qualify at this stage. 

  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
     I’m telling you how a late in life diagnosis is perceived. I would suggest that anyone who is able to post on an Internet forum is unlikely to have any serious cognitive deficits. 

    I think, to put it mildly, that’s one of the more unhelpful and inaccurate comments I’ve read on this forum by some distance. 

    No research has been done by DWP; anyone on their behalf or anyone independent of them on how late diagnosis is perceived. To start with there’s no definition of what is late! 

    Your suggestion above is not only wrong but also potentially offensive. There are plenty of people who post here where it’s possible to potentially discern quite profound cognitive issues. They may be hugely articulate but post repeatedly; late at night; the same questions in different threads and so on. They may post barely coherent or short sentences. Most people are able to communicate in some form. However, the same things I’m describing may just be a reflection of education or preferred style. The fact that the internet is one form of communication is essentially meaningless. It tells you nothing about cognitive deficit.  

    Your inference is that inability to communicate indicates cognitive deficit is not supported by evidence, research and more importantly case law. There’s already good case law on the fact that, for example, someone can go to the pub or a shop does not mean they can socially engage. Following your logic anyone able to describe the consequences of their own condition would not score PIP points. Clearly that’s not the case and it never has been. 

    To deal with the question from the OP. The evidence of diagnosis is irrelevant and there’s no point in sending it in for MR. That’s partly because no-one appears to be disputing your diagnosis and partly because only 19% of MRs succeed. What you really need is to send in the report as described but to, more importantly, work with a member of your family who knows your symptoms and decide which activities you should score points on. 

    List those activities in the MR and come up with 1 or 2 detailed examples per activity to show what happened last time you tried that activity. That forms your MR and can be used as the basis for any subsequent appeal. if you can’t find activities which total 8 points or can’t find examples then it’s likely you do not qualify at this stage. 

    Thank you for your understanding.  On the 04/04/2019 was my PIP assessment date I had no autism diagnosis. On the 11/04/2019 I had the assesment and was diagnosed. One of my categories I should score points for is 
    4
    d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; 


    I can not interact with people without getting severe anxiety attacks and harming myself by biting or punching myself. 

    The woman man at the assesment said ‘ there’s no cognitive impairment so it’s reasonable to state this can be done unaided ‘ 

    I think them seeing my new diagnosis will override this & they’ve never written to my doctor nor have they my medical records to hand. My doctors know nothing about the autism as it was a self referral (suggested) & DWP know nothing about the diagnostic assesment as I was hoping I didn’t have autism .

    Do you think I’m valid or wrong? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2019
    To score 8 points in this activity you would have had to have shown overwhelming psychological distress during the assessment. If you were just anxious then in my opinion this won't be enough to score so highly (8 points) in this descriptor.

    Descriptor D (8 points): Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either:
    i. overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or
    ii. the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person

    Overwhelming psychological distress means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment which results in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person is unable to function. This may be as a direct result of a mental health condition, or as a result of another disability such as cognitive or developmental impairment.

    PIP isn't about a diagnosis so having a diagnosis confirmed after the assessment took place won't help. Sending the full report may help but it depends on how you're affected.

    They also very rarely contact anyone for any evidence, the onus is on you to make sure you send it to support your claim.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    I think it's worth pointing out here that ilovecats is an experienced assessor with no autism experience who still feels they can make a fair assessment of someone with autism. This goes a long way to show why a lot of assessors are incompetent at assessing autism difficulties.

    Autism should not be classed as a mental health issue as it is a developmental disorder and people with autism may struggle a great deal with day to day activities without any of it being mental health related.

    It is unfortunate that the DWP training that is provided to ATOS/Capita/Maximus provides no information whatsoever on the effects on abnormal executive functioning. This is the biggest reason why adults with autism are routinely failed by the PIP assessment services.

    I also feel I need to point out that overwhelming psychological distress does not have a proper system to evaluate someones difficulties, no matter how overwhelmed someone may be, it may never be overwhelming enough for some assessors.
  • atlas46atlas46 Community champion Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you tried getting assistance from MENCAP? Give them a ring on their helpline tel: 0808 808 1111.  I have always found them very helpful over the years.

    Another point to mention, MIND Scotland have just taken cases to the Supreme Court on this very subject.

    The case has not been published yet, I will let you know when it has been.

    Have you tried getting a local advocate, to assist you? Well worth a try.

    Keep us updated, so we can give you as much assistance as possible.
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I think it's worth pointing out here that ilovecats is an experienced assessor with no autism experience who still feels they can make a fair assessment of someone with autism. This goes a long way to show why a lot of assessors are incompetent at assessing autism difficulties.

    Autism should not be classed as a mental health issue as it is a developmental disorder and people with autism may struggle a great deal with day to day activities without any of it being mental health related.

    It is unfortunate that the DWP training that is provided to ATOS/Capita/Maximus provides no information whatsoever on the effects on abnormal executive functioning. This is the biggest reason why adults with autism are routinely failed by the PIP assessment services.

    I also feel I need to point out that overwhelming psychological distress does not have a proper system to evaluate someones difficulties, no matter how overwhelmed someone may be, it may never be overwhelming enough for some assessors.
    Actually I spent 2 years working as a support worker for adults with severe autism . . . . 

    I know it isn’t a mental health condition. PIP classes it as such on the list of condition.

    Your posts seem to indicate otherwise, maybe working with mostly severe cases has clouded your judgement when dealing with really bad or terrible autism cases (or anyone on the spectrum who isn't severe enough).

    There are lots of autistic adults out there that manage to get through their structured childhood fine and then the wheels fall off when they reach adulthood.

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I think it's worth pointing out here that ilovecats is an experienced assessor with no autism experience who still feels they can make a fair assessment of someone with autism. This goes a long way to show why a lot of assessors are incompetent at assessing autism difficulties.

    Autism should not be classed as a mental health issue as it is a developmental disorder and people with autism may struggle a great deal with day to day activities without any of it being mental health related.

    It is unfortunate that the DWP training that is provided to ATOS/Capita/Maximus provides no information whatsoever on the effects on abnormal executive functioning. This is the biggest reason why adults with autism are routinely failed by the PIP assessment services.

    I also feel I need to point out that overwhelming psychological distress does not have a proper system to evaluate someones difficulties, no matter how overwhelmed someone may be, it may never be overwhelming enough for some assessors.
    Actually I spent 2 years working as a support worker for adults with severe autism . . . . 

    I know it isn’t a mental health condition. PIP classes it as such on the list of condition.
    Then you would know everyone is different what one can do another may not be able to. [Removed by moderator]
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    As a community champion here on scope i'd like to remind you to please be mindful of your comments. We are a friendly community here on scope and would like to keep it that way. There's really no need for bad language.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community champion Posts: 7,153 Disability Gamechanger
    @mercedesbd please edit your post and remove your use of profanity. We encourage our members not to swear as we do have younger readers. Thank you.
    Community Champion
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    @mercedesbd Unfortunately it is very difficult to get PIP for Autism related difficulties at the present time, the DWP can come up with any number of excuses to invalidate or ignore your evidence. It is basically a dice roll on whether your evidence is seen by someone who has some understanding of autism. The other side of this is that if you persist to tribunal your chances of getting support are much higher as it is out of the DWPs hands at this point. 
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    @mercedesbd Unfortunately it is very difficult to get PIP for Autism related difficulties at the present time, the DWP can come up with any number of excuses to invalidate or ignore your evidence. It is basically a dice roll on whether your evidence is seen by someone who has some understanding of autism. The other side of this is that if you persist to tribunal your chances of getting support are much higher as it is out of the DWPs hands at this point. 
    Thank you.  Have you claimed for this or know anyone that has?
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    Not directly myself i'm afraid, but a family member attends a local drop-in for adults diagnosed with autism. I think about 20 or so attend and they have all managed to move from DLA to PIP, but only a couple of them managed it without having to go to a tribunal.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
    If you act like a child then you must be a child!
    So we have joined the ranks of certain African countries where 'children' are trained as soldiers.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    18 is an adult, not a child. My daughter is the same age and she's an adult.

    My daughter has autism and social anxiety disorder. She claims Enhanced for both parts because of the way she's affected. She needs help and support every single day and without that support she wouldn't be able to get through the day. I've never had any problems claiming PIP for her.

    I first claimed PIP for her in August 2017 before she was diagnosed with ASD.  A diagnosis doesn't make any difference. She's had difficulties all the way through out her life but it took me 14 years to get a diagnosis. I sent in a lot of evidence to support her claim, she had a face to face assessment at home and i answered all the questions on her behalf because i'm her appointee. 6 weeks later a decision was made, Enhanced for both parts.

    Recent review, all evidence was sent, including the ASD assessment report which goes into a huge amount of detail about the way she's affected. I filled in the form with a lot of detail and added 2 examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her. She had a paper based assessment this time and was awarded Enhanced for both again.

    Yes, of course it possible to claim PIP for the way ASD affects you but it's not awarded based on a diagnosis.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger

    @mercedesbd ….Is it worth waiting until you get the letter from your psychotherapist before doing anything further?

    The reason I ask is that it seems that your GP has never diagnosed autism, nor referred you to a specialist, and the DWP assessor detected no autism, nor any cognitive disorder. Yet the following week the psychotherapist said that you “meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis”

    Are they qualified to give such a diagnosis, when other medically trained professionals haven’t??

    (I’m just pointing out that there seems to be a conflict between the evidence, which might need to be explained)

    And I also agree with @poppy123456 - whatever the diagnosis you'll need to give details of how this affects you


  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    cristobal said:

    @mercedesbd ….Is it worth waiting until you get the letter from your psychotherapist before doing anything further?

    The reason I ask is that it seems that your GP has never diagnosed autism, nor referred you to a specialist, and the DWP assessor detected no autism, nor any cognitive disorder. Yet the following week the psychotherapist said that you “meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis”

    Are they qualified to give such a diagnosis, when other medically trained professionals haven’t??

    (I’m just pointing out that there seems to be a conflict between the evidence, which might need to be explained)

    And I also agree with @poppy123456 - whatever the diagnosis you'll need to give details of how this affects you


    Only advanced professionals can diagnose Autism it takes much research to detect it. Childhood years, medical history and present abilities . Doctors can’t diagnose this as It’s out of there profession range 

    Sorry but I didn’t know a ‘ dispensing paramedic ‘ ( assessor ) could detect autism? It’s funny how they didn’t detect anything at all isn’t it? Autism is a hidden disability not visual
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    18 is an adult, not a child. My daughter is the same age and she's an adult.

    My daughter has autism and social anxiety disorder. She claims Enhanced for both parts because of the way she's affected. She needs help and support every single day and without that support she wouldn't be able to get through the day. I've never had any problems claiming PIP for her.

    I first claimed PIP for her in August 2017 before she was diagnosed with ASD.  A diagnosis doesn't make any difference. She's had difficulties all the way through out her life but it took me 14 years to get a diagnosis. I sent in a lot of evidence to support her claim, she had a face to face assessment at home and i answered all the questions on her behalf because i'm her appointee. 6 weeks later a decision was made, Enhanced for both parts.

    Recent review, all evidence was sent, including the ASD assessment report which goes into a huge amount of detail about the way she's affected. I filled in the form with a lot of detail and added 2 examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her. She had a paper based assessment this time and was awarded Enhanced for both again.

    Yes, of course it possible to claim PIP for the way ASD affects you but it's not awarded based on a diagnosis.
    I’m not saying it does matter about diagnosis. It’s just proving there is a cognitive impairement when there saying there isnt
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    twonker said:
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
    If you act like a child then you must be a child!
    So we have joined the ranks of certain African countries where 'children' are trained as soldiers.
    Bye.   Thank u    
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    mercedesbd said:

    Thank you for your understanding.  On the 04/04/2019 was my PIP assessment date I had no autism diagnosis. On the 11/04/2019 I had the assesment and was diagnosed. One of my categories I should score points for is 
    4
    d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; 


    I can not interact with people without getting severe anxiety attacks and harming myself by biting or punching myself. 

    The woman man at the assesment said ‘ there’s no cognitive impairment so it’s reasonable to state this can be done unaided ‘ 

    I think them seeing my new diagnosis will override this & they’ve never written to my doctor nor have they my medical records to hand. My doctors know nothing about the autism as it was a self referral (suggested) & DWP know nothing about the diagnostic assesment as I was hoping I didn’t have autism . 

    Do you think I’m valid or wrong? 
    I can only guess that this is now another competition to show how much inaccurate information can be posted on one thread. 

    Your diagnosis remains irrelevant. If you had those issues and described them at your assessment then giving a name to it makes little to no difference. There is no magic bullet. They will not write to your doctor. You are the claimant and you are the person who needs to prove entitlement rather than them proving you’re not. The key here is twofold 

    1 - describing your issues in sufficient detail and with 1 or 2 real world examples per activity and also that 

    2 - the HCP (assessor) was wholly wrong to even mention cognitive impairment in this context. The training of HCPs disregards the law and focuses on (I’m being very generous here) the guidance. A less generous interpretation of the training would be that it ignores the guidance also and focuses solely on what the DWP and politicians think the law ought to say. 

    You can read the guidance at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities and you’ll see that there is no reference to “cognitive impairment” for that activity at all. @mercedesbd was one of several who think it’s relevant when it isn’t.

    Your best approach to an MR argument is as I described in my earlier post and above in this post. Provided your problems with engagement are the consequence of some impairment there’s no issue. You don’t need to write pages. 

    To deal with some of the other rather bizarre and confused posts on here:

    - @bigglesworth makes a distinction between mental ill health and developmental disorders. The latter are classified very clearly as psychiatric conditions. So the difference is? For the purposes of PIP it’s an irrelevance. You have an impairment. It has consequences. That’s all that matters. Wholly agree however with your comments about structure and the wheels coming off. 

    @poppy123456 usually offers great, clear advice but it is wrong to say that you must show psych distress during the assessment. There is no such requirement. 

    The subsequent discussions about whether the poster is an adult or a child are frankly embarrassing and ditto the discussion about swearing. Whilst the OP ought not to have sworn, anyone with even the most basic knowledge of autism would understand that this was the reaction they were going to get from a person on the spectrum when answers ceased to be answers and start to become challenges.

    The subsequent reactions embarrass you all but not least the posts of @ilovecats who wants to give us the HCP “perspective” and has done so in spades but perhaps not as they intended. So, they’ve worked with people on the spectrum but think it appropriate to suggest that swearing is childish. The response from @twonker sadly fuelled the fire further. Better still the @ilovecats post on late life diagnosis, which was not “insensitive” but just wrong. 
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    @mikehughescq I think the distinction is important because the assessors make a comment about whether there has been mental health input/support, which should be irrelevant for autism unless you have a comorbid condition which presents mental health issues.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    mercedesbd said:

    Thank you for your understanding.  On the 04/04/2019 was my PIP assessment date I had no autism diagnosis. On the 11/04/2019 I had the assesment and was diagnosed. One of my categories I should score points for is 
    4
    d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; 


    I can not interact with people without getting severe anxiety attacks and harming myself by biting or punching myself. 

    The woman man at the assesment said ‘ there’s no cognitive impairment so it’s reasonable to state this can be done unaided ‘ 

    I think them seeing my new diagnosis will override this & they’ve never written to my doctor nor have they my medical records to hand. My doctors know nothing about the autism as it was a self referral (suggested) & DWP know nothing about the diagnostic assesment as I was hoping I didn’t have autism . 

    Do you think I’m valid or wrong? 
    I can only guess that this is now another competition to show how much inaccurate information can be posted on one thread. 

    Your diagnosis remains irrelevant. If you had those issues and described them at your assessment then giving a name to it makes little to no difference. There is no magic bullet. They will not write to your doctor. You are the claimant and you are the person who needs to prove entitlement rather than them proving you’re not. The key here is twofold 

    1 - describing your issues in sufficient detail and with 1 or 2 real world examples per activity and also that 

    2 - the HCP (assessor) was wholly wrong to even mention cognitive impairment in this context. The training of HCPs disregards the law and focuses on (I’m being very generous here) the guidance. A less generous interpretation of the training would be that it ignores the guidance also and focuses solely on what the DWP and politicians think the law ought to say. 

    You can read the guidance at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities and you’ll see that there is no reference to “cognitive impairment” for that activity at all. @mercedesbd was one of several who think it’s relevant when it isn’t.

    Your best approach to an MR argument is as I described in my earlier post and above in this post. Provided your problems with engagement are the consequence of some impairment there’s no issue. You don’t need to write pages. 

    To deal with some of the other rather bizarre and confused posts on here:

    - @bigglesworth makes a distinction between mental ill health and developmental disorders. The latter are classified very clearly as psychiatric conditions. So the difference is? For the purposes of PIP it’s an irrelevance. You have an impairment. It has consequences. That’s all that matters. Wholly agree however with your comments about structure and the wheels coming off. 

    @poppy123456 usually offers great, clear advice but it is wrong to say that you must show psych distress during the assessment. There is no such requirement. 

    The subsequent discussions about whether the poster is an adult or a child are frankly embarrassing and ditto the discussion about swearing. Whilst the OP ought not to have sworn, anyone with even the most basic knowledge of autism would understand that this was the reaction they were going to get from a person on the spectrum when answers ceased to be answers and start to become challenges.

    The subsequent reactions embarrass you all but not least the posts of @ilovecats who wants to give us the HCP “perspective” and has done so in spades but perhaps not as they intended. So, they’ve worked with people on the spectrum but think it appropriate to suggest that swearing is childish. The response from @twonker sadly fuelled the fire further. Better still the @ilovecats post on late life diagnosis, which was not “insensitive” but just wrong. 
    Thank god someone that know what there on about. 
  • atlas46atlas46 Community champion Posts: 827 Pioneering
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you tried getting assistance from MENCAP? Give them a ring on their helpline tel: 0808 808 1111.  I have always found them very helpful over the years.

    Another point to mention, MIND Scotland have just taken cases to the Supreme Court on this very subject.

    The case has not been published yet, I will let you know when it has been.

    Have you tried getting a local advocate, to assist you? Well worth a try.

    Keep us updated, so we can give you as much assistance as possible.
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you had the chance to consider my earlier post.

    Best wishes
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    My final advice on the thread will have to be... you really do need to get some expert advice because an internet forum really isn't the place to give such advice. You will always have people giving their opinions, whether that opinion is right or wrong.

    There's only one person that knows what they're talking about here @mikehughescq but that's understandable because you know the caselaw etc but sadly not everyone understands that.

    What i advised above about OPD was the advice that was given on this forum in the past. My daughter is not affected in this way, so i have no experience.

    I will stand by what i said multiple times a diagnosis will not help your claim for PIP. I do however wish you good luck with your claim.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    My final advice on the thread will have to be... you really do need to get some expert advice because an internet forum really isn't the place to give such advice. You will always have people giving their opinions, whether that opinion is right or wrong.

    There's only one person that knows what they're talking about here @mikehughescq but that's understandable because you know the caselaw etc but sadly not everyone understands that.

    What i advised above about OPD was the advice that was given on this forum in the past. My daughter is not affected in this way, so i have no experience.

    I will stand by what i said multiple times a diagnosis will not help your claim for PIP. I do however wish you good luck with your claim.
    Thank you I understand. Thanks for ur help n time
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    atlas46 said:
    atlas46 said:
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you tried getting assistance from MENCAP? Give them a ring on their helpline tel: 0808 808 1111.  I have always found them very helpful over the years.

    Another point to mention, MIND Scotland have just taken cases to the Supreme Court on this very subject.

    The case has not been published yet, I will let you know when it has been.

    Have you tried getting a local advocate, to assist you? Well worth a try.

    Keep us updated, so we can give you as much assistance as possible.
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you had the chance to consider my earlier post.

    Best wishes
    Hi so sorry I never see this. What is MENCAP? And what do they do & no I haven’t got a local advocate as I struggle socialising with strangers :( x
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq I think the distinction is important because the assessors make a comment about whether there has been mental health input/support, which should be irrelevant for autism unless you have a comorbid condition which presents mental health issues.
    I see where you’re coming from but ultimately the distinction is irrelevant simply because the whole input/support thing comes up with multiple conditions not just autism. It’s the lack of input stuff which needs challenging. 
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    WF2k said:
    I hope you're ok @mercedesbd

    I’m fine thanks, and yourself?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Feeling poopy as usual, thank you for asking.
  • Deb_ScopeDeb_Scope Member Posts: 192 Pioneering

    It is clear from a number of threads over the weekend that some members have taken advantage on our community.

    The individuals involved in these threads changed the tone to be aggravated, personal to individuals and disrespectful.  Each of these members will be emailed individually and where appropriate placed on moderation.

    Our community is not a place for people to be feel unsafe and unsupported.  Members being made to feel fearful of posting due to a few is against our core values and we will stop it.

    If any member wishes to receive support and advice on our community they can email us on [email protected] at any time.

    Please read my post https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/58085/everyone-on-our-community-and-their-wellbeing-is-important-to-us reminding us all to be considerate of others on the community.
    Debbie
    Online Community Manager
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