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Diagnosis Letter for MR

mercedesbd
mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
edited May 2019 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hi everyone, as you all know I’ve had the assessment been scored 0 & requested MR, although it’s how the condition affects you and not the diagnosis that matters.

I’ve sent in my ADHD, Anxiety & Conduct Disorder letter. I’ve got a letter of the psychotherapist today - to say that I meet the criteria for a Autism diagnosis will this be enough? I haven’t got the full report and obviously on the report is very personal and upsetting information that my GP won’t even be seeing. So can I send this of will this be enough proof? It’s NHS letter and everything’s headed 
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Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,927 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    A letter saying you meet the criteria for Autism won't be enough. The full report would be better because it goes into more detail. As only 19% of MR decisions change expect to have to take it to Tribunal anyway. Good luck.
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    Hi,

    A letter saying you meet the criteria for Autism won't be enough. The full report would be better because it goes into more detail. As only 19% of MR decisions change expect to have to take it to Tribunal anyway. Good luck.
    Thanks
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
    Hi everyone, as you all know I’ve had the assessment been scored 0 & requested MR, although it’s how the condition affects you and not the diagnosis that matters.

    I’ve sent in my ADHD, Anxiety & Conduct Disorder letter. I’ve got a letter of the psychotherapist today - to say that I meet the criteria for a Autism diagnosis will this be enough? I haven’t got the full report and obviously on the report is very personal and upsetting information that my GP won’t even be seeing. So can I send this of will this be enough proof? It’s NHS letter and everything’s headed 
    It’s not about proving you have it, it’s about how it affects you. If you’ve made it to adulthood without needing input for autism then it is considered that you can most likely manage the tasks of daily living.
    I’m sorry but who’s said I have managed? I’ve suffered and I say SUFFERED for years I left school at year 6 as I couldn’t cope. I had high rate DLA and low mobility when I swapped over scored 0. I couldn’t cope with appeal so left it reapplied recently and it says in my report ‘ no cognitive impairment or social impairment ‘ my psychotherapist has confirmed this will override what they have said 
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,927 Disability Gamechanger
    My advice is to still send the full report, i'm not even sure why you would choose not to send it. My daughter has autism and her ASD assessment report is one of the reports i sent this time for her review.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,549 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
     I’m telling you how a late in life diagnosis is perceived. I would suggest that anyone who is able to post on an Internet forum is unlikely to have any serious cognitive deficits. 

    I think, to put it mildly, that’s one of the more unhelpful and inaccurate comments I’ve read on this forum by some distance. 

    No research has been done by DWP; anyone on their behalf or anyone independent of them on how late diagnosis is perceived. To start with there’s no definition of what is late! 

    Your suggestion above is not only wrong but also potentially offensive. There are plenty of people who post here where it’s possible to potentially discern quite profound cognitive issues. They may be hugely articulate but post repeatedly; late at night; the same questions in different threads and so on. They may post barely coherent or short sentences. Most people are able to communicate in some form. However, the same things I’m describing may just be a reflection of education or preferred style. The fact that the internet is one form of communication is essentially meaningless. It tells you nothing about cognitive deficit.  

    Your inference is that inability to communicate indicates cognitive deficit is not supported by evidence, research and more importantly case law. There’s already good case law on the fact that, for example, someone can go to the pub or a shop does not mean they can socially engage. Following your logic anyone able to describe the consequences of their own condition would not score PIP points. Clearly that’s not the case and it never has been. 

    To deal with the question from the OP. The evidence of diagnosis is irrelevant and there’s no point in sending it in for MR. That’s partly because no-one appears to be disputing your diagnosis and partly because only 19% of MRs succeed. What you really need is to send in the report as described but to, more importantly, work with a member of your family who knows your symptoms and decide which activities you should score points on. 

    List those activities in the MR and come up with 1 or 2 detailed examples per activity to show what happened last time you tried that activity. That forms your MR and can be used as the basis for any subsequent appeal. if you can’t find activities which total 8 points or can’t find examples then it’s likely you do not qualify at this stage. 

  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
     I’m telling you how a late in life diagnosis is perceived. I would suggest that anyone who is able to post on an Internet forum is unlikely to have any serious cognitive deficits. 

    I think, to put it mildly, that’s one of the more unhelpful and inaccurate comments I’ve read on this forum by some distance. 

    No research has been done by DWP; anyone on their behalf or anyone independent of them on how late diagnosis is perceived. To start with there’s no definition of what is late! 

    Your suggestion above is not only wrong but also potentially offensive. There are plenty of people who post here where it’s possible to potentially discern quite profound cognitive issues. They may be hugely articulate but post repeatedly; late at night; the same questions in different threads and so on. They may post barely coherent or short sentences. Most people are able to communicate in some form. However, the same things I’m describing may just be a reflection of education or preferred style. The fact that the internet is one form of communication is essentially meaningless. It tells you nothing about cognitive deficit.  

    Your inference is that inability to communicate indicates cognitive deficit is not supported by evidence, research and more importantly case law. There’s already good case law on the fact that, for example, someone can go to the pub or a shop does not mean they can socially engage. Following your logic anyone able to describe the consequences of their own condition would not score PIP points. Clearly that’s not the case and it never has been. 

    To deal with the question from the OP. The evidence of diagnosis is irrelevant and there’s no point in sending it in for MR. That’s partly because no-one appears to be disputing your diagnosis and partly because only 19% of MRs succeed. What you really need is to send in the report as described but to, more importantly, work with a member of your family who knows your symptoms and decide which activities you should score points on. 

    List those activities in the MR and come up with 1 or 2 detailed examples per activity to show what happened last time you tried that activity. That forms your MR and can be used as the basis for any subsequent appeal. if you can’t find activities which total 8 points or can’t find examples then it’s likely you do not qualify at this stage. 

    Thank you for your understanding.  On the 04/04/2019 was my PIP assessment date I had no autism diagnosis. On the 11/04/2019 I had the assesment and was diagnosed. One of my categories I should score points for is 
    4
    d. Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; 


    I can not interact with people without getting severe anxiety attacks and harming myself by biting or punching myself. 

    The woman man at the assesment said ‘ there’s no cognitive impairment so it’s reasonable to state this can be done unaided ‘ 

    I think them seeing my new diagnosis will override this & they’ve never written to my doctor nor have they my medical records to hand. My doctors know nothing about the autism as it was a self referral (suggested) & DWP know nothing about the diagnostic assesment as I was hoping I didn’t have autism .

    Do you think I’m valid or wrong? 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,927 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2019
    To score 8 points in this activity you would have had to have shown overwhelming psychological distress during the assessment. If you were just anxious then in my opinion this won't be enough to score so highly (8 points) in this descriptor.

    Descriptor D (8 points): Cannot engage with other people due to such engagement causing either:
    i. overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or
    ii. the claimant to exhibit behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person

    Overwhelming psychological distress means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment which results in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person is unable to function. This may be as a direct result of a mental health condition, or as a result of another disability such as cognitive or developmental impairment.

    PIP isn't about a diagnosis so having a diagnosis confirmed after the assessment took place won't help. Sending the full report may help but it depends on how you're affected.

    They also very rarely contact anyone for any evidence, the onus is on you to make sure you send it to support your claim.
  • bigglesworth
    bigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    I think it's worth pointing out here that ilovecats is an experienced assessor with no autism experience who still feels they can make a fair assessment of someone with autism. This goes a long way to show why a lot of assessors are incompetent at assessing autism difficulties.

    Autism should not be classed as a mental health issue as it is a developmental disorder and people with autism may struggle a great deal with day to day activities without any of it being mental health related.

    It is unfortunate that the DWP training that is provided to ATOS/Capita/Maximus provides no information whatsoever on the effects on abnormal executive functioning. This is the biggest reason why adults with autism are routinely failed by the PIP assessment services.

    I also feel I need to point out that overwhelming psychological distress does not have a proper system to evaluate someones difficulties, no matter how overwhelmed someone may be, it may never be overwhelming enough for some assessors.
  • atlas46
    atlas46 Member Posts: 826 Pioneering
    Hi @mercedesbd

    Have you tried getting assistance from MENCAP? Give them a ring on their helpline tel: 0808 808 1111.  I have always found them very helpful over the years.

    Another point to mention, MIND Scotland have just taken cases to the Supreme Court on this very subject.

    The case has not been published yet, I will let you know when it has been.

    Have you tried getting a local advocate, to assist you? Well worth a try.

    Keep us updated, so we can give you as much assistance as possible.
  • bigglesworth
    bigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I think it's worth pointing out here that ilovecats is an experienced assessor with no autism experience who still feels they can make a fair assessment of someone with autism. This goes a long way to show why a lot of assessors are incompetent at assessing autism difficulties.

    Autism should not be classed as a mental health issue as it is a developmental disorder and people with autism may struggle a great deal with day to day activities without any of it being mental health related.

    It is unfortunate that the DWP training that is provided to ATOS/Capita/Maximus provides no information whatsoever on the effects on abnormal executive functioning. This is the biggest reason why adults with autism are routinely failed by the PIP assessment services.

    I also feel I need to point out that overwhelming psychological distress does not have a proper system to evaluate someones difficulties, no matter how overwhelmed someone may be, it may never be overwhelming enough for some assessors.
    Actually I spent 2 years working as a support worker for adults with severe autism . . . . 

    I know it isn’t a mental health condition. PIP classes it as such on the list of condition.

    Your posts seem to indicate otherwise, maybe working with mostly severe cases has clouded your judgement when dealing with really bad or terrible autism cases (or anyone on the spectrum who isn't severe enough).

    There are lots of autistic adults out there that manage to get through their structured childhood fine and then the wheels fall off when they reach adulthood.

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I think it's worth pointing out here that ilovecats is an experienced assessor with no autism experience who still feels they can make a fair assessment of someone with autism. This goes a long way to show why a lot of assessors are incompetent at assessing autism difficulties.

    Autism should not be classed as a mental health issue as it is a developmental disorder and people with autism may struggle a great deal with day to day activities without any of it being mental health related.

    It is unfortunate that the DWP training that is provided to ATOS/Capita/Maximus provides no information whatsoever on the effects on abnormal executive functioning. This is the biggest reason why adults with autism are routinely failed by the PIP assessment services.

    I also feel I need to point out that overwhelming psychological distress does not have a proper system to evaluate someones difficulties, no matter how overwhelmed someone may be, it may never be overwhelming enough for some assessors.
    Actually I spent 2 years working as a support worker for adults with severe autism . . . . 

    I know it isn’t a mental health condition. PIP classes it as such on the list of condition.
    Then you would know everyone is different what one can do another may not be able to. [Removed by moderator]
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,927 Disability Gamechanger
    As a community champion here on scope i'd like to remind you to please be mindful of your comments. We are a friendly community here on scope and would like to keep it that way. There's really no need for bad language.
  • Ami2301
    Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,941 Disability Gamechanger
    @mercedesbd please edit your post and remove your use of profanity. We encourage our members not to swear as we do have younger readers. Thank you.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
  • bigglesworth
    bigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    @mercedesbd Unfortunately it is very difficult to get PIP for Autism related difficulties at the present time, the DWP can come up with any number of excuses to invalidate or ignore your evidence. It is basically a dice roll on whether your evidence is seen by someone who has some understanding of autism. The other side of this is that if you persist to tribunal your chances of getting support are much higher as it is out of the DWPs hands at this point. 
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    @mercedesbd Unfortunately it is very difficult to get PIP for Autism related difficulties at the present time, the DWP can come up with any number of excuses to invalidate or ignore your evidence. It is basically a dice roll on whether your evidence is seen by someone who has some understanding of autism. The other side of this is that if you persist to tribunal your chances of getting support are much higher as it is out of the DWPs hands at this point. 
    Thank you.  Have you claimed for this or know anyone that has?
  • bigglesworth
    bigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    Not directly myself i'm afraid, but a family member attends a local drop-in for adults diagnosed with autism. I think about 20 or so attend and they have all managed to move from DLA to PIP, but only a couple of them managed it without having to go to a tribunal.
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
  • twonker
    twonker Posts: 617 Member
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:

    Your comment about posting on the internet being linked to cognitive impairment is another which simply points to your lack of understanding in this subject.
    My comment was aimed at one specific person and I had already apologised for being insensitive with my post. Thank you for hashing it up again. Much appreciated.
    I’ve edited my post. It’ll take 50 mins to update . I just don’t understand what ur even on about tbh thanks for ur help anyway
    AND I AM A CHILD   Thank u 
    You said in a different post you were 18 . . .
    IMO 18 is still a child
    If you act like a child then you must be a child!
    So we have joined the ranks of certain African countries where 'children' are trained as soldiers.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,927 Disability Gamechanger
    18 is an adult, not a child. My daughter is the same age and she's an adult.

    My daughter has autism and social anxiety disorder. She claims Enhanced for both parts because of the way she's affected. She needs help and support every single day and without that support she wouldn't be able to get through the day. I've never had any problems claiming PIP for her.

    I first claimed PIP for her in August 2017 before she was diagnosed with ASD.  A diagnosis doesn't make any difference. She's had difficulties all the way through out her life but it took me 14 years to get a diagnosis. I sent in a lot of evidence to support her claim, she had a face to face assessment at home and i answered all the questions on her behalf because i'm her appointee. 6 weeks later a decision was made, Enhanced for both parts.

    Recent review, all evidence was sent, including the ASD assessment report which goes into a huge amount of detail about the way she's affected. I filled in the form with a lot of detail and added 2 examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her. She had a paper based assessment this time and was awarded Enhanced for both again.

    Yes, of course it possible to claim PIP for the way ASD affects you but it's not awarded based on a diagnosis.
  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 987 Disability Gamechanger

    @mercedesbd ….Is it worth waiting until you get the letter from your psychotherapist before doing anything further?

    The reason I ask is that it seems that your GP has never diagnosed autism, nor referred you to a specialist, and the DWP assessor detected no autism, nor any cognitive disorder. Yet the following week the psychotherapist said that you “meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis”

    Are they qualified to give such a diagnosis, when other medically trained professionals haven’t??

    (I’m just pointing out that there seems to be a conflict between the evidence, which might need to be explained)

    And I also agree with @poppy123456 - whatever the diagnosis you'll need to give details of how this affects you


  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    cristobal said:

    @mercedesbd ….Is it worth waiting until you get the letter from your psychotherapist before doing anything further?

    The reason I ask is that it seems that your GP has never diagnosed autism, nor referred you to a specialist, and the DWP assessor detected no autism, nor any cognitive disorder. Yet the following week the psychotherapist said that you “meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis”

    Are they qualified to give such a diagnosis, when other medically trained professionals haven’t??

    (I’m just pointing out that there seems to be a conflict between the evidence, which might need to be explained)

    And I also agree with @poppy123456 - whatever the diagnosis you'll need to give details of how this affects you


    Only advanced professionals can diagnose Autism it takes much research to detect it. Childhood years, medical history and present abilities . Doctors can’t diagnose this as It’s out of there profession range 

    Sorry but I didn’t know a ‘ dispensing paramedic ‘ ( assessor ) could detect autism? It’s funny how they didn’t detect anything at all isn’t it? Autism is a hidden disability not visual
  • mercedesbd
    mercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    18 is an adult, not a child. My daughter is the same age and she's an adult.

    My daughter has autism and social anxiety disorder. She claims Enhanced for both parts because of the way she's affected. She needs help and support every single day and without that support she wouldn't be able to get through the day. I've never had any problems claiming PIP for her.

    I first claimed PIP for her in August 2017 before she was diagnosed with ASD.  A diagnosis doesn't make any difference. She's had difficulties all the way through out her life but it took me 14 years to get a diagnosis. I sent in a lot of evidence to support her claim, she had a face to face assessment at home and i answered all the questions on her behalf because i'm her appointee. 6 weeks later a decision was made, Enhanced for both parts.

    Recent review, all evidence was sent, including the ASD assessment report which goes into a huge amount of detail about the way she's affected. I filled in the form with a lot of detail and added 2 examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her. She had a paper based assessment this time and was awarded Enhanced for both again.

    Yes, of course it possible to claim PIP for the way ASD affects you but it's not awarded based on a diagnosis.
    I’m not saying it does matter about diagnosis. It’s just proving there is a cognitive impairement when there saying there isnt

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