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Tribunal

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  • amarilo
    amarilo Community member Posts: 16 Listener
    Thank you been through my papers hours and hours can’t see what would cause any of this,  I’m ready to give up, I could understand if there was a reason but I’ve gave them everything maybe I should not have done my appeal on my own but didn’t think it would turn out like this, I simply needed my pip to match my dla and mobility, I showed the reasons that did not match both in daily living and mobility saying I should have had more points as in my claim form and showed differences in my appeal ? thanks again 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger
    What award do you currently have for PIP?
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • amarilo
    amarilo Community member Posts: 16 Listener
  • Jurph
    Jurph Community member Posts: 369 Pioneering
    amarilo said:
    I showed the reasons that did not match both in daily living and mobility saying I should have had more points as in my claim form and showed differences in my appeal ? thanks again 
    I think that because you've question Daily Living and Mobility, the tribunal are going to look at both sections.

    They're warning you in advance that you may lose points if you go ahead with the tribunal. It's a standard legal procedure that you're warned you may lose points. 
  • amarilo
    amarilo Community member Posts: 16 Listener
    Thanks it makes sense as I don’t know why, I was merely trying to show my case as a whole and what I believed was correct and didn’t think I would have a problem I’m stupid but  with not feeling upto it!  but I should of had advise, I’ve let myself down the mobility part is the main thing and didn’t even think to treat them
    separately for appeal, I’m thinking just to give up it’s to much for me it appears to be I approached it all wrong but what else could I have done I thought I was doing it correctly i gave them everything including medical history etc, Thinking I’d done all I could to show my reasons it’s so hard to understand thankyou
  • Hartley
    Hartley Posts: 114 Courageous
    Agenda 21 & 31
  • amarilo
    amarilo Community member Posts: 16 Listener
    Beyond me sorrry?
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    The high rate mobility for PIP under law is different to the high rate mobility for DLA.

    So for a walking distance of 20-50m DLA would award you high rate mobility, in addition you could also get high rate mobility for been "virtually unable to walk".

    Under PIP, 20-50m now on its own only gives enough points for a standard rate mobility award, and there is no descriptor at all for "virtually unable to walk".

    It is important to understand each descriptor, the points system and which descriptor you fit under based on your own judgement, and ideally also under the judgement of someone like your doctor.  Although the latter isnt necessary it just helps.

    So e.g. if you think you can walk 30m, then it would actually mean your new standard award is correct, but under DLA it would give you high rate mobility.  I cannot say if its correct for you or not as I dont know your level of disability.  But I hope I am explaining the system well enough so you have at least a little understanding of how they make decisions.

    Of course its not just enough what your own opinion is, you get assessed by a health care professional who on their own judgement will recommend a specific descriptor to a decision maker at the DWP, this is how they will have come to the current decision.  Having as much evidence as possible to support the information you have provided makes it more likely you will get a decision in your favour.  But also to clearly state specific reasons why you fit into that descriptor as well.  

    At tribunal you will get asked questions related to this so they can try and determine which descriptor(s) to put you under, and you need to be clear on where you stand and how to answer those sot of questions before you go there, or have someone to answer them for you.  So e.g. if you can walk 100m, but only by stopping every 20m for a rest, then you make it absolutely clear you can only manage 20m repeatedly, reliably, and you have to keep stopping.  Give examples of this.  So it might be you use a stroller to use to go to the shop, and approximately every 20m you stop, sit down, have a rest, then carry on.  If you have a gp, consultant, occupational therapist, anyone else with some kind of medical qualifications, to support your case, then get them to provide written evidence.  If you have walking aids and they were supplied by someone like an occupational therapist, make that absolutely clear.

    Good luck and I hope you find someone to represent you.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited August 2019
    I was awarded virtually unable to walk at my DLA tribunal ilovecats, and I was told they use that descriptor when they think someone can manage more than 50m but they in clear distress doing so.  

    It is interesting you think that descriptor is the same meaning, I dont consider it that tho, its worded very differently.  It would seem that the DWP perhaps didnt like how it was interpreted by the tribunal and changed the wording for that reason, that the DWP intended for virtually unable to walk as "barely able to stand".  So in that regards I would still consider it more stringent.  As the term "virtually unable to walk" is a lot more open to interpretation.
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2019
    I agree with @ilovecats - if someone is described as 'virtually unable to walk' then they must get 12 points...

    I've not seen the phrase mentioned in the PIP descriptors though.

    As you suggest it is open to interpretation and more or less meaningless as you still have to guess which descriptor is most appropriate...



  • amarilo
    amarilo Community member Posts: 16 Listener
    Makes sense but now I’m really confused, I was originally awarded  mobility when on dla by tribunal and awarded me this and it stated unable to walk, But totally ignored by pip claim, so this was why I appealed! so I’m now confused as some comments have said take what I have and cancel tribunal and the adjourned  tribunal was a warning which means or suggests loosing point but it also says award point too, WHICH is it then, throw the towel or try to continue but I really can’t take  anymore I’m so upset with it all, 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,333 Disability Gamechanger
    This is why you need face to face advice. This isn't something an internet forum can advise you on correctly because no one knows anything about how your conditions affect you or anything about your case. When you go for advice take your bundle with you and they will look through and see if there's anything in there that may have gone against you.

    To present your own case you really do need to have some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean because this will help. A poorly presented case could go against you.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    @amarilo - I haven't any experience of tribunals as, fortunately, I didn't get that far...

    PIP has replaced DLA for a lot of people and has different criteria. Would you be better looking at what the situation is now, rather than what it was?

    Maybe have a look at the mobility descriptor for PIP and assess (as I believe @worried33 suggested on another post) which applies to you. Then you can make an informed decision...

    Good luck..



  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited August 2019
    cristobal said:
    I agree with @ilovecats - if someone is described as 'virtually unable to walk' then they must get 12 points...

    I've not seen the phrase mentioned in the PIP descriptors though.

    As you suggest it is open to interpretation and more or less meaningless as you still have to guess which descriptor is most appropriate...



    His/Her input is very welcome'd as been an ex assessor its an insight into how the DWP see things, and if thats how the DWP always seen the "virtually unable to walk" descriptor then I think they and the tribunals were miles apart and its no wonder its been reworded.  In the DWP's eyes its still there, in my eye's its gone.  But there is no way the PIP descriptor can be seen in the same manner that I got awarded it as it very clearly states "who can only stand to transfer and only take one step".   I took much more than one step in front of the tribunal.
  • amarilo
    amarilo Community member Posts: 16 Listener
    Thankyou again everyone for your comments as helped me get through some of the stress, Looks like I messed it up by going myself without any advice, but didn’t think it was possible to work out like this, I will see what advice I receive but really complicated, life is to short for people to go through this it’s terrible sympathy to all who feel as I do look forward to any more posts or advice 

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