I recorded a pip assessor lying and now iv lost my award

Johnylee · November 2019

Hi everyone I'm hoping someone can help me, I had a pip assessment last week and I secretly recorded it turns out it was the right thing to do

I have now gone from higher rate daily and higher rate mobility to no daily and standard mobility. Il now receive less than 100 a month

The assessor blatantly lied, she described my upper body movements and said I was fine doing them but the reality is she didnt once ask me to do anything with my arms neck or shoulders and I can be heard saying I struggle to get dressed because of pains in arms and shoulders

I said I cant stand at the sink to wash the said I wash at the sink, she said I walked 20 metres from my seat to the assessment room but it's less than 20 metres. She said I walked 5 minutes from the car park but we didnt park in a car park

She said I have put on weight since my last assessment 2 years ago but how would she know that if shes never seen me before or even had my medical notes, I can be clearly heard saying iv lost a lot of weight because I'm on liquid diet due to severe barrett's oesophagus

I rang pip before a decision had been made and told them about the recording , 4hrs later I rang back they told me their decision which was to not award me what I'd previously been awarded

This is so wrong because a decision has been made on a false representation of me, surely this is fraud. The recording and my report is available to anyone who disbelieves me

What I'd like help with is, first who do I contact in regards to suing her and the dwp / atos, any suggestions for a solicitor?

How would approach a newspaper / tv news?

poppy123456 · November 2019

Hi,

I can't help with the suing question i'm afraid, for this you will need to get expert face to face advice.

As you secretly recorded the assessment then if you decide to request the MR then Tribunal i'm afraid you won't be able to use that recording at the Tribunal. Had you got caught secretly recording the assessment then you would have risked the assessment stopping and your file being returned to DWP and you would have very likely been refused completely. You must tell them that you're recording it and use the appropriate recording equipment, handing a copy of the tape in at the end of the assessment.

Even though you can't use the recording, your next step is to request the MR and you have 1 month of the date of the decision to request that. You should put the request in writing, stating where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

wilko · November 2019

Hello, recording your assessment was wrong and phoning DWP informing them of the recording was a mistake and you asked for your outcome. You now have to request an MR and as most MR awards remains the same so you will have to persue your case to a tribunal hearing which has a waiting time of 12 months plus. It was a foolish thing to do record with permission and then owned to the DWP and expect to have legal action taken seriously.

Johnylee · November 2019

But the assessor blatantly lied this isnt just a difference in opinion of someone's health shes blatantly lied and made things up, let's say I didnt record it how would i of gone about the upper body movements that i was never asked to do but according to her i could do fine, it never happened so what would I do had I not recorded it

They shouldn't be allowed to make things up and lie the way she has, its seriously affected my life in a very bad way

Cressida · November 2019

The problem will be the recording wont be taken into account as it wasn't done according to the rules. As far as I am aware you should have 2 identical machines and inform them beforehand.

cristobal · November 2019

@johnylee - as you have found out to your cost unfortunately there are guidelines as to recording interviews, one of which is that you must tell the assessor beforehand.

Was there a reason why you did it covertly?

Johnylee · November 2019

Iv read of similar situations and they got the recording transcribed and the tribunal accepted it in that format, whether dwp accept it under their **** rules doesnt matter it clearly proves the assessor not only made out I'm capable of movements she actually fabricated something that never happened and she shouldn't be able to get away with it

It's strange because I know someone who sued the hospital for negligence and had recordings of incidences that were secretly recorded and there was no problem so why should the dwp be different.

They might choose to ignore the evidence for helping me get my award back but surely taking this to court is a different matter

poppy123456 · November 2019

A Tribunal isn't a court and because you secretly recorded it you won't be able to use that as evidence. As @cristobal has asked, was there any reason why you did this covertly?

poppy123456 · November 2019

Johnylee said:

But the assessor blatantly lied this isnt just a difference in opinion of someone's health shes blatantly lied and made things up, let's say I didnt record it how would i of gone about the upper body movements that i was never asked to do but according to her i could do fine, it never happened so what would I do had I not recorded it

They shouldn't be allowed to make things up and lie the way she has, its seriously affected my life in a very bad way

Had you followed the rules and recorded it correctly using 2 identical tape recorders and handed 1 copy in at the end then you could have used it as evidence.

cristobal · November 2019

@Username_removed - I agree with you - the most important thing, as is often the case, is giving evidence/ examples of what you can/ can't do. Showing that the "I said, she said" between you and the assessor is wrong won't achieve this.

Can I just add something to point 1 about the assessor recording the assessment 'verbatim' as this was something that the assessment provider was keen to hide behind when I raised this with them.

Even if the assessor is summarising, to some extent, what you say it must still be accurate and in context, particularly if they subsequently rely on it to justify their conclusions.

In my case there were numerous occasions - probably about a dozen that were significant - when this wasn't the case .
For example:-

I was asked "Can you walk to the postbox" and the assessor wrote "Yes" when I said "No".

"How often do you cook your own lunch?" A "Once a week", and "very rarely" recorded as "most of the time."

"Is it your right leg or left" A "Both" - the assessor wrote "right leg only"

These responses were relied on by the assessor to justify her findings and, as you can see, they are completely wrong.

Fortunately for me this was easily corrected.

@Johnylee - I'd suggest that you ask for a MR and as Mike says give different examples justifying why you should get PIP. Try to put the recording to the back of your mind - difficult I know...

Good luck!

Johnylee · November 2019

Il try answer everyone, first of all I know it wont get me pip with the tribunal but I'm doing what I can to take this beyond that and try and bring a separate case against the assessor

My dad decided to record it because we were denied a recorded assessment

I apologise if I come across as angry but I am, she or other assessors should not be able to get away with this.

Il take all advice on board and try get a good defence and evidence ready for the tribunal as I know the MR wont be won no matter what.

I think the point of my posting this was not to fund a way to win my tribunal with the recording but to get advice on who to go to so I can bring a separate case against the assessor and atos also possibly the dwp. If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be very much appreciated.

cristobal · November 2019

@johnylee - I hope this might help...

Too late now obviously but the assessment providers, as far as I know, can't 'deny' you recording. This is because you don't need permission - you have to 'notify' them in advance, and comply with some conditions, give them a copy etc.

There are two things that you need to address now - getting the PIP award that you should, and making a complaint about the assessment.

Firstly - ask for a mandatory reconsideration and send evidence of what you can't do, what you need help with and how you manage. Use the DWP guidelines to help you so that you know exactly what they are looking for and give examples. Don't forget that you have to show that you are correct - not that the assessor is wrong (although the two might overlap)

Secondly - speaking personally I'd forget about complaining. I recorded mine - with consent - and it was done very badly. As Ive already mentioned several key points were recorded wrongly - not open to interpretation, or misunderstanding but just wrong. The examination was carried out without consent and it's clear that I was in pain.

I complained and got pages of what their procedures are, how the assessor couldn't remember - all of it was just standard stuff which didn't really address my complaint. It's fair to say I eventually got an apology of sorts...

Looking back I spent too long being angry, getting stressed and getting nowhere. I should have concentrated on being more positive and this is what I'd advise you to do.

Easier said than done though!

Good luck - ask again on here if you need help with the MR...

cristobal · November 2019

@Username_removed - hard to believe I know but I agree with you again!

It is very hard to be objective - and in my opinion this is why some of the on-line tests aren't very good as people tend to 'overmark' themselves.

In my case it turned out OK as the assessor relied heavily on what I said, or was supposed to have said, to justify the score they came to.They didn't disagree and form their own conclusions - as they are entitled to - but 'agreed' with what I had said under typical day and they had recorded wrongly. Had they said "the claimant says X, but I think Y that would be a different matter.

After a little bit of encouragement,and a period of 'that's not relevant' (which may or not be the case but it was the assessor that mentioned it in the first place) the report was re-written and everything sorted out...

poppy123456 · November 2019

Username_removed said:

The most common outcome from using these tools is a person making a claim on wholly the wrong basis or which hasn’t got a hope in hell. I’d chap;edge anyone viewing this to come back and cite a case where they scored wgat an online tool said they would.

My daughter scored exactly what i thought she'd score for her PIP claim and for her review too. For the review she scored 1 extra point for the medication prompting, which is exactly what i though but this is only because i understand the descriptors. Very few people do.

For me the PIP self test is the worst one because as you rightly pointed out that people will think they should have scored X amount of points but if they understood is correctly they won't score anything like they think they should score. Some may not even qualify at all, yet they continue to re-apply, even taking as far as Tribunal each time.

As for other benefit calculators they can be useful but only if you understand the benefits you're claiming, or if you're checking what you're claiming is correct. In this case they are only as good as the information you put into them.

trappy · September 2021

You are within your right to record any interaction with anyone, they just dont like how you caught them out, judges at tribunals should back you, if not obeying Dominic Cummings. Record any thing you like, do not listen to these subby freaks saying you broke theirules, this is different times we live in now

poppy123456 · September 2021

trappy said:

You are within your right to record any interaction with anyone, they just dont like how you caught them out, judges at tribunals should back you, if not obeying Dominic Cummings. Record any thing you like, do not listen to these subby freaks saying you broke theirules, this is different times we live in now

This thread is almost 2 years old and the OP hasn't been active since December 2019.

lemurlover · September 2021

@poppy123456 You can use a covert recording in a tribunal, at HMCTS disgression of course.

Thats not to say its encouraged, but if it shows bad faith it can certainly be useful.

Joanne99 · September 2021

Doesnt the person who does the assesment get paid more for each assesment that is failed hence why they try there best to fail and trick you everway possible reviews are saying sorry you got a dodgy assessor maybeget a letter from your doctor for your MR it wouldnt hurt good luck

lemurlover · September 2021

@Username_removed You misunderstood; I was perhaps not concise enough.

A covert recording of a HCP assessment can be used at tribunal (subject to the discretion of said tribunal.) DWP guidelines are inconsequential at that stage. I was clarifying that a covert recording can be used at tribunal.

poppy123456 · September 2021

Joanne99 said:

Doesnt the person who does the assesment get paid more for each assesment that is failed hence why they try there best to fail and trick you everway possible reviews are saying sorry you got a dodgy assessor maybeget a letter from your doctor for your MR it wouldnt hurt good luck

No, that is definitely not correct at all. I have no idea why some people continue to think this. This thread is actually almost 2 years old....

Tori_Scope · September 2021

Doesnt the person who does the assesment get paid more for each assesment that is failed hence why they try there best to fail and trick you everway possible

Hi @Joanne99,

As poppy123456 has said, there's no evidence to support this. It's important to try and ensure that all information you post on the community is correct, and backed up by evidence where possible, as stated in our house rules. It's okay to ask questions or clear up misunderstandings, but we want to avoid allowing the spread of misinformation where we can

I recorded a pip assessor lying and now iv lost my award

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