What is considered 'specialist input' for PIP — Scope | Disability forum

What is considered 'specialist input' for PIP

MangyWolf
MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
My 0 point assessment was based on being told I had no specialist input despite having not only diagnostics but multiple letters from multiple specialists.

The consultation report form acknowledged that I have been diagnosed and seen by specialists and GPs and receive ongoing care for both mental and physical health, but there is still 'no specialist input'?

I provided two references for my mental health and neither were contacted (I asked mental health services). My GP practice confirms they were never even contacted to release any of my medical records to the DWP / ATOS.

Recently I was seen in A&E and told and had it written down for my appeal 'You have already been seen by the highest level of specialist for this (rheumatologist), there is no higher specialist input you can get'.

I had not just a diagnosis but two letters of diagnostics from rheumatology and physiotherapy.

The health assessor both falsified my consent for physical tests, and made up a full page of nonsense perfect results - both the rheumatology report from before this and physiotherapy after not only disprove the health assessor's falsified claims, but are 100% unanimous with one another (mostly buggered neck, spine, wrists / grip strength).

I had already been seen by multiple mental health specialists prior to the assessment, and was waiting for new referrals after moving address, so despite having been seen just 3 months prior by a therapist in my previous city who had also advised I had to discontinue receiving care there as I was no longer in the catchment area, and was referred for services in my new area, this therefore means I had no specialist input? I had provided both that therapist and a phsycologists information for my references and I had an appointment with them regularly every 3 months back then, but neither were even contacted. Since moving there is not enough funding in my new area to receive any continued care.

I was already in receipt of higher rate daily living and lower rate mobility, both were stopped by the health assessor falsifying evidence that I was now magically cured of everything I have. My appeal is on Monday 27th over the phone and I am reading through the consultation report form again now in advance and am pretty amazed at how it says I have diagnosis by specialists but also no specialist input, and on top of that they never contacted my references or GPs and the health assessor falsified physical results that I have had disproven twice!

I also fortunately managed to get a supporting letter from a mental health nurse literally a couple of days ago that confirms not just all my mental health claims but agains mirrors every previous claim and assessment carried out under the NHS, the single only discrepancy being the health assessor pretty much saying 'He spoke to me fine, so it seems his new medication is working, therefore 0 points' in every single category for mental health, as well as using her falsified physical results for 0 points in every physical health category.

Also 'I only just moved into supported housing and am still waiting for an an assessment at home, but I still have the needs for such things now and in the past' ... 'Has no aids or adjustments, 0 points'. 2 weeks later the assessment is done and an extra handrail and bathboard are put in my house because I cannot get in and out of the bathtub without it, or navigate the turn on my stairs without a handrail.
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Comments

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,839 Disability Gamechanger
    No specialist input means that you are not currently seeing a specialist. Nothing more profound than that. However, you need to urgently refocus away from the contents of the HCP report as you're in danger of over-analysing something the tribunal will pay little regard to in most cases. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,673 Disability Gamechanger
    My OH has been awarded PIP twice now with "no specialist input" or evidence as she doesn't see anybody for her problems.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    No specialist input means that you are not currently seeing a specialist. Nothing more profound than that. However, you need to urgently refocus away from the contents of the HCP report as you're in danger of over-analysing something the tribunal will pay little regard to in most cases. 
    Wow so basically you need to always be seeing a specialist otherwise health assessors can make up whatever they want? So no past diagnostics or inputs matter at all?

    I'll be using my time over the weekend to prepare my answers for each category and try to remember not to focus on why the health assessor was wrong but simply state what my problems in each category are and why with evidence.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,839 Disability Gamechanger
    To some extent they don’t. 

    PIP is not about your medical history nor your diagnosis. 

    There’s nothing wrong with highlighting 2 or 3 irrefutable errors in a HCP report to undermine credibility but making it the sole focus of your case is potentially a mistake. Far better to focus on two real world examples per activity of stuff that actually happened when the activity was performed. 
  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    To some extent they don’t. 

    PIP is not about your medical history nor your diagnosis. 

    There’s nothing wrong with highlighting 2 or 3 irrefutable errors in a HCP report to undermine credibility but making it the sole focus of your case is potentially a mistake. Far better to focus on two real world examples per activity of stuff that actually happened when the activity was performed. 
    Thanks for the advice, my main problem before is I never really even looked at the PIP categories / criteria, and even though I have enough real examples to keep getting higher rate daily living and at least standard rate mobility, I never realized to specifically focus on these issues.

    All I really need to say to discredit the HCP is that two physical tests on the NHS before and after my health assessment already fully disprove it, and that the health assessor had written I was well kempt and looked well but I took a selfie and videos at the assessment office on the day showing that I looked like a sasquatch (I've never gotten my hair cut by someone else my whole adult life because of my autism and rarely groom myself).

    On dressing she actually put that because I said I only change my underwear on most days that I have no problem getting dressed when I don't even put on any other clothes like wow. 
  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    This is one such argument I made in my evidences I sent and I will write down to mention on the telephone:

    While I was only in my assessment for 40 mins, the HCP claimed it started at 11.58 and ended at 13.00. In this time she not only claimed to have done the whole assessment but a full suite of physical test results. When I went to see a qualified physiotherapist a few months later I showed him the health assessment report and asked him to do all those tests for me, and it took him 70 minutes with loads of specialist equipment that wasn't even in the room I had my assessment in, nor do I believe that a paramedic (the HCP) would even understand how to use all that equipment or do any of those tests. The results from the physiotherapist mirrored the ones from a year ago from a different rheumatologist at a different hospital, and a hereditary joint disease doesn't just vanish during a health assessment.

    Still kind of funny how 'I don't dress on most days and just change my underwear because of hygiene / odour' = 'changes his underwear everyday so has motivation to get dressed'. When I used to live with my family I got banned from leaving my room when they had guests because at most I would only put on a bath robe. I always needed to be told what to wear to events as a child / teen and one time at uni I became emotionally unstable and had a meltdown when my choir / orchestra teacher said we needed a shirt and bowtie and polished shoes because I didn't have any and one of my friends actually then bought me a bottle of shoe polish. Just remembered to use this example now (single focused savant level music skills but hands can't do or make what my brain can though I am trying to slowly self learn at home).
  • lisak20
    lisak20 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    MangyWolf said:
    My 0 point assessment was based on being told I had no specialist input despite having not only diagnostics but multiple letters from multiple specialists.

    The consultation report form acknowledged that I have been diagnosed and seen by specialists and GPs and receive ongoing care for both mental and physical health, but there is still 'no specialist input'?

    I provided two references for my mental health and neither were contacted (I asked mental health services). My GP practice confirms they were never even contacted to release any of my medical records to the DWP / ATOS.

    Recently I was seen in A&E and told and had it written down for my appeal 'You have already been seen by the highest level of specialist for this (rheumatologist), there is no higher specialist input you can get'.

    I had not just a diagnosis but two letters of diagnostics from rheumatology and physiotherapy.

    The health assessor both falsified my consent for physical tests, and made up a full page of nonsense perfect results - both the rheumatology report from before this and physiotherapy after not only disprove the health assessor's falsified claims, but are 100% unanimous with one another (mostly buggered neck, spine, wrists / grip strength).

    I had already been seen by multiple mental health specialists prior to the assessment, and was waiting for new referrals after moving address, so despite having been seen just 3 months prior by a therapist in my previous city who had also advised I had to discontinue receiving care there as I was no longer in the catchment area, and was referred for services in my new area, this therefore means I had no specialist input? I had provided both that therapist and a phsycologists information for my references and I had an appointment with them regularly every 3 months back then, but neither were even contacted. Since moving there is not enough funding in my new area to receive any continued care.

    I was already in receipt of higher rate daily living and lower rate mobility, both were stopped by the health assessor falsifying evidence that I was now magically cured of everything I have. My appeal is on Monday 27th over the phone and I am reading through the consultation report form again now in advance and am pretty amazed at how it says I have diagnosis by specialists but also no specialist input, and on top of that they never contacted my references or GPs and the health assessor falsified physical results that I have had disproven twice!

    I also fortunately managed to get a supporting letter from a mental health nurse literally a couple of days ago that confirms not just all my mental health claims but agains mirrors every previous claim and assessment carried out under the NHS, the single only discrepancy being the health assessor pretty much saying 'He spoke to me fine, so it seems his new medication is working, therefore 0 points' in every single category for mental health, as well as using her falsified physical results for 0 points in every physical health category.

    Also 'I only just moved into supported housing and am still waiting for an an assessment at home, but I still have the needs for such things now and in the past' ... 'Has no aids or adjustments, 0 points'. 2 weeks later the assessment is done and an extra handrail and bathboard are put in my house because I cannot get in and out of the bathtub without it, or navigate the turn on my stairs without a handrail.

  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    While continuing to go through my consultation report form, I noticed several times she had written 'picked his bag up off the floor and put his hat and coat on at the end so can do these activities fine'.

    The last time I worked in 2015 I fell over twice in one week just from putting clothes onto shelves. Recently I needed my landlord to inspect some damage in my house so I tried cleaning up before his visit, and within 10-15 minutes of light housework I had a very heavy vertigo attack and had to go to bed to relieve it. Repeated and continuous motions even just for a short time cause me to have vertigo and fall over unless I have something like a house wall to grab onto to break my fall.

    I also already sent the tribunal photos of all my shoes with orthopaedic insoles and loose lacing that allows me to use them as slip ons, because reaching down to tie laces causes severe lightheadedness and often leads to vertigo attacks as well. (Inner ear disease with hearing and balance loss on top of a hereditary joint disease that has ruined my knees and wrists the most).  
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,839 Disability Gamechanger
    You still have a fundamental issue here. You quite literally need to stop going through the HCP report and look at the second paragraph of your last post. The stories you describe there. Write them out in full i.e. everything that happened - what, when where, in front of whom, what happened next etc. and link it to the specific activity i.e. those which require short periods of activity such as dressing. 
  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    You still have a fundamental issue here. You quite literally need to stop going through the HCP report and look at the second paragraph of your last post. The stories you describe there. Write them out in full i.e. everything that happened - what, when where, in front of whom, what happened next etc. and link it to the specific activity i.e. those which require short periods of activity such as dressing. 

     Yes I am doing that, the only reason I am going through the report is so that I can go through the order of the questions and they show the descriptors, and then link these to the my examples.


  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    God damn it 11 hours to go until my telephone appeal and my stomach is getting all the quesiness and sickly stuff and so I went and ate loads of chocolate which doesn't help at all! 

    I have all my answers and examples for each category prepared and will also tell them at the start that in all my previous assessments I never even looked at the criteria or knew what to say, but I was already given PIP 3 times before at different rates and then given 0 points last time which made me look through the criteria a lot more closely.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,183

    Scope community team

    Best of luck today @MangyWolf. Please let us know how you get on. 
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  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    5 minutes to go! Waiting for the phonecall.
  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    They are late! Still waiting. I want to die. Please dont tell the police or they'll break my door down again.
  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    The assessment is over. They actually helped me a bit more in the preparing meals section - while I told them I struggle to prepare meals and cant use pots and pans due to having my joint disease in both wrists, and gave examples of dropping the pans to the ground several times and one time spilling boiling water over myself, the disability expert asked ' so how is it when you use a knife?' ... Actually I cant even grip a knife enough to put pressure on it, and like right now I use a disability vertical mouse to use the computer and even using that is still severely painful and slow and I cant put any pressure between my thumb and any finger on my right hand without too much pain, and things I try to grip like pots and pans I drop.

    I need to wait a few more days to get a decision in the post.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,183

    Scope community team

    edited April 2020
    Hi @MangyWolf. I'm sorry the whole experience has been so difficult and has had such a negative effect on your mental health and wellbeing. 
    I hope you're not kept waiting too long and your decision arrives quickly.

    How are you feeling today? If you are feeling as low as you indicated yesterday it's important that you speak to someone trained to help you. Have you spoken to Samaritans before? You can call them on 116 123 or email them on [email protected]
    Mind also have a range of resources about tackling these sorts of feelings. However, we understand that signposting to resources isn't always beneficial for everyone. While as a pan-disability charity it's fair to say complex mental health isn't our strength, we would be willing to make a social care referral on your behalf if you think that would be useful to you. Please get in touch with us at [email protected] if that's something you'd like to discuss.
    Community Manager
    Scope

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  • MangyWolf
    MangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    Talking about what I think about myself and others online again will only get me banned / police investigated again for hate speech because being a nihilistic misanthrope isn't allowed.

    2 arrests, 1 random police visit for hate speech, then my door broken down for threatening myself so far. 
  • sarahmaccs
    sarahmaccs Member Posts: 25 Connected
    @MangyWolf my brother has ADHD was to a special needs unit. has dyslexia and depression , and suffers from personality disorder. he got given 5 years and they have reviewed his award ( paper based assessment). and he’s been granted another 5 years. he didn’t have loads of evidence. we even used his old school reports which was accepted as it shows he was in a special needs unit which is a lifetime affect ( not short term ). as well as his dyslexia letters , ADHD letters, he got given it straight away. with other mental health issues which I won’t go into. 
  • rbz
    rbz Member Posts: 96 Courageous
    My case:
    Claim on 2018 PIP Assessment report shows "No specialist input" - Awarded 0 points for daily and 0 points for mobility.
    New claim on 2019 PIP Assessment report shows "Awaiting for specialist input" - Awarded 14 points for Daily and 16 points for mobility.

    In my case 2018 and 2019 health condition absolutely same.
    "No specialist input" - always means - no problems with health.

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