PIP, DLA and AA
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Failed MR

BallybladeBallyblade Member Posts: 1 Listener
Hi all! 

My son lost his DLA when he transferred to PIP. They repeatedly said that even though he told them he couldn't do x,y & z, because he turned up, dressed appropriately, attends mainstream school without the assistance of a classroom assistant, has no significant restrictions in his intellect, information processing and working memory & has a qualification in sailing (!!) it is therefore likely that he is capable of being independent and only awarded him 2 points for mixing with people, which I imagine is standard for ASD. 

In my extra evidence for the MR I went through each descriptor explaining the issues he had - which they acknowledged he had said in his f2f - and highlighted the level of support he required from myself. I submitted a supporting letter from a medical Consultant who is a family friend and knows my son well.

I asked them that if they are going to uphold the original decision, what experience & training re ASD do the assessors have has it appears they have an alarming lack of insight. I also specifically asked them why these were the only things they kept referring to and why no other areas of executive functioning were given any credence or even mentioned. They appear to have little understanding of the condition. 

Needless to say the MR came back saying the  exact same thing as the initial decision. They did not address any of the questions I asked. 

I am going to put in a formal complaint about the assessment process. As a healthcare professional I know no other assessment that totally disregards the history given by the client and goes entirely on assessing someone across a desk for less than an hour. It is total painting by numbers and I fail to see how any accountable practitioner can stand over it. 

Everyone is saying oh it's just the system but the system is flawed and unless people challenge it nothing will change!!!

Replies

  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 7,462 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Ballyblade I am sorry to hear your son's MR was not successful and no doubt you are aware only a small percentage are at this stage, not that this is right but its the truth.

    The next stage is tribunal which have a lot higher success rate.

    Lots of people make complaints and I would encourage you to do so but they all seem to fall on deaf ears.

    Lots of people are successful in their claims including myself but we dont hear much about the success stories

    Have you considered writing to your local MP 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Only about 17% of MR decisions change, so it's not surprising the decision stayed the same.

    What you need to do is state where you think he should have scored those points and your reasons why. The add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him. You said you stated he can't do xyz BUT did you state why he can't do those things?

    For example, does he need prompting to dress/undress? Do you have to remind him to change his clothes or advise him what he should wear for that particular weather? If so then tell them this, tell them what would happen if you weren't there to give him that advice.

    Whilst it's extremely annoying to see all the lies/contradictions in the report, pointing these out will not get him a PIP award because the Tribunal will not be interested in what did or didn't happen. Pointing these out will only weaken his case.

    The HCP doesn't need to have any specialist knowledge in any conditions because PIP isn't awarded based on a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors. As we are all affected differently by these conditions, it's impossible to compare 2 people.

    There's no harm in complaining about the assessment report but my advice is to concentrate on the Tribunal request first and then put in your complaint.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,412 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi all! 

    My son lost his DLA when he transferred to PIP. They repeatedly said that even though he told them he couldn't do x,y & z, because he turned up, dressed appropriately, attends mainstream school without the assistance of a classroom assistant, has no significant restrictions in his intellect, information processing and working memory & has a qualification in sailing (!!) it is therefore likely that he is capable of being independent and only awarded him 2 points for mixing with people, which I imagine is standard for ASD. 

    In my extra evidence for the MR I went through each descriptor explaining the issues he had - which they acknowledged he had said in his f2f - and highlighted the level of support he required from myself. I submitted a supporting letter from a medical Consultant who is a family friend and knows my son well.

    I asked them that if they are going to uphold the original decision, what experience & training re ASD do the assessors have has it appears they have an alarming lack of insight. I also specifically asked them why these were the only things they kept referring to and why no other areas of executive functioning were given any credence or even mentioned. They appear to have little understanding of the condition. 

    Needless to say the MR came back saying the  exact same thing as the initial decision. They did not address any of the questions I asked. 

    I am going to put in a formal complaint about the assessment process. As a healthcare professional I know no other assessment that totally disregards the history given by the client and goes entirely on assessing someone across a desk for less than an hour. It is total painting by numbers and I fail to see how any accountable practitioner can stand over it. 

    Everyone is saying oh it's just the system but the system is flawed and unless people challenge it nothing will change!!!
    Regrettably you are in danger of making all the errors we read about on here on a regular basis. Take a step back and pause for a moment. Yes there are flaws in the process and yes those ought to be challenged but your specific challenges aren’t going to change anything and they’re certainly not going to change the outcome for your son which must surely be the ultimate intent?

    All of the things you see as flaws in the HCP report are actually gaps in your evidence. You can exert energy raging against them or you can use their assertions to strengthen the case for PIP. Lodge an appeal but fill those gaps. If the claim pack had explicitly addressed why he might appear to be able to dress appropriately then they could not have said anything about it. If the claim pack had dealt with why he’s in a mainstream school without a CA they couldn’t have used that either. The HCP report has effectively told you where the gaps in your evidence are and the level of detail you will need to refute them. You now need to address those issues. It’s not all you need to do but it’s a start. Destroying the credibility of a HCP report does not get PIP. Building up your own evidence and filling in identified gains may well do. 

    The letter from the supporting medical consultant is unlikely to have helped. Are they a consultant on your sons condition? Are they his consultant? If one or both are not true then their evidence is simply hearsay. It won’t be given the weight of medical evidence because it’s no different to getting a letter from a friend or neighbour or teacher. They may know your son but they haven’t been involved in his care and likely know very little about PIP. It’s very unlikely their letter makes direct links to the specific bodily functions at issue. 

    The training and experience of a HCP in ASD is nothing to the point. DLA looks at the functional consequences of a condition not the condition itself. Those consequences are different for everybody so they’re for you to explain not the DWP to deduce. 

    Incidentally, totally off topic and I am of course being slightly flippant, but to assert you know if no other assessment which takes less than an hour and disregards history... two observations.

    1 - history is not relevant to DLA. All that matters is the level of attention or supervision needed on the date or claim; whether that passes the backwards and forwards tests and whether it’s substantially in excess of the norm for a healthy chIld of the same age. 

    2 - drawing conclusions in under an hour with a systematic for medical history? Pretty much what we ask of most GPS and hospital consultants with a 10 or 20 minute slot. It’s very easy to **** off HCPs but often misguided. 

    In essence then, by all means identify a couple of obvious flaws with the HCP report to damage its credibility but in order to get DLA you need to build up the case for DLA with anecdotal evidence. A case against a HCP is not grounds for an award of DLA.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi all! 

    My son lost his DLA when he transferred to PIP. They repeatedly said that even though he told them he couldn't do x,y & z, because he turned up, dressed appropriately, attends mainstream school without the assistance of a classroom assistant, has no significant restrictions in his intellect, information processing and working memory & has a qualification in sailing (!!) it is therefore likely that he is capable of being independent and only awarded him 2 points for mixing with people, which I imagine is standard for ASD. 

    In my extra evidence for the MR I went through each descriptor explaining the issues he had - which they acknowledged he had said in his f2f - and highlighted the level of support he required from myself. I submitted a supporting letter from a medical Consultant who is a family friend and knows my son well.

    I asked them that if they are going to uphold the original decision, what experience & training re ASD do the assessors have has it appears they have an alarming lack of insight. I also specifically asked them why these were the only things they kept referring to and why no other areas of executive functioning were given any credence or even mentioned. They appear to have little understanding of the condition. 

    Needless to say the MR came back saying the  exact same thing as the initial decision. They did not address any of the questions I asked. 

    I am going to put in a formal complaint about the assessment process. As a healthcare professional I know no other assessment that totally disregards the history given by the client and goes entirely on assessing someone across a desk for less than an hour. It is total painting by numbers and I fail to see how any accountable practitioner can stand over it. 

    Everyone is saying oh it's just the system but the system is flawed and unless people challenge it nothing will change!!!
    In essence then, by all means identify a couple of obvious flaws with the HCP report to damage its credibility but in order to get DLA you need to build up the case for DLA with anecdotal evidence. A case against a HCP is not grounds for an award of DLA.
    Great advise as always @mikehughescq however, the son was transfering from DLA to PIP. It makes no differnce i know but just incase the OP thinks it does.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,412 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, thanks @poppy123456. Consequences of a long day and late night.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    Welcome to the community @Ballyblade, thank you for taking the time to share this with us. I hope you and your son are well. Please do let us know how you get on and if there is anything you need clarifying. :)
    Community Partner
    Scope

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  • katho31katho31 Member - under moderation Posts: 694 Pioneering
    Hi @Ballyblade and hope you are both well, we are all here  :) best wishes
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