Greetings Earthlings! - Page 3 — Scope | Disability forum
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Greetings Earthlings!

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  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    I'm not a violent thug though :)
  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    Most of My anger is borne out of frustration
  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    DWP just phoned Me after the email I sent to Therese Coffey (DWP minister) yesterday, they said they are going to be looking into the stuff I outlined in My email. I asked if Therese was going to be picking up the case at all and they said they investigate it first, so that's a no then. How is anything ever going to get changed if You can't get to the person at the top? I said even if the decision goes My way I still want to sort it out so other People don't have to go through that......
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,007 Disability Gamechanger
    @KingKongsFinger - I can only endorse what @Username_removed has said. People here, myself included, will offer support. However, sometimes the hardest thing is to be objective. I speak from personal experience having lost our youngest daughter, & in order to find out more in order to help my surviving children, I had to be objective, in my case researching the then available medical literature. I can assure you it was the hardest thing I ever did.
    I read through your posts, & felt I couldn't comment; Mike has commented wholly appropriately in order to try & help you more. I don't have his knowledge, but, having read many of his posts, appreciate his discerning advice, & urge you to take this onboard. So, if I can add anything, it's to say Mike, may indeed help you with his objective advice.
  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited August 2020
    @Username_removed Hello, thanks for the reply!

    First of all I'm shocked that you seemingly think that these "tribunals" are fair and I do not like the way You insinuate that it is all My fault, that is not very helpful at all. I did submit plenty of evidence, in the form of medical notes and xrays and also letters from family members and friends, it was all ignored, what other information is there? Secondly, no of course I do not know how a tribunal works, why would I if I have never been to one before? Thirdly and it is not right to send People who have communication, interpretation and anxiety difficulties in completely unprepared with no clue, that simply should not be allowed. One should never assume knowledge.

    I'm not sure why on Earth someone trying to highlight failings or concerns to a departmental minister or contacting an MP would be detrimental, if this is the case then what's the point in having MP's, ministers or complaints processes at all? If there is a problem surely the way to deal with is to contact the People in charge?

    As for the rest, it sounds like You are really on their side. I'm not tyring to "bend" anything to My will, I am asking for fairness, which I have not received. You are entirely wrong about the bad photocopy thing, I had just one months notice to compile My extra evidence and I struggled to do it in that time, I sent the extra evidence in one week before the hearing as stipulated, on the Monday, and I recieved the bad copies back on the Friday, thus I could not do anything about it until the following Monday, one day before the hearing. I rang to complain on that Monday prior to the hearing and also sent an email on that Monday so I'm not sure how You can say that I'm only complaining after?! Yes I was offered an adjournment but did not think I would need it as the evidnece was plentiful, had they chosen to use it.

    You say "tribunals are inquisitorial not adversarial. There is no prosecution or defence. The only person being inquired of is you", so why do both parties have to send evidence in, this makes no sense?! So do they take the dwp report as gospel and only interrogate Me, that doesn't sound very fair to Me?! If the evidence is there in the form of medical notes etc then why is there a need to be inquisitorial, all of the information is there?!

    I'm sorry but implying that someone's anger problems do not count becuase they are sometimes not outside My house when the descriptor says "occassionally has outbursts of uncontrollable aggression that would be unnacceptable in any workplace" is definitley misinterpreting the descriptor, the descriptor does not say anything about being inside or outside.

    The main problem I have is You cannot only scrutinise one side, that is wholly unfiar, I am after all, appealing the original decision, it says that in all of the literature "what to do if You think a decision is wrong" etc etc. The other problem I have is that by not giving People the chance to dispute the facts in the original decision You are allowing incorrect information to be recorded and whichever way You dress that up it is wrong. If the original decision is based on untruths then that needs to be looked at.

    I have taken onboard what You say but I will still be pursuing change on these unfair and one-sided "tribunals", even if the decision goes My way, I thought I would get some support here but clearly no-one is interested in trying to address these issues......


  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    And MIke, the information is usually inadequate because I get little to no support from the gp's/physio etc, all they do is write those crappy letters that say "you told us this and You told us that", this has been a theme My whole life......
  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering

    Inquisitorial tribunals - both parties send evidence in precisely because tribunals are inquisitorial. They are enquiring not interrogating. Their role is to weigh all the evidence from both sides; make findings of fact (often on the balance of probabilities) and then apply the law to the facts they have found. In your case you keep insisting the evidence is there. Given the outcome of your claims at some point you have to entertain the idea that actually it is not.


    They have not done that......

  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    And I don't have any anecdotal evidence that is recent, I have hardly left the house for the last year......
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,007 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2020
    @KingKongsFinger - Submitting loads of medical evidence is unlikely to help at a tribunal stage as any diagnosis will unlikely be disputed. X rays certainly don't scan well, unfortunately. The 'other' evidence that is there, is your anecdotal evidence.
    Tribunals are inquisatorial, as they hope to find out more about any problems you have concerning your ability to work, or not. The DWP is not being questioned, you are, as the claimant.
    It's a shame you feel you haven't got support here, as I feel this has been offered, & I'm not sure what better form of support you could receive than Mike's advice.
    It's understandable you don't know how a tribunal works, nor do many other members, but Mike does.
    There's probably not much doubt that people with 'communication, interpretation and anxiety difficulties' together with some of those with mental health issues, find form filling, assessments & tribunals even more difficult, & may need further advice without this forum, & representation.
    You mention about GPs/physio writing saying, 'you told us this...& that.' Your GP or physio just writing about the information you've given them, just repeating your words, then isn't much good as evidence, if they are unable to give an individual specialist opinion.
    Again, I do urge you to be objective; stand back & listen to the advice you have been given.
    The DWP give info as to what to do if a decision is wrong, however it doesn't give guidance as to how to do that, which Mike does. Perhaps consider that.

    Sorry, I didn't realise Mike had replied again, & I'm slow to type. I doubt anecdotal evidence is considered only if you've left your home. You need to say why you hardly leave the house....the consequence, as you mentioned above, if you do so, etc.

  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited August 2020
    My condidtion is permanent and very unlikely to get any better, in fact with the noted osteperosis it's very likely it's going to get worse. I cannot mentally handle having to be re-assessed every year or two. The bit I find really harsh is that I do want to work but there are very few things I can do and I have to limit the hours I do to about 12 hours a week but the jobcentre were not happy with this, because they know dam well that it's virtually impossible to find a job for those hours and with the physical limitations that I have. They do need to bend a bit I'm afraid.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,328 Disability Gamechanger
    I totally agree that the anecdotal evidence is always the best. In March this year i was sent a ESA50 form, my 4th one since 2012/13. I have no medical evidence because the only person i see regularly now is my GP because i've been discharged from everywhere else, as there's nothing more they can do.

    All i sent was my prescription list.... the rest was anecdotal evidence, which gave me a paper based assessment for the 2nd time. Decision was to remain in the Support Group.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • KingKongsFinger
    KingKongsFinger Community member Posts: 62 Pioneering
    edited August 2020
    I tried negotiating with the jobcentre originally on hours and they would not let Me go below 20 hours a week, yet I know People who work 16 hours a week and claim UC and they aren't even disabled. The other thing is that the dwp and these "assessors" seem to have it down as a "no capability for work assessment" when it is a "LIMITED CAPABILITY for work assessment". So surely with a limited capability for work assessment, if the client scores any points at all they should be allowed to restrict their hours to whatever they deem they are capable of? I am still being expected to work for 40 hours a week which IS A RISK TO MY PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH. I did not score any points for any of the physical descriptors which for someone in My condition is very odd indeed given the fact that a lot of the time I can't even walk to the toilet, which is about 5 metres away. The variability is what they seem to be having a problem with, that and the lack of gp support, at least that's what I've indentified as differences between Me and other People I know who have been signed off by their doctors for 5 years. My back problems are as such that I can be fine (ish) one day and totally unable to walk the next and this is exertion/time based, that is to say the more I do the worse it gets, to the point of debilitation.
  • katho31
    katho31 Posts: 692 Pioneering
    So very upset and sorry for the clearly vulnerable persons posting on this forum. Most of the people are helpful and feel your pain and clear anguish with your situations, please know that we are here for you all and understand that we care and want to help.
  • atlas47
    atlas47 Community member Posts: 238 Pioneering
    Hi @katho31

    I think this thread has ran it’s course and will ask Scope to close it down.

    We are all living in the biggest lockdown in generations and are all suffering both mentally and physically.

    Respect and human decency to all, who have posted on this thread.

    We are all better United than divided.

    Best wishes 
  • Lou67
    Lou67 Community member Posts: 6,608 Disability Gamechanger
    Maybe it’s because I agree with what was sd, that’s why I like it, and I’m so aware of Scope watching everything 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,328 Disability Gamechanger
    Just as i've advised many times, if you don't like a members comments then put them on ignore, if you choose not to do this then you'll continue to see their comments.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
This discussion has been closed.

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