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Warnings on alcohol

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  • Caz_Alumni
    Caz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 621 Pioneering
    This is a really important thread and it raises a number of issues. To me, there's no easy solution and there's no single right way to try and tackle the problems that drinking can cause. I suppose it depends on whether we view the problem as being one of individual responsibility, or collective social responsibility, or indeed both. 

    Just doing a bit of online reading, I did come across a website, Alcohol Change UK, with links to some interesting research that's been carried out recently and which touches on some of the points that people have already made. 

    There's a report on alcohol labelling, called Drinking in the Dark, and also a report on the Office for National Statistics' recent figures on alcohol-specific deaths. Both of which make sobering reading. And that's not a pun. 

    Also, given the nature of the conversation, I did just want to add in a link to the NHS webiste on Alcohol Support, just in case anybody is concerned that they might be experiencing an issue around alcohol. If you are at all worried about this issue, then please do seek some support. 

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  • Pattaylor89
    Pattaylor89 Community member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi new to the Community. If you live in the Hull area and are experiencing a problem with Alcohol or know someone who is, there is an Organisation called Renew. It helps Alcoholics and Drug Addicts as well their family if they feel in need of it. I know this because my partner is what is termed as a Functioning Alcoholic. I go to Renew for Support and it really helps me. As for warnings I really don't think they would take any notice. I don't know what the answer is. But I do know that unless they want to stop and have the willpower to do it. Then no amount of warnings or restrictions will stop them. I also don't think most people who aren't dependant would heed the warnings. Most would think it won't happen to me, then before they know it's got a hold of them. 
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  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Community member Posts: 29 Connected
    Evening all.

    As an alcoholic now in recovery (I attend AA meetings, but this isn’t for everyone, and you have to want to be sober for it to work, which some people simply don’t want) I find this thread extremely interesting.

    I’m not sure that warning labels would make any difference to the people who are drinking in a way which is damaging to them - I know when I was drinking (and smoking) I wouldn’t have cared at all what the bottle or can said.

    As for limiting the amount people can buy through some tech system, I think this would be detrimental to alcoholics who have yet to find or are unable or not interested in getting sober. I appreciate it’s a hideous disease (my mother was also and alcoholic, and died 11 years ago from the illness) but if you try and stop and alcoholic from drinking as much as they physically need it can lead to DTs and death.

    I think, seeing the recent reports, that lockdown has caused a lot of people to drink during what has been the biggest and most insane mental upset this country has seen in a few generations. I would hope, as people begin to socialise normally again, this will settle back down. 

    For those people who are not alcoholics, I would hope the information about the dangerous of heavy drinking could be made more well known, perhaps with ad campaigns, which, in my opinion, should replace the glamourised adverts we currently have displaying alcohol as being a classy and fun thing to do. I also feel that “multi buy” offers from super markets are potentially damaging, as again it portrays that this is a normal amount of alcohol to buy, not paying attention to units etc - which again is not an easy system to understand. 

    I believe attitudes will change, as they have with smoking. 

    Anyway! Thanks for the interesting insight. 
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  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Community member Posts: 29 Connected
    @Username_removed

    I find your point interesting, and as a recovered/recovering alcoholic I agree with you! 

    My brain can get addicted to anything - alcohol, food, shopping, video games - it’s not the substance, but what it does in that it makes me ‘feel better’ - and I know this is true with many addicts and alcoholics and it’s very common to see one addiction replace another, until we learn how to manage this behaviour. 
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  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Scope Member Posts: 49,777 Disability Gamechanger
    I can see all your points, that can be said for certain medication too, but my question is why do these carry warnings and with tobacco gruesome pictures? If addiction only effects certain people? Also why is alcohol omitted these same warnings on bottles etc? When all 3 ive mentioned can cause ill effect. 
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  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Community member Posts: 29 Connected
    @Sandy_123

    Not a question I know the answer to I’m afraid, but it’s definitely an interesting one to ponder. I suppose it’s quite hard to put a picture of alcoholism on a bottle, and alcohol is a very culturally acceptable thing, where as smoking for example has become a cultural no no. 

    Things may change in the future. 
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike we will have to agree to disagree 
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    @Dusty_Hammer I am also a recovering alcohol I have been dry since age of 18 I was an alcoholic  fom 16 to 18 
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    They say though that your always going to be a alcoholic  but your just not drinking  I havent wanted a drink I stopped smoking 12 years ago but I sometimes when I am realy stressed out I feel like a cigarette I just put a lolly in my mouth ha ha I wouldn't start smoking again now my lungs wouldn't take it after haveing corona virus 
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    I have a question  if you were in a job where you sold alcohol and a person had alcohol but you knew this person was drunk would you sell it to them ??
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  • Ami2301
    Ami2301 Community member Posts: 7,942 Disability Gamechanger
    lisathomas50 said:
    I have a question  if you were in a job where you sold alcohol and a person had alcohol but you knew this person was drunk would you sell it to them ??
    When I was a cashier, if a customer was clearly drunk then we would refuse the sale.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
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  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Community member Posts: 3,127 Connected
    Ami2301 said:
    lisathomas50 said:
    I have a question  if you were in a job where you sold alcohol and a person had alcohol but you knew this person was drunk would you sell it to them ??
    When I was a cashier, if a customer was clearly drunk then we would refuse the sale.
    Snap. I worked as a team leader than  department manager in one of the big supermarkets several years ago and we would refuse the sale. 
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  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Scope Member Posts: 49,777 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2021
    Again, this is a misconception. The warnings on medication and cigarettes are not generally about addiction. They are about dude effects and long term consequences. You will do well to find warnings on many medicines about addiction because those things are not addictive. Withdrawal can be difficult and needs to be managed but that’s not the same as addiction. It’s an issue many people  confuse..... @Username_removed
    (Q) So if it's about side effects and long term consequences, then why still is alcohol omitted? As it causes these said things with health 
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike I read the thread but it's not a  conspiracy theory it's real and happening to people 
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    alcohol is addictive  so its an addiction 
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  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Community member Posts: 29 Connected
    Username_removed said:
    A useful point being made which references in passing how disbelief was sewn about issues smoking. Similar issues with the alcohol industry. 

    I actually have a copy of the Times newspaper from 9th July 1956 which has an article in saying scientists have found NO LINK between smoking and cancer - so often the facts an entire industry are based on can be wrong, and can be changed. 
    I think the damaged cause by alcohol in excess, while it can be very physical (failing liver, muscle wasting, DTs etc) - the primary “side effect” caused by excess drinking is a cultural and family one - a mental one if you will - that impacts other people on a greater level to the over drinker/alcoholic (I say this from my own perspective only - although my active alcoholism was mentally damaging to me, it was much much worse for those around me) - the same went for my mother’s alcoholism. She was, without a shadow of a doubt, a broken women, but it absolutely destroyed me as a small child - and THEN the physical effects killed her, only by the time I was 20. 

    It’s hard to see alcoholism when it doesn’t directly effect you or your family - whereas the cancer caused by smoking was happening to nearly ALL smokers, with out prejudice, so it couldn’t be ignored anymore. 

    Alcoholism can be ignored to some degree, because it’s definitely not the normal behaviour regarding alcohol consumption 
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  • spankie76
    spankie76 Community member Posts: 30 Connected
    Mmmm I had to think hard about this one. As someone who has been addicted to both alcohol and various drug in the past, no amount of labeling would stop me as it made me feel part of something. 

    I think the main issue is how we as a people treat everything now a days. If you look at some of the isolated tribes, they all use drugs and alcohol but its the way they use it that makes the difference. There are rituals and meaning attached to taking things like that which we don't have any more.

    I know this is quite simplified and there's more involved (the industry itself, taxes, social issues). They understood the difference between use and abuse in all aspects of life.

    This is just my opinion though and there is more I could say but im a talker more than a texter (is that a word?). 
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  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Scope Member Posts: 49,777 Disability Gamechanger
    An interesting article from scientists i just read
    https://www.banyanmass.com/2020/01/08/new-discoveries-about-alcoholisms-origins-in-the-brain/
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  • Ross_Alumni
    Ross_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,652 Disability Gamechanger
    I've enjoyed reading and following along on this thread, there have been so many interesting points of view, and I thank those of you who have openly and honestly shared your personal experience on the subject, I hope that you all have received, or are receiving, the necessary support to overcome any struggle you have had relating to alcohol.

    Back to the original question, I would be in favour of having warnings on alcohol bottles. While there is clearly a debate over whether or not it's actually addictive, I think that the profound impact it can have on individuals and those around them would justify it. 

    I have just read this article from Alcohol Change UK which I found very interesting. It made me consider the many variables that can be going on in a person's life around the time that they consume alcohol, and the reasons for which they can become dependant, or reliant, on it.

    Of course, each situation will be unique, and I think it's important to always consider the individuals involved and whether they would consider themselves to be addicted or not. From my experience addiction, dependency, reliance (whatever you want to call it) can be a sliding scale, meaning that the person involved isn't fully dependant or not dependent at all, it can fluctuate based on certain events which alter a person's mood.

    As mentioned, that's just based on my own thoughts and personal experience with loved ones. The scientific angle is certainly an interesting one, and I'm happy for the conversation to carry on (providing you have more to say of course) if everybody remains respectful of one another's opinions on the topic. It can be a sensitive issue and I think it should be approached with consideration and empathy.
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  • Lisatho11987777
    Lisatho11987777 Scope Member Posts: 5,911 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Ross_Scope thank you  I started the thread as myself and zany have had a few private discussions  about it  we just wanted people's opinions our suggestion was to put labels on alcohol  but it has also brought out some other good suggestions 

    Such as instead of showing the glamour of alcohol but the health impact alcohol has 

    Mike also had a good suggestion  about restricting alcohol  it was a good idea and from that it would be easier if the government put limits on how much alcohol a person can buy  to make it harder to buy alcohol  pubs can control how much some one drinks but only to the point where the person is falling down drunk 

    I think there should be more education on the damage alcohol does  I have recently started working in a petrol station that sell alcohol we are  24 rs  I have to ask for identification if they dint look old enough 

    I am shocked at the amount of spirits this age group between 18 and 24 drink  in one night I sold 12 bottles of vodka 16 bottles of gin 28 crates of Stella 12 bottles of wine  we get print outs of what we sell  I was quite shocked  thats between the hours of 10pm and 6am I know its not alot on the bigger scale but if they have identification I cant refuse to sell and it saddens me to see as young as 18 drinking  spirits we also sell the odd bottle of jack Daniels 

    I personally think the age should be moved to 21 for both alcohol and cigarettes what fo there think 

    The monster drink you have to show identification  if they don't look old enough  or any type if drink like that 
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