Anonymously share your thoughts to help telephone and video assessments improve

JS69 · August 2021

poppy123456 said:

JS69 said:

In the assessment just because my son could could open a packet of crisps was enough to say he could feed himself ??‍♀️ The facts ignored were he can’t use a knife, he’s afraid of heat and fire so won’t use a cooker or a microwave and anything he does do in the kitchen he needs guidance and support but that scored 0 points when the descriptors should score for ‘help and supervision’

Did you explain why he can't do that activity? Why does he need supervision? What would happen if he didn't have that supervision? Give a couple of real world examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity. Do all of this for each descriptor that applies to him. You should have at least 1 A4 sheet of paper for each activity.

You have to explain everything in as much detail as possible. They don't know your son, so you have to "paint the picture"

Yep, he said it all and why he couldn’t do these things as they wouldn’t let me speak as his appointee. He explained that he loses concentration and wanders off and how he doesn’t realise heat and cold amongst other things. Also because he did his GCSE’s without a EHCP he’s perfectly fine, what they didn’t listen to was that it took me 11 years to get his diagnosis so by that time it was too late, the school failed him and if it hadn’t been for me telling them
i was going higher he would not have got the laptop or extended times on his exams. It took his school 2 years to send back a report that they ‘lost’ in their office. So now after losing at tribunal he doesn’t want to try again for PIP he’s like what’s the point no one has ever believed me

Tori_Scope · August 2021

Hi all,

Firstly, thank you all for sharing your experiences of assessments so far

Through sharing your experiences, you're helping Scope to understand what disabled people really think so that we can feed this back to the DWP and hopefully bring about some positive change.

As this thread was started for people to share their personal experiences and opinions we want to try and allow the discussion to flow as much as possible, so long as the comments are on-topic. Just to remind anyone who doesn't want to scroll all the way to the top, the question is:

“How could we improve telephone and video assessments, including making sure they are as accurate as possible?”

If you’ve had a telephone or video assessment, please tell us how you think it could’ve been better. This could be anything about how the assessment was conducted, for example reasonable adjustments, the role of your support network/advocates, the questions asked, the length of the assessment and so on.

This could also include any changes prior to the assessment, such as the information you received, which would have improved your experience of the assessment.

On the point about the qualifications and expertise held by health professionals (HPs) who carry out PIP assessments:

All HPs recruited for the delivery of PIP assessments (or any parts of these) must meet the following requirements:

be an occupational therapist, nurse, physiotherapist, paramedic or doctor

be fully registered with the relevant licensing body (doctors must have a licence to practise)

have no sanctions attached to registration unless they relate to disability. In individual cases, this requirement may be wavered subject to prior written agreement with DWP

have at least 2 years post full registration experience (this refers to either UK registration or equivalent overseas registration for non-UK HPs) or less than 2 years post full registration experience by individual, prior, written agreement with the department

have passed a Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) check

Before they are approved to carry out assessments, providers must be able to demonstrate that HPs:

have appropriate knowledge of the clinical aspects and likely functional effects of a wide range of health conditions and disabilities

have appropriate skills in assessing people with physical health conditions, including history taking, observation and ability to perform a relevant examination

have appropriate skills in assessing people with conditions affecting mental, intellectual and cognitive function, including history taking, observation and ability to perform a relevant examination

are able to critically evaluate evidence and use logical reasoning to provide accurate evidence based advice

have excellent interpersonal and written communication skills that include the ability to:

interact sensitively and appropriately, with particular regard for an individual’s cultural background and issues specific to disabled people

take a comprehensive, appropriately focused and clear history

accurately record observations and formal clinical findings

produce succinct, accurate reports in plain English, fully justifying conclusions from evidence gathered, and dealing appropriately with apparent conflicts of evidence and fluctuating conditions

Taken from: PIP assessment guide part 3: health professional performance (gov.uk).

If you don't feel as though you were awarded the benefit, or level of benefit, that you're entitled to, you can look into appealing the decision. There's a list of benefits you can appeal on the gov.uk website.

Challenging a Universal Credit (UC) decision (Citizens Advice)
Challenging a PIP decision (Turn2Us)
Challenging an ESA decision (Turn2Us)

If you feel as though you need some support in relation to challenging your decision, the following resources may be helpful:

If you're challenging a PIP decision, it's worth re-reading the descriptors (pipinfo.net) to identify where you should have scored points.

As has been stated in this thread a few times, PIP is awarded based on how your condition affects you in relation to the descriptors, rather than a diagnosis. Many people find that anecdotal evidence works best, as giving real examples of how your condition affects you in terms of a specific descriptor should demonstrate most clearly why you should score points in that area.

The 'additional information' section at the bottom of this page (Benefits and Work) is also useful in understanding what some of the key terms mean, such as reliably, safely, and so on.

If you have experiences, questions, or opinions unrelated to the question that you'd like to share, please feel free to start your own discussion.

I'd also remind everyone to have a read of our house rules. These outline the importance of ensuring your tone is friendly and polite, as well as making sure that any information you share is correct and evidence is provided where possible.

Thanks again to everyone who's shared their opinion so far. I hope that this can continue to be a constructive and positive thread for you all to share your experiences and make your voices heard.

Tori_Scope · August 2021

Hi @dawnsaf

I'm sorry to hear that you've felt as though you can't continue on at times. I've sent you an email from community@scope.org.uk, so please do take a look at that when you get a moment.

JS69 · August 2021

It’s all well and good weather these HCP have these qualifications it’s weather they put it into practice at assessments and not bypass what the client is saying to them. I find they pick up on certain terminology but disregard the obvious on what makes people’s lives a struggle.

I had to go to tribunal myself for fibromyalgia and I luckily won. The HCP said because I worked part time I was fine, what they didn’t listen to was how my body was after I had worked, which I explain and again at tribunal. My thoughts were in the HCP’s head that disabled people shouldn’t be able to work. I explained that if I didn’t work 2 days a week part time my mental health would suffer more. I needed to see other people instead of 4 walls.

JPW · August 2021

The system of appeal is flawed and elongated. You are waiting an eternity have to prove your being discriminated against and challenge the law which is basically impossible. I’ve tried anecdotal it works against you. They always refer to the descriptors that are based on mostly physical disability not those attributed to sensory etc with autism.

It doesn’t take account of the spectrum of a discriptor. Maybe not being able to walk 50’metres make you fit but equally walking too much to overcome anxiety is equally debilitating. If it’s like 3-4 hours. How does that not qualify or show that this person will obviously struggle to hold down a full time job.

poppy123456 · August 2021

JPW said:

The system of appeal is flawed and elongated. You are waiting an eternity have to prove your being discriminated against and challenge the law which is basically impossible. I’ve tried anecdotal it works against you. They always refer to the descriptors that are based on mostly physical disability not those attributed to sensory etc with autism.
It doesn’t take account of the spectrum of a discriptor. Maybe not being able to walk 50’metres make you fit but equally walking too much to overcome anxiety is equally debilitating. If it’s like 3-4 hours. How does that not qualify or show that this person will obviously struggle to hold down a full time job.

The descriptors are also aimed at mental health, including Autism and learning disabilities. My daughter has both and claims Enhanced for both parts and has done since 2017.

The moving around part of mobility doesn't apply to those with Autism or mental health etc.The following and planning a journey is for those with these conditions.

PIP isn't about not being able to work either.

Cher_Alumni · August 2021

@JS69 I can empathise, I've been through the PIP assessment process myself and had many tears/moments of frustration having been unsuccessful.

Unfortunately HCP's (who are generally trained) can't realistically have insight into how every condition impacts the person before them. This means the onus is on the claimant to describe in detail how they struggle to satisfy the PIP activities listed, including the seemingly obvious - which to the claimant living with an impairment is very obvious(!) - but to someone without lived experience would be otherwise unknown.

To quote a recent reply by @Adrian_Scope:

Imagine you're someone else reading [the claim form], someone who can't relate to your experiences and has no understanding of you, has never heard of your conditions, doesn't know your history. Would they understand how your daily living and mobility are impacted? Is there anything they could incorrectly assume that needs more clarification? What assumptions might they make from what you've written? It may seem obvious to you but would it be to someone else?

I'm sorry to hear the comment made about you working part-time by the HCP. Everyone has a right to work irrespective of health status and I can imagine how frustrating that was to hear. Good to hear you won the tribunal - well done on persevering

Cress · August 2021

I've had paper based assessment for WCA and telephone assessment for PIP.
I was successful in both claims.
I know there are an endless stream of people who find it very hard and stressful myself included.
But I don't know what the alternative should be.

I also think it's very worrying that two people affected as badly as each other could end up with one of them scoring zero and the other enhanced because one of them was better able to understand and complete the form.

There needs to be changes but I'm at a loss as to what they should be.

bonniebohemian · September 2021

I recently had an appeal court phone hearing, the DWP had made four submissions in the year leading uo to this hearing, I knew they were lying in these and at the hearing I could prove it......."we accept that" is what the DWP said at the hearing........Now you would think that HM courts would say well Mr DWP I dismiss your case because you based it on falsehoods............but yes you have guessed it, great British Justice found in favour of the lying underhand devious DWP......the independent court set up by the govt to brainwash the plebs that they have a chance of justice is no more independent than my big toe..........dont be fooled they are crooks of the highest calibre.......if they had of bothered to make one telephone assessment in the last 20 years all the above could have been prevented.....good luck everyone with British justice you will need it

3358thanks · September 2021

I am waiting for my second tribunal and I am not attending as I think it went against me. I look well but I have panic attacks and dreadful anxiety. I am 65 and at 14 years old I was close to bombs in Belfast. And from then on I suffered agoraphobia. My life just stopped. After several years I signed myself off the sick against my GP s wishes and managed to start building a life. Read a lot of books and read articles re my illness and volunteered for work at a charity and continued to study and got a degree.
My GP filled out my dla form as I could not travel on public transport.
Had the lowest payment for life. But then had to apply for PIP. the assessor told a lot of lies and I had provided all my medical records. I am still working because the government changed the pension age. I feel worthless, stupid and to top it all the tribunal said I walked my dog I haven't got a ?
On the way out a man told me I should use the lift as that is how they watch you. He has full PIP and knew all the tricks that they use. I was upset and cried during the tribunal because I felt I was on trial.
Criminals get better treatment and get help from legal aid. I have quoted cases in law for my next tribunal and will continue to fight. DWP should be scrapped the way they treat people.

poppy123456 · September 2021

@3358thanks Paper based hearings for Tribunals have a very low success rate of between 5-8%. I would urge you to have a re-think on this to give yourself the best chance of success.

Appearing in person/telephone hearings have a 70%+ success rate. If you can get representation then even better. For this start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

Not sure what you mean by "all the tricks they use"

[Deleted User] · September 2021

so true,these assessments are cruel,its annoying to think that they say you look well,are you suppose to turn up in a bin bag, for them to believe you.Its because of having hidden disabilities,your hurting on the inside,what people cannot see,depression,anxiety,pain in back,legs,and so on.Why should we have to keep fighting,when our disabilities,pains,are genuine and mental health,which most of them gets worse with age,we get treated like a nobody in the assessments,they try and trick you out.Everybody should be treated with respect.something need to change.

Lisatho11987777 · September 2021

Lots of people have papper based assessments if this makes you feel more comfortable I think its personal choice from experience and from helping others pip isn't an easy benefit to claim

I found face to face and telephone assessments daunting and stressful I did paper based with supporting evidence I javent had to do assessments for a long time as I have been awarded a long award which I am realy grateful for

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