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PIP report suggests 0 points in some areas. What should I do next? I'm already struggling with money

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  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 2021
    @mikehughescq

    It's about context I think

    One 'inaccuracy' is fine. Everyone makes mistakes. Maybe they were’nt listening. Maybe it's just a typo.

    Two, or three 'inaccuracies' - you could say the same. Maybe they didn't listen lots of times? Maybe they’re not a very good assessor.

    Many more than that begins to raise suspicions

    Saying 'X spend a lot of his free time reading classical literature' is harder to explain. It wasn't misheard because I said nothing like this but maybe they got me confused with the previous person. Or cut and paste from somewhere else. This happened more than once

    Add in the fact that ‘most of the time’ or ‘nearly every day’ is summarised on every occasion as ‘one to two days a week’ and you start to get even more suspicious.

    Without being picky there were probably more than thirty to forty serious ‘inaccuracies.’

    No-one is that incompetent. A ten year old child could have done better.It’s a while ago now but I remember I worked out that, statistically, the report would have been more accurate if it had been filled in by someone who didn’t know me and just guessed my reply.

    That’s why they’re lies Mike although I’m sensing that I’ll struggle to convince you. Stick with ‘mistakes’ if you prefer - others will make there own minds up.

    Finally you're gettting confused about 'assertions' - if you can hold a phone I agree it's quite likely that you can wash your hair.  If the assessor says that then no problem. The classical literature example I gave is a lie - because I never said it  not because I do or do not like reading.

    To repeat I posted this because it is important to understand that, sometimes, assessors do lie and that people who assert that shouldn’t just be dismissed.



  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 2021
    @Username_removed - you're still confusing fact with opinion so it's time to move on I think. People can judge for themselves...

    This is why it’s important, in my opinion anyway.

    One of the questions was something like (I can’t remember exactly now but I've got the recording somewhere)

    “Can you walk as far as the church?”

    “No”

    There are two churches - the nearest being probably forty yards up a steep hill; furthest being about half a mile but downhill.

    The assessor wrote “X says that he can walk to the church which is about one hundred yards”

    This is factually wrong because I never said it and the church isn't one hundred yards - it's practically opposite.

    The assessor can conclude what they like based on me not being able to walk forty yards uphill - they've got lots of other things to take into account (for example it's further to get to my car)

    The reason that I challenged this, along with numerous other ‘errors’, is that I wanted anyone reading the report to have an accurate version of what took place. I felt that if I kept quiet then they would accept what I had allegedly said as fact and this might affect a subsequent review. I didn't dispute anyone's opinion.

    I didn’t rant and rave, nor want anyone to be sacked, I didn’t even want anymore money, just accuracy.

    To finish on a positive note though - the report was so inaccurate that the assessment provider had to get someone to rewrite it.







  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughes - I'm sorry that you don't understand but I can't see how to make it simpler. Essentially not writing down what I say is fine, so is paraphrasing provided the meaning remains the same. What is not acceptable is saying that someone said X when they said Y. Can you not see that?

    You're also confused - and the fault is mine most likely - about my motive for asking for the report to be changed. I was happy with the award, I wasn't looking to get anymore money and when you say that the the decision was likely to remain the same I always expected that. All that I wanted was that the 'errors' were corrected for the reasons I gave above. From memory I picked about ten of the really significant ones. I didn't ask for the report to be completley re-written just corrected.

    In summary:-

    Some assessors lie - and some make honest mistakes (as we all do)

    My advice is that if the errors are significant - and  you can prove this - to politely ask the assessment company to correct them.

    Mandatory review - you offer sound advice. No point moaning on about inaccurracies (as the report is produced by a private company not the DWP) Give further examples to support your case. Good, recent examples of day to day difficulties - not barrowloads of medical reports.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,007 Disability Gamechanger
    The definition of a lie, in the context you're using it, is 'an intentional false statement;' an error is 'a mistake.' The former can't be proven, as Mike has been at pains to say; the latter happens, as he freely acknowledges, & we all know, with an assessor's report, often in the plural. Your use of the two interchangeably may cause confusion for others reading this post.
    If there are a couple of provable errors, then they're worth mentioning, but, for example, does it matter if you read classical literature or Agatha Christie novels? I doubt it, it just signifies that you can read, & understand, the written word.
    I'm unsure how helpful it is to suggest that if there are significant 'errors' to ask the assessment company to correct them, yet with a Mandatory Reconsideration, there's no point in 'moaning on about inaccuracies.' Surely that's the time to write about one or 2 provable errors/inaccuracies if they've occurred?
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 2021
    @mikehughes - this is definitely my last post on this as we're going round in circles.

    To be clear - No-one can say that individual errors are lies. Everyone makes mistakes. You have to look at the whole thing - the number of 'errors', the fact that nearly every one it tended to support the assessor awarding less points, the fact that some information is just invented, the constant summarising of 'nearly every day", "most of the time" etc as "one ot two days a week?" and the fact that the assesor claimed that she saw me walking and timed it - she didn't, she couldn't anway because  she can't see from where she was sitting, and the calculation - that I can walk at 10m/sec is completely wrong (Hussein Bolt could run that fast) Are you so naive that you can't see this or are you still sticking to 'honest mistakes'

    Maybe you will understand this? You're short changed in a shop. An error most likely. It happens again And again. After a dozen times when you got the wrong change - and never once got too much - would you not conclude that the shopkeeper is crooked.

    To repeat again - I never challenged anything for extra points/ more money/ to get anyone into trouble. I asked the asssement provider to correct significant errors so I didn't mention classical literature, how many dogs I have, the fact that I don't have a downstairs bathroom as they  aren't of any significance.

    I didn't put in a 'pile of effort'  but I did I ask for about eight significant things to be corrected. Another page would have had to be correcetd anyway becasue grammatically it had no meaning. Another paragraph also made no sense. They took out the classical literature bit - I don't know why.

    They changed their recommendation from somethinglike 10 points DL/ 6 Mob  to 16/22  so a total of 16 to 38. I had submitted no additional information so my assumption is they based this on my original application. Strangely I got points in two areas where I had written Not Applicable.

    I don't know why these changes were made. Much will be down to their embarrassment at what had happened - a multitude of 'errors', the abrupt / dismissive tone of the assessor, the fact that anyone listening to the recording could see hear I was been bullied and becoming more and more confused, the poor English, paragraphs that made no sense. The totality of it I imagine.

    You obviously don't believe what I am saying which is frustrating and I'd love you to listen to the recording and see how wrong you are. However, in your defence, if I hadn't recorded this then I don't think I would believe it either. I couldn't imagine anyone would say (quite dismissively) "so when did you last burn yourself then" in response to my explanation as to the measures that I'd taken to keep safe. Nor " How much pain are you in? You don't look in pain to me?" when I was unable to complete one of the exercises.

    @chiarieds - only the assessment company can correct their 'errors'. If they won't, and you are at the MR stage the DWP can only assess what they have in front of them so it's best to be concise, give further examples etc.
  • Jona
    Jona Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    Daisy12 said:
     I'm commenting no more on here.

    I'm sorry you feel that way but i'm only trying to help. If i advised you that it was ok to just put "no change" that wouldn't be right. I'm here to help others, not give them incorrect advice.
    I had my review a few months ago and returned my forms in June. The only "medical" evidence i sent was my repeat prescription list. The rest was my anecdotal evidence, which was one A4 side of paper with 2 real world examples. I had a paper based assessment and the decision was my award stayed the same.
    Can i ask, if youve ever had any hiccups or struggles with the PIP process?
  • lemurlover
    lemurlover Community member Posts: 14 Listener
    @cristobal I would suggest that the HCP report is inconsequential at this stage, and expending energy on its accuracy or origins is a waste of your time and energy.

    The people you need to convince are the decision maker and then the tribunal. Evidence you give concisely and directly will supercede the HCP. if persuasive.  Your job is to make a case to the judge based on your own experiential evidence.

    I know you're not a ship, but we had a similar situation in Admiralty court many times. One side would commission an independent report on damages, the other would disagree and claim conflict or whatever else. Ultimately that report would be used by the side who commissioned it, and considered with the rest of the evidence once we got to court. A client demanding that we waste weeks eviscerating a semi inconsequential report (It's evidence, but you can bring your own evidence too) was a client wasting their time and money.

    You are the ultimate expert on what you can and can't do. Just like the ship can't cross oceans after a repainting because a report says it can, you can't perform x y z task because a report says you can. Prove it and you're golden.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,359 Disability Gamechanger
    Jona said:
    Daisy12 said:
     I'm commenting no more on here.

    I'm sorry you feel that way but i'm only trying to help. If i advised you that it was ok to just put "no change" that wouldn't be right. I'm here to help others, not give them incorrect advice.
    I had my review a few months ago and returned my forms in June. The only "medical" evidence i sent was my repeat prescription list. The rest was my anecdotal evidence, which was one A4 side of paper with 2 real world examples. I had a paper based assessment and the decision was my award stayed the same.
    Can i ask, if youve ever had any hiccups or struggles with the PIP process?

    No, never. Same for my daughters PIP, i'm her appointee and never had any issues with her claim either. She's had 2 paper based assessments and one home assessment.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    @Username_removed - I wasn't going to post but just so thast it's on the record...

    I apologise if you think I am treating you as thick. That was never my intention - you are very knowledgeable and offer good advice. You are clearly far from thick.

    On this occasion we disagree - time to move on.

Brightness

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