The future for the disabled claiming UC/ESA, etc - budget march 2023
Comments
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Long term it might be bad, but it seems current claimants will be protected for now at least. Especially when they're saying 2029 earliest for this to be implemented.barton85 said:I get lcwra element but not pip feel like this news will be a real problem for me1 -
It sounds to me that only those who are awarded PIP with the UC claim will get this new Health Element, which suggests they will be classed as more seriously disabled, therefore they don't have to work if they don't want to. Whereas everyone else will be assigned a work coach and get help to find work. I may be misinterpreting what it says, but that's what it reads like to me.2
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So
Pro: a while till it begins being implemented (completed 2029 earliest), expecting at least one general election in the meantime so any new government could scrap this anyway
con: puts the sick/disabled more at the mercy of the dwp and job centre staff more than ever (healthcare professionals recommendations potentially meaning less) and we know about the pressure dwp staff are put under over targets (would dwp ‘lies’ also be less likely to be able to be challenged in terms of tribunals is a huge question)
this has the potential to be a lot lot worse than what we are dealing with now but a lot can happen between then and now1 -
So if you have any pip elements and lcwra going into the new system you won't have to do a new assessment or apply as new claimant?1
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The issue is work coaches normally show zero understanding for health conditions, so will end up pestering you looking into work you could never actually do. And it's implied here they will work with people who are awarded PIP and thus get the new UC health element in trying to help them (yer right) find work. My experience with work coaches suggests this will lead to them asking you to do ridiculous things that you could never actually do, and ignore anything you tell them about your health condition and how it affects you. Then at worst, of course this might lead to sanctions if these people don't do these ridiculous things they are asked to do that they can't do.JBS2022 said:It sounds to me that only those who are awarded PIP with the UC claim will get this new Health Element, which suggests they will be classed as more seriously disabled, therefore they don't have to work if they don't want to. Whereas everyone else will be assigned a work coach and get help to find work. I may be misinterpreting what it says, but that's what it reads like to me.
Even at a basic level I have zero faith in the work coaches implementation here. For example I had it written in my file that my appointments had to be over the phone due to my health condition, and not because of the pandemic during the pandemic when all appointments were turned to phone appointments. After they started going back to face-to-face appointments my appointments kept constantly getting changed from phone to face-to-face with them saying it was a drive as they believe the service works better that way, despite the fact my file said for me it was related to my health condition and not the pandemic. There was zero sympathy or understanding shown at their end, it was just about box ticking to get people back to face-to-face appointments. Ultimately my case was referred to the job centre management who sided with me in saying my appointments needed to be over the phone, but it highlights the incompetence of the people you could potentially be deal with in the future here.1 -
"Any LCWRA recipients that move to the new system who do not receive PIP will receive transitional cash protection so no one experiences financial loss at the point at which the reform is enacted."How long will that last for though? I'm presuming until they have a PIP assessment.1
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Which is why charities and the community as a whole need to band together as a whole and help as many people as possible to qualify for pipVotadini said:For those of us with mental health conditions who don't qualify for PIP this is absolutely shocking news. If what's contained in that white paper comes to pass tens of thousands of mentally ill people will find themselves classed as fit for work by the benefit system and treated as ordinary claimants.
im not sure I would of got pip if it wasn’t for my parents fighting tooth and nail for help and the charity who helped us fill in the form in the ‘correct’ way
im so lucky in that respect as I know not many of the disabled/sick community get that help
a way needs to set up so we can help each other easier - like a database that could be accessed if requested privately (I might be able to help others but there are things I don’t want to post publicly and I imagine their may be others in the same boat - they want to help but anonymously)1 -
This will almost certainly be the case. They are already massively behind on re-assessments so they aren't going to find the time to re-assess everybody in the entire system to fit into the new system.robjgr1 said:So if you have any pip elements and lcwra going into the new system you won't have to do a new assessment or apply as new claimant?
LCWRA is generally meant to be reviewed anyway, but there is a huge backlog, thus it doesn't happen in the time frame it's meant to, and most people's PIP's is time conditional to a certain time frame, and reviewed at the end of that time frame anyway.
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Plus at least 1 general election - there is time to figure this out for everyone if we work together as a communityBecky93 said:
Long term it might be bad, but it seems current claimants will be protected for now at least. Especially when they're saying 2029 earliest for this to be implemented.barton85 said:I get lcwra element but not pip feel like this news will be a real problem for me0 -
The intentions are indicative. Their own description is that they need to carry out investigation to work out how to develop their proposals. They are saying that the earliest any changes could start to carry out is 2026/2027 and would start to be completed by 2029 at the earliest.
Crudely they appear to be saying that people who get PIP will get the UC heal thing element that replaces LCWRA (which is interesting given that given PP claimant don't aways qualify for LCWRA). They have also said that she wish to protect some claimants that who get LCWRA but would not get PIP - for exactly people receiving cancer treatment.
All is vague at present until more proposals develop the implications are unclear.
See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transforming-support-the-health-and-disability-white-paper/transforming-support-the-health-and-disability-white-paper
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I’m not sure everyone on pip would qualify for the health element (I imagine the dwp would want to narrow that further) but apart from that I read it the same wayJBS2022 said:It sounds to me that only those who are awarded PIP with the UC claim will get this new Health Element, which suggests they will be classed as more seriously disabled, therefore they don't have to work if they don't want to. Whereas everyone else will be assigned a work coach and get help to find work. I may be misinterpreting what it says, but that's what it reads like to me.
everyone who’s not on pip should apply (or reapply at the first possible time- which I think is 1yr after a failed pip claim?) as a priority
(those of us waiting on pip reviews may be waiting a tad long as a result of this)0 -
That isn't what they sayapple85 said:
I’m not sure everyone on pip would qualify for the health element (I imagine the dwp would want to narrow that further) but apart from that I read it the same way
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transforming-support-the-health-and-disability-white-paper/transforming-support-the-health-and-disability-white-paper#chapter-4-transforming-the-system-for-the-future-1145. We are therefore proposing to replace the current UC LCWRA element with a new UC health element. The new element will be awarded to people who are receiving the UC Standard Allowance and any PIP element.However is largely pointless to discuss at the moment because the details will require considerably not more detailed proposals and any implementation will only be applicable until after the next general election.
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It sounds like the new health support group will replace the lwrca and support group
does that mean that the dwp will no longer recognise the illnesses and disabilities of those in lcw and wrag groups?
so a lot of people will no longer be recognised as disabled in theory?
if I’ve understood that right that is significantly worse and make life that much more difficult for hundreds of thousands of people in this country (esp as lcwra is meant to be much harder to qualify for than the esa support group) and yes I think those with mental health issues will be big losers here (but even those will ‘lesser’ physical disabilities like a single loss of limb, partially sighted and the deaf may be caught out)1 -
However, in today’s benefits system some people that receive the UC health element as a result of being determined to have LCWRA do not receive PIP. This is also the case for some people that are in the ESA Support Group. For this group, we will carefully consider whether they meet the PIP assessment and eligibility criteria.Ah phew, they're going to carefully consider it. My fears are assuaged!0
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Becky93 said:They are already massively behind on re-assessments
Behind? Reviews have been suspended for almost 3 years.
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That's not correct. They are both exactly the same, with identical descriptors.apple85 said:(esp as lcwra is meant to be much harder to qualify for than the esa support group)
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Does the white paper mention anything about current ongoing reviews with backlogs etc for wca ?0
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robjgr1 said:Does the white paper mention anything about current ongoing reviews with backlogs etc for wca ?
No.
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Didn’t realise the white paper is publishedCher_Scope said:@apple85 Thanks for being on the ball with this.
We've posted a link to the Health and disability white paper on this thread which digs deeper into proposed benefits changes.
i may let others read through through that as I’m worn out (if my ocd allows it that is)0
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