My PIP review done by a website but hmm
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It doesn’t mean you can’t undertake any journey at all. It means you can’t undertake any journey the majority of the days. This means at least 50% of the days over a 12 month period. Going out sometimes is fine and doesn’t affect this descriptor.
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It is worded poorly. I had the same concerns about this descriptor.bluefox said:Yeah that's correct. The wording fills me with fright. I'm very literal and reading the wording makes me think I can't undertake any journey AT ALL. But to be fair, I do have agoraphobia and I get terrible symptoms when out, so I try to avoid going out at all opportunities.
I even wrote that I could drive short distances and visit the supermarket (as I could when I filled in the form 18 months before they read it!) and was still awarded 1E for that. So that does seem to confirm that it should say 'unable to take any journey on the majority of days - but able to take a journey occasionally'.
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OverlyAnxious said:
It is worded poorly. I had the same concerns about this descriptor.bluefox said:Yeah that's correct. The wording fills me with fright. I'm very literal and reading the wording makes me think I can't undertake any journey AT ALL. But to be fair, I do have agoraphobia and I get terrible symptoms when out, so I try to avoid going out at all opportunities.
I even wrote that I could drive short distances and visit the supermarket (as I could when I filled in the form 18 months before they read it!) and was still awarded 1E for that. So that does seem to confirm that it should say 'unable to take any journey on the majority of days - but able to take a journey occasionally'.
I don't think it's worded poorly at all. Part of the crtieria for PIP is "majority of days" which applies to all of the descriptors, not just some of them. It's never been about not being able to complete any activities all of the days. If someone can complete them 2 days a week, this isn't the majority of the days, therefore they are classed as not being able to complete them on the majority of the days.
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree about whether it's worded poorly.poppy123456 said:OverlyAnxious said:
It is worded poorly. I had the same concerns about this descriptor.bluefox said:Yeah that's correct. The wording fills me with fright. I'm very literal and reading the wording makes me think I can't undertake any journey AT ALL. But to be fair, I do have agoraphobia and I get terrible symptoms when out, so I try to avoid going out at all opportunities.
I even wrote that I could drive short distances and visit the supermarket (as I could when I filled in the form 18 months before they read it!) and was still awarded 1E for that. So that does seem to confirm that it should say 'unable to take any journey on the majority of days - but able to take a journey occasionally'.
I don't think it's worded poorly at all. Part of the crtieria for PIP is "majority of days" which applies to all of the descriptors, not just some of them. It's never been about not being able to complete any activities all of the days. If someone can complete them 2 days a week, this isn't the majority of the days, therefore they are classed as not being able to complete them on the majority of the days.
Some of the descriptors say 'a journey' and others say 'any journey'. Using the word any is what causes the confusion here.
It's meant to mean both familiar and unfamiliar journeys, when read in the context of the entire descriptor list. But when read individually and taken out of context, the phrase 'unable to take any journey' does sound like someone who can't ever leave the front door. Of course, once you know what's it's meant to mean, it's difficult to go back and unsee it!
Add in a bit of anxiety and fear of getting investigated then it's very difficult to convince ourselves that that is the correct descriptor in our case.2 -
Was you awarded 1E then? @OverlyAnxious0
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Yes.bluefox said:Was you awarded 1E then? @OverlyAnxious
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I’m the same as you. It terrifies me.OverlyAnxious said:
Yes.bluefox said:Was you awarded 1E then? @OverlyAnxious0 -
I found this webpage which I found interesting.I need someone to accompany me to go out at all times. I don’t always have that help either. I have panic attacks and seizures. Some of my seizures I lose awareness or even end up in such a fear state that I beg for an ambulance to be called.So I think realistically, if I had that help, someone to help me deal with the problems I have being out of the house. Someone to keep me safe etc and get me back home safely should something happen. Then surely I should meet 1F?0
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bluefox said:I found this webpage which I found interesting.I need someone to accompany me to go out at all times. I don’t always have that help either. I have panic attacks and seizures. Some of my seizures I lose awareness or even end up in such a fear state that I beg for an ambulance to be called.So I think realistically, if I had that help, someone to help me deal with the problems I have being out of the house. Someone to keep me safe etc and get me back home safely should something happen. Then surely I should meet 1F?
Sorry, from what you've said on here so far, I don't think you could reliably complete a journey on the majority of days even if you had someone to assist every day.
But it is your claim, not mine, so if you feel you can get that across to the assessor, you're more than welcome to try it and see what happens. 0 -
The crazy thing is, I can go to local journeys to hospitals and GP appointments. Mainly because I know if anything bad happens, I have access to immediate help. So I know if I have a seizure or panic episode where I think I'm dying, I'll be taken care of.OverlyAnxious said:bluefox said:I found this webpage which I found interesting.I need someone to accompany me to go out at all times. I don’t always have that help either. I have panic attacks and seizures. Some of my seizures I lose awareness or even end up in such a fear state that I beg for an ambulance to be called.So I think realistically, if I had that help, someone to help me deal with the problems I have being out of the house. Someone to keep me safe etc and get me back home safely should something happen. Then surely I should meet 1F?
Sorry, from what you've said on here so far, I don't think you could reliably complete a journey on the majority of days even if you had someone to assist every day.
But it is your claim, not mine, so if you feel you can get that across to the assessor, you're more than welcome to try it and see what happens.
But anywhere else, anywhere fun and yeah that makes me feel terrified. It's an odd one.1 -
I imagine/assume it's about feeling safe. You know in those locations you will get help and receive care. You'll be okay. In the other locations that answer is unknown, you don't know the answer. So that's where the anxiety and panic might come from?
I'm not a health professional at all, so I strongly advise you speak to a counselor or therapist about this. I'm just giving my own thoughts on what makes me anxious, maybe it will give you some insight into your own thoughts?0 -
You’re probably right, @Jimm_Scope
I found this from Anxiety UK - which is really helpful and for most agoraphobics they fear illness or embarrassing symptoms.https://www.anxietyuk.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/overcoming-agoraphobia-lovell-1999.pdfMy panic attacks make me feel like I’m going to die or my heart is going to stop. My seizures make me feel embarrassed.Doctors/Hospitals all have first aid points. Anywhere like a shop doesn’t. I have social anxiety too and so I guess the two above mixed with social anxiety isn’t a good combination.I think my psychiatrist said that it’s quite common for autistics to feel socially anxious and also have phobic anxiety. This has been a life long problem for myself but I’d say it’s got much worse since the pandemic.0 -
You'd actually be surprised how many shops have first aid points and defibrillators. Especially larger shops must have first aiders by regulations as well. Same goes for entertainment complexes and more too.2
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Can someone clarify what I need to do with the extra sheets of paper?
Do I write my name and date of birth and NI number on?0 -
You just need to put your name & NI number on each page.
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Sorry to revisit this thread. But when you visit the supermarket, @OverlyAnxious is it at night or during the day??OverlyAnxious said:
It is worded poorly. I had the same concerns about this descriptor.bluefox said:Yeah that's correct. The wording fills me with fright. I'm very literal and reading the wording makes me think I can't undertake any journey AT ALL. But to be fair, I do have agoraphobia and I get terrible symptoms when out, so I try to avoid going out at all opportunities.
I even wrote that I could drive short distances and visit the supermarket (as I could when I filled in the form 18 months before they read it!) and was still awarded 1E for that. So that does seem to confirm that it should say 'unable to take any journey on the majority of days - but able to take a journey occasionally'.0 -
Just to be clear, I have not been able to visit any supermarket since Autumn 2021. Though I filled in the review forms before then.bluefox said:
Sorry to revisit this thread. But when you visit the supermarket, @OverlyAnxious is it at night or during the day??OverlyAnxious said:
It is worded poorly. I had the same concerns about this descriptor.bluefox said:Yeah that's correct. The wording fills me with fright. I'm very literal and reading the wording makes me think I can't undertake any journey AT ALL. But to be fair, I do have agoraphobia and I get terrible symptoms when out, so I try to avoid going out at all opportunities.
I even wrote that I could drive short distances and visit the supermarket (as I could when I filled in the form 18 months before they read it!) and was still awarded 1E for that. So that does seem to confirm that it should say 'unable to take any journey on the majority of days - but able to take a journey occasionally'.
It was always during the day before that, as I can't go out at night. I found 10am was late enough to avoid all the school kids & rush hour traffic, but early enough to avoid the lunch time rush, the parents that had dropped the kids off at school, and the pensioners that had to get a bus to the supermarket.
This is the sort of thing PIP doesn't really take into account. Technically it was probably quieter at 10am than it is at 10pm, but they only seemed interested in 'day or night' when I did the first assessment back in 2019.0 -
For activity 1E then being able to go out at night time only doesn't count.
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