Welfare benefits news, possible changes & constructive ‘discussion - an ongoing thread
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Liking any videos you see about the deaths which have happened because of the DWP, or about how there will be more deaths and people's mental health being made worse because of what the Tories are planning, will push the videos out there more so they will be seen by more people.0
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Probably the only way to know the full story on this type of stuff is to be a fly on Jeremy hunts/Mel stride’s office wall (any volunteers? 🤢😝)WhatThe said:
Sure it's a compliment
it's a new skill I discovered too and worth celebrating since everyday things are so difficult to process 
Very heavy though. Benefits are headline news but we're never given the full facts. Hansard is a transcript of proceedings, not the whole story - that is the art of politics
I don’t even think the dwp staff (who are going to be directly dealing with all this) are given the full stories (they are probably just given ‘orders’)
just doing my best to source as much of the ‘story’ as possible and understand all the major ‘plot points’ (which transcripts and official gov docs help with but you know ministers are keeping some info for the private WhatsApp chats and dinner parties!)
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I'm not even angry anymore, just very frightened0
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This is recycled reports from the beginning of November - none of this information is actually newTonawanda17 said:0 -
ITV seem to think the government won't do this and benefits will go up 6.7%.woodbine said:I think we need to simplify this, cuts in working age benefits next week seem to be only increasing them by Oct. inflation rate and not Sept i.e 4,6% instead of 6.7% from next April and some action on those who have been claiming UC for being out of work (not sick/disabled) for 18 months.
Any other changes in sickness/disability benefits will probably have to go through parliament and like all changes could take a long time to become reality. Anything else might well be speculation and scaremongering mainly from the Tory supporting press.
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-20/pm-likely-to-uprate-benefits-and-keep-pension-triple-lock-itv-news-understands
It was probably just the usual float out ideas, see what the reaction is, then backtrack when they saw the reaction was bad.
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/20/labour-would-treat-health-and-work-as-two-sides-of-same-coin-says-liz-kendallSerious question - what was starmer thinking when he appointed Kendall as shadow & pension minister?Did he seriously think her appointment would bring labour votes at the next general election?
(Quick warning ⚠️- I’ve used the below to illustrate/indroduce a point about where voters may vote - this thread isn’t about issues happening overseas………there is probably a much better thread on the scope to debate that subject……..this thread isn’t it)
on a serious note starmers stance on events happening abroad (im not going to comment on whether his stance is right or wrong) and a certain parliamentary vote from last week had the negative effect for labour of majorly repelling the ‘woke’ voting group (and I’m really sorry for the use of the term ‘woke’………….I’m not sure there’s a term that I could use for that social group that wouldn’t be patronising?…………the idealistic social voting group?) which is a smaller but still significantly sized voting group (seriously, there’s a social media push for those voters to switch their vote to the Green Party)
my point is that may be a significant number of voters perhaps permanently lost for the next election that labour probably had pencilled in as labour leaning.
It would be smart for labour to step up their effects to attract other major & minor social voting group - and the sick/disabled/unpaid carer social voting group has a huge amount of potential voters that aren’t politically attached to any party right now and aren’t being courted by the Tory party
you’d think that would be an attractive prospect for labour (and Lib Dem’s and other smaller parties too) but no one seems interested in our vote and if anything are actively trying to discourage us to sign up to &/or use our vote (by making large numbers the community think their vote is pointless) or to spoil our vote!
the stupidity and shortsightedness of this attitude from politicians and party headquarters is mind boggling…………….and that the disabled community conforms to this narrative and don’t use their vote in sizeable numbers (like the pensioner social group) is a total waste on our part.
There are millions of disabled, sick or are in unpaid family/friend unpaid ‘carer’ roles who have the right to (sign up and) vote!If properly utilised, our social voting group would have the numbers to swing some constituency seat to an mp that best suits our community!
The fact that many of the disability community haven’t done this maths is kind of infuriating (sizeable voting groups heavily influence political policy)0 -
Okay - yes I know it’s the times……..however with less than 48hrs before the autumn statement leaks are probably more accurate at this point
ive only skimmed through it briefly but it seems like mostly worst case scenario from the wca consultation will implemented (though the article does say 2025 and ‘new claimants - I need to read the article fully)
obviously we’ll know more details on Wednesday but the basically the dwp will be redefining what is ‘disabled’ in their eyes and who is the same to an ‘average joe’ in their eyes
When combined with the back to work/sanction new policies also announced this weeks I’m not sure many of us will escape being negatively effected in some way.
as I said we don’t know the timetable, the government’s priority (in terms of how quickly to roll out) and what legislation this may or may need.
but honestly the next major answer that I need is labours position on this considering the likelihood of them being power early 2025
But nope the early signs aren’t great
Edit: I’m about halfway through the article……I will tentatively say that it may not be worse case scenario (doesn’t feel like a win though)
the substantial risk element being hugely tightened to “active psychotic illness” is what has me most concerned at first read but I hope that charities that have written in depth advice to filling in the wca assessment up till now will have advice on how to handle it within a year or 2 if these changes do go ahead (I believe there’s a nack & ‘language’ to filling in the wca forms as effectively as possible but I know others would disagree with me and have their own explanations)
I do think it would be helpful for disability charity’s to get more staff/volunteers and train them to help claimants one-on-one (via f2f or zoom) fill out the wca forms in the most effective manner for each individual’s personal daily challenges)
the times article:Rishi Sunak will end the “national scandal” of two million people who are out of work by forcing more benefits claimants to look for jobs, under plans announced in the autumn statement.Under the changes, to be revealed on Wednesday, hundreds of thousands of people with mobility and mental-health problems will be told to look for work that they can do from home. They face having their benefits reduced by £4,680 a year as ministers insist they can no longer be “written off” as incapable of working.The changes in the rules for claiming benefits will apply to all new claimants from 2025. As part of a “carrot and stick” approach, existing claimants will be given a guarantee that they will not have their rightto benefits assessed if they look for work.Sunak also said “we can and we will cut taxes” after inflation halved.National insurance cuts are seen as the front-runner for the autumn statement on Wednesday, although income tax cuts have also been under consideration. However, income tax cuts are thought to be more likely for the spring budget.The prime minister made clear that the existing benefits system is not “sustainable”. However, he also said that the government would be “compassionate”.In one of the biggest decisions in the autumn statement, Sunak and Jeremy Hunt, his chancellor, are expected to increase benefits by 6.7 per cent in line with inflation figures from September.Ministers had considered using the October inflation figure of 4.6 per cent, which would have saved the government £3 billion but hit nine million households struggling to cope with the cost of living.They are also expected to raise the state pension by 8.5 per cent in line with the normal measure of earnings. They had been considering using a lower measure of inflation that stripped out the effect of bonuses.There are 2.4 million people claiming incapacity benefits, and a steep rise since the pandemic has alarmed Hunt at a time when businesses are struggling with a million vacancies.One in five of those judged unfit for work say they would like a job, and ministers believe that with the right help tens or even hundreds of thousands of people could be encouraged back to work.Sunak highlighted his plans to overhaul benefits during a speech in north London. “We believe in the inherent dignity of a good job. And we believe that work, not welfare, is the best route out of poverty,” he said.“Yet right now, around two million people of working age are not working at all. That is a national scandal and an enormous waste of human potential. So, we must do more to support those who can work to do so.“And we will clamp down on welfare fraudsters. Because the system must be fair for the taxpayers who fund it. By doing all of this, by getting people off welfare and into work, we can better support those genuinely in need of a safety net.”The “huge shift” towards working from home will allow people who struggle to leave the house to do jobs that would have been impossible a decade ago, ministers argue.Hunt is expected to say that at present people are being “written off” without any support of prospect of getting a job. In 2011, 21 per cent of people were assessed as being unfit for work, a proportion that has since risen to 65 per cent.In September Mel Stride, the work and pensions secretary, began consulting on reforms to the work capability assessment that were designed to reverse a tripling of the proportion classed as unfit for any work.At present people unable to walk 50 metres unaided can quality for the “limited capability for work and work-related activity” category, which does not require claimants to look for a job. This “mobility” descriptor is expected to be removed in a response to the consultation that is expected to be published alongside the autumn statement.Stride is also planning to tighten the rules on who can be classed as unfit for work based on a “substantial risk” to their mental health. Designed as a safety net, it now accounts for one in seven of those claiming incapacity benefits. Stride plans to limit it to people with crises such as “active psychotic illness”.However, plans to make those who are incontinent or suffer “significant distress” from social anxiety look for work have been dropped during the consultation process. In order to encourage existing claimants to look for a job, they will be given a legal guarantee that they will not be reassessed under the new rules.The reforms are likely to be contentious among disability campaigners, who have previously accused ministers of a “cynical attempt” to reduce benefit payments and warned of huge anxiety for unwell claimants forced to look for a job.“If you want to control the size of the state, you do need to include welfare reform as one of your priorities,” Hunt said last week. “As a Conservative, I believe you need to make work pay, and you do have to take measures that address the fact that every year we sign off nearly 600,000 people who come out of work, go on to benefits and are not required to look for any work at all.”He said it was “not just right for taxpayers, but it is also right for the individuals concerned that we break down every possible barrier to moving back into the world of work”.A government source said: “We are taking long-term decisions to tear down the barriers to work we know people face. The evidence on this is clear: thousands of incapacity benefit claimants are desperate to work but don’t dare to dip their toe for fear of reassessment. So this is government saying loud and clear: if you want to try to work, we will back you — every step of the way.”0 -
And what on earth is a “active psychotic illness”?
I presume it’s relating to psychosis and not actually being psychotic? (cause that would be seriously messed up if the latter)
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=What%20is%20psychosis%3F,real%20and%20what%20is%20not.
I hope they publish the results of the consultation because I have zero clue how the gov has come to certain conclusions if the times article turns out to be an accurate early preview (we will know Wednesday)0 -
It's so scary how hard they are working to try and invalidate people's struggles with mental illness, they are trying to make mental illness seem like it's just something you can brush aside and carry on with.. I feel like they're essentially just saying to me (and others in my position) ''Oh shut up, you're fine, pull yourself together and get a job'' which is not helpful, especially when the anxiety/depression/agoraphobia/difficulty being around others is all rooted in past traumatic events. They are deeply underestimating how much the symptoms of mental illness can effect a person on a daily basis if they genuinely believe throwing them into work is a safe thing to do! I am terrified of what is going to happen on Wednesday, almost feels like I'm sat waiting for my execution..2
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Laura Trott - bright as a button, fit as a fiddle - telling the afflicted to get on yer bike or work from home on Sky this morning.
I am afraid disabilities / chronic illnesses do not simply boil down to the words 'impaired mobility' or 'mental health issue' - a whole raft of other accompanying symptoms - such as severe pain or extreme anxiety - may hold people back from being able to engage fully with work. Moreover, are you telling me that a former blue collar car mechanic with a spinal condition can be, or would be willing to be, retrained as an online tutor or self help coach ? What on earth is going ?
Thought a PIP award would passport the severely incapacitated on to the proposed new disability element of UC ? Has that idea gone too ?
We're all doomed it would seem !
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Why do you keep posting these articles? They are not saying anything different to what’s already been posted.Tonawanda17 said:2 -
It’s the disabled turn this week. They took a beating on asylum seekers so they have to find another minority to blame for their disastrous government. It’s the blame game. Point at someone else. It’s their fault.JonnycJonny said:Laura Trott - bright as a button, fit as a fiddle - telling the afflicted to get on yer bike or work from home on Sky this morning.
I am afraid disabilities / chronic illnesses do not simply boil down to the words 'impaired mobility' or 'mental health issue' - a whole raft of other accompanying symptoms - such as severe pain or extreme anxiety - may hold people back from being able to engage fully with work. Moreover, are you telling me that a former blue collar car mechanic with a spinal condition can be, or would be willing to be, retrained as an online tutor or self help coach ? What on earth is going ?
Thought a PIP award would passport the severely incapacitated on to the proposed new disability element of UC ? Has that idea gone too ?
We're all doomed it would seem !Soon they’ll return to asylum seekers or homeless or some other vulnerable group.It’s a government out of ideas and in survival mode.We need people to stand up for us and I haven’t heard much from Labour or the other parties. Disabled people need to contact their Labour mp if they have one and voice their concerns.0 -
Seems highly improbable all that will be implemented for 2025, for new claimants maybe, but don't be surprised if that gets put back too, for those already claiming no chance. There's no way they have the capacity to re-assess a huge number of people as well as keep up with new claimants in that time frame, they're already miles behind on re-assessments as it is.
Also given the likely change of government it's just one of those things that's wait and see regardless what the Tories say they will do. Labour have already said their priority to get people back to work will be to cut NHS waiting lists, with nothing really on planned changes to the benefit system, it's highly unlikely to be a priority for them with everything they are going to have to sort out.
The reality is this will face lots of opposition, and I bet the majority of it gets watered down before ever coming to fruition. A lot of it is just Tory sound bites appealing to their base. It's not even clear to me how large portions of it will work in practice. You may be able to water down the bits about being able to walk unaided 50m, as that's definitive, the stuff about mental health is going to be much harder to define, and it's blindingly obvious to anyone with experience of the process that the people they are expecting to make those judgments aren't remotely qualified to do so. I struggle to see how they are going to formulate something that actually works in practice.
These changes are also surely going to require primary legislation and changes to the law, as otherwise more cases will just end up at tribunal where they lose if the law doesn't change surely. Seems pretty unlikely you actually pass that legislation when the government has less than a year left. And when you take into account holidays and the run up to the election, there is actually much less time to pass legislation than you might think.6 -
One of the elements that gets ignored here is that for this to even work in practice employers are going to have to be incentivised to take on workers they otherwise wouldn't touch. Like what they present here is quite devious as they keep saying on the one hand they are going to help people find work who want to work without risk of losing their benefits, but it's quite clear in practice they are going to take LCWRA away from these people if they don't, so that statement's not true at all.
And who is going to employ these people. It's one thing saying more people work from home (which also contradicts their otherwise anti people working from home policies), but how many jobs will let people exclusively work from home with no need to ever go into a workplace. How many employers want to touch what in effect would be high risk staff who are likely to have a higher than average number of sick days etc. Without incentivising this, the whole thing just seems a con to me to rebrand people as fit for work, who in reality are going to find it very hard to find work, and once they've done that you will start getting pressured to take any job, even those that aren't remotely suitable. You have minimal incentive to work with the system, when it's so obviously going to be used against you in this way.3 -
I’ve had a little time to process all of these ‘previews’ we’ve gotten the past 48hrs. Obviously things will be clearer after tomorrow and in the coming weeks but this is where my head is 12hrs before the autumn statement (opinions based on non confirmed previews - these are pencilled in thoughts, not inked in):
> obviously when benefit changes are announced everyone’s first thought is how it may affect themselves & their family and how to keep your own head above water - self preservation is a normal reaction and theirs nothing wrong with feeling like that. However my heart goes out to the first of us that are affected by these changes (if they do end up going forward) and those of us that aren’t affected straight away should try and actively help those who are unfortunate enough to be the Guinea pigs for those in gov
> if the times article is confirmed to be accurate tomorrow than I am thankful to everyone who filled in the wca consultation - it may seem like a loss but only 1 out of the 4 proposed descriptors sounds like it’s being altered/removed and the ‘substantial risk’ element (which sunak/hunt/stride were massively pushing to bin altogether) has only been tightened………it’s still a bad outcome but nowhere near as bad as it could of been if confirmed tomorrow. Considering that only 1300 people responded to the consultation I’m shocked we may of gotten concessions at all - and brings me back to what I keep saying in that can you imagine the disabled community could successfully push back or fight back on if tens of thousands of us stopped sitting on our hands/accepted life’s draw and started being proactive?!
> the article does mention a 2025 start date for the policy changes on wca reforms/the push to get the disabled working and the policy only affecting new claimants to start of with. This suggests that at at let those of us on legacy benefits may have some time but also none of this particular policy change will come into play pre general election
> the government plan to get the disabled working is so badly thought out that a group of 7 year olds would be able to suggest something more workable (I’m wonder if they said anything to try to inspire their supporters that they are actively doing something but actually have zero plan of how to make it workable & and is just being presented so that if labour gain power and drop this policy the Tories can use it as a future attack line)
Side note: James o Brian earned his pay check on todays LBC show, well worth a listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKs47DXfbc
> I’m still worried that hunt will reveal a new nasty surprise tomorrow that hasn’t been leaked up till now (the tories bring out this paranoia in me)
> This quote from the times articles still has me confused & concerned but I don’t know if I’m interpreting it right: “ The changes in the rules for claiming benefits will apply to all new claimants from 2025. As part of a “carrot and stick” approach, existing claimants will be given a guarantee that they will not have their right to benefits assessed if they look for work.”
> honestly I’m starting to get more and more concerned about labours position on all this and I think the disabled community should prioritise trying to get through to as many existing labour mps as possible that there party is currently going down the wrong path on this: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-must-serious-mental-health-31486774
> lastly going on new ministers Laura trots car crash interviews today is there a single Tory minister that has any common sense in what they chose to say - ‘duty’ indeed, we aren’t soldiers signing up to defend our country fgs!
obviously the above thoughts are based on newspaper previews and it’s possible some of the above may not be accurate after the autumn statement tomorrow1 -
So later today I’m going to keep my eye on various political live texts
However I’m not going to post anything direct from the chancellors speech live - Jeremy Hunt will have tailored his speech to appeal to the seating mps and Tory faithful and they want hunt to serve them red meat so it’s likely Hunt will announce things in a way that may panic some on this forum
I’m going to wait till the official autumn statement document in full detail has been published just after the speech and any section that may have relevance to us on the scope forum I’ll post a (highlighted) screenshot onto that thread as I think that’s going to be the most accurate source here - that will probably take me a couple of hours as the document may be 100+ pages long.
I’m also going to keep an ear out for opposition mp statements of interest I know it will be some’s instinct on this forum to post multiples of the same articles and quotes on this thread tomorrow (Tonawanda17, I’m looking at you - I know it’s worrying but newspapers sensationalise things and spin things to sell papers and therefore may not be writing 100% accurate things - hence screenshots of the actual gov doc)
I hope this is the most helpful way to keep the scope forum members up to date in a calm manner over posting endless live text type updates Open to any further suggestions0 -
Morning all
got my eyes on the political live text - it may be over an hour till I have access to the official pdf doc (hunts says he’s got 110 new measures to get through)0
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