Welfare benefits news, possible changes & constructive ‘discussion - an ongoing thread

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  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,862 Championing


    apple, here's what Liz Kendall had to say in 2015 -

    Labour’s four leadership contenders show contrasting views on disability benefits

    By John Pring on 17th July 2015 Category: Politics

    The four candidates to be the next leader of the Labour party have revealed their thoughts about disability issues such as benefit sanctions, the “fit for work” test, and Labour’s record in government.

    Concerns among many disabled activists were raised when leadership contender Andy Burnham said in May that Labour had “become associated with giving people who don’t want to help themselves an easy ride”.

    One of his rivals, Yvette Cooper, suggested that Burnham had fallen into the Tory trap of “using language that stigmatises those who are not working”, including many disabled people.

    Another contender, Liz Kendall, then added to concerns by stating that “voters in my constituency do not feel people who are not working should get more than those in work”, and warning that the public did not trust Labour on welfare.

    Disability News Service (DNS) has been trying since early last month to secure answers to key questions on disability benefits from Kendall and Burnham, and more recently from Cooper and the fourth contender, Jeremy Corbyn.

    Cooper, who herself spent a period claiming incapacity benefit as a young woman, has told DNS that the use of stigmatising language “is offensive and hurtful to disabled people, and creates division in our society, exacerbating and serving to legitimise the vile threat of disability hate crime”.

    She said that a Labour government under her leadership would ensure that the Crown Prosecution Service and courts “treat these crimes with the seriousness they deserve”, while she would introduce a specific offence of disability hate crime.

    Asked if she would support further cuts to disability benefits, she said: “Disabled people have been hit hard by the impact of spending cuts. I will not support cuts to benefits that prevent them from living their lives with independence and dignity.”

    And she made it clear that she believed the planned cut to payments for new claimants in the work-related activity group of employment and support allowance (ESA) – announced last week by George Osborne in his budget – was “wrong”.

    She said she would work to reduce delays and errors in the benefits system, and “look at how we can bring down the cost of goods and services that are more expensive for disabled people”.

    Cooper said she would also introduce a new specialist work programme for disabled people, to replace the “dismal failure of the Work Programme”.

    She said she was “very concerned at the dramatic rise” in the use of benefit sanctions, including those imposed on disabled people.

    She said: “While it’s right that there should be conditions for benefits, and sanctions as a backstop for wilful noncompliance, it’s quite clear that the sanctions regime in Jobcentre Plus is running out of control.”

    She added: “As leader, I will always ensure that our benefits system operates fairly, proportionately and reliably, ensuring disabled people receive the benefits to which they’re entitled, and are treated with dignity and respect.”

    But she insisted that Labour had been right to introduce the much-criticised ESA in October 2008, to avoid people being “abandoned on incapacity benefit”.

    She said she would reform the work capability assessment, to “ensure it’s fair to disabled people”, “streamline and simplify” the process of applying for benefits, and reduce the need for “repeated and unnecessary face-to-face assessments”.

    Kendall’s answers were less clear, and less detailed.

    When asked if she shared Cooper’s concerns about the use of stigmatising language, she said: “No one should ever stigmatise people who have a disability. That’s against my values, against the values of the Labour party and against the values of a decent society.”  

    When asked what she meant when she said that people did not trust Labour on welfare, and called for a “fundamental rethink” in its approach, she said that social security was the “foundation of a decent society”, and added: “Under the Tories, the system is failing both to help people who can work and provide decent support for those who can’t.” 

    She said she would be concerned if there were any further cuts to disability benefits, and opposed those announced in last week’s budget.

    She said: “Spending on ESA is now double what was projected back in 2010. The only way you save money in the welfare system is by making the system work better for people. I’d oppose any changes that didn’t deliver that.”

    She said that setting targets for sanctions was “completely unacceptable”, and added: “I’d review the entire sanctions system to make sure it isn’t a disguised way to punish people for having mental or physical health problems. That’s not how social security should work.”

    Kendall said that the last Labour government “did a lot of good things” for disabled people, but “didn’t do enough to help people find work or help them contribute to their family and society in other ways”. 

    She said: “Now, with the cuts to social care and ever higher use of sanctions, the benefits bill is rising, but the system is failing those who want to work, by not giving them the support they need to get into work.  

    “At the same time, the system isn’t doing nearly enough for those who can’t work, or need care, or who care for others. That’s just wrong.”

    Corbyn implicitly criticised the language used publicly by Burnham and Kendall, although he declined to do so explicitly.

    He said: “The rise in disability hate crime over recent years has undoubtedly been driven by irresponsible ministers using terms like ‘scroungers’, ‘shirkers’ and ‘skivers’.

    “This vile, dehumanising rhetoric has no place in a serious debate about welfare and disability benefits.”

    He said he had “consistently voted and campaigned against cuts to disability benefits, and will continue to do so”, and had campaigned on the issue alongside user-led grassroots groups such as Disabled People Against Cuts and the WOW Petition, as well as the Unite community and PCS unions.

    He also supports the long-standing call for a cumulative impact assessment of the cuts to disabled people’s benefits and services.

    He was the most critical of the candidates on benefit sanctions, saying they should be completely scrapped.

    He said: “Sanctions destroy the relationship between the claimant and the jobcentre adviser, which is necessary to build trust and help people identify their support needs.

    “Our welfare state was established to help people, not to trip them up.

    “Claimants are best-placed to recognise what is in their interests, and advisers need to be able to support them and give them options, not threats.

    “Sanctions have left people in need without the support they are entitled to, in desperate poverty, and have driven some to suicide. Sanctions are barbaric and must be abolished.”

    Corbyn was also the most critical of the four candidates about the last Labour government, which he said had been wrong to introduce a work capability assessment run by Atos.

    He said: “Our welfare system should work with claimants to give them support tailored to their needs.

    “In opposition, Labour should have changed tack and should also have opposed the closure of the Independent Living Fund. Several of us tried to make ministers see sense on this.

    “We need to rebuild our welfare state as a public service there to help people in need, treating them with dignity, and respecting their autonomy.”

    Burnham (pictured), the last of the four contenders to respond to the questions, said: “I strongly support disability rights and object to any depiction of disabled people as ‘scroungers’. That kind of stigmatising language is wrong and should be challenged.

    “I have said that some people have had a perception that Labour was about helping people who could work to live a life on benefits instead.

    “I want to challenge that perception – but I also want to make sure that we do all we can to help those who can work into work.”

    And he said that cuts to disability benefits “should be a red line for our party”.

    He said: “That’s why I’ve come out against the cruel abolition of the Independent Living Fund. My basic principle is that we cannot justify cuts to income that cannot be replaced by work.”

    Burnham said he had “concerns” about the use of benefit sanctions.

    He added: “I’m not convinced that the sanctions regime operates fairly or consistently, and the government has ignored repeated calls for an independent review of the way in which they operate. 

    “There do not currently seem to be proper safeguards for vulnerable people, and some of the decisions made have been indefensible.”

    He said he was “proud” of the last Labour government’s record on disability rights, increasing support for disabled people “so that those who couldn’t work and their children were pulled out of poverty, but we also increased the employment rate for disabled people by improving the support available to those who could work.

    “However, in the last parliament, we didn’t do enough to defend disabled people from a range of damaging Tory policies, and under my leadership Labour will be a stronger voice for disabled people.”



  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,862 Championing

    You are here: Home / Politics / Government bribed its way to victory on WRAG cut, says disabled peer
    Lord Low speaking in the debate

    Government bribed its way to victory on WRAG cut, says disabled peer

    By John Pring on 10th March 2016 Category: Politics

    A disabled peer has launched a furious attack on MPs, after he was forced to admit defeat in the battle to prevent the government cutting out-of-work disability benefits for tens of thousands of claimants by £1, 500 a year.

    The decision, which will mean a loss of about £30 a week for new employment and support allowance (ESA) claimants placed in the work-related activity group (WRAG) from April 2017, has angered disabled peers, disabled activists, and disability organisations.

    The government measure was described this week by campaigners and peers as “drastic and without justification”, “harsh”, “dreadful”, “punitive” and “counter-productive”.

    MPs had twice blocked attempts by peers to throw out or delay the cuts, but the Lords finally had to admit defeat this week because parliamentary convention means MPs have the final say on matters that have financial implications for the government.

    Lord [Colin] Low (pictured during the debate), who has led attempts in the Lords to defeat the WRAG measure, said: “The Commons have spoken decisively and we must bow to their wishes, but we do so under protest.

    “Do not let anyone kid you that this is democracy in action. There is more to democracy than just being elected.”

    He said the House of Lords was “much more democratic” than the Commons because it was more representative of the population, more accessible, more open and more responsive.

    He said: “Organisations representing the needs of poor and dispossessed people find it much easier to get their point across and have it taken on board in the House of Lords than in the House of Commons.”

    And he said that Tory whips – whose job it is to enforce the government’s wishes among its MPs – had been “working overtime” before the measure was voted on last week, and he accused them of “handing out bribes and blandishments like there was no tomorrow”.

    Lord Low said he and his colleagues in the Lords had listened to disabled people, while the House of Commons had “preferred to listen to the government”, which failed to provide “any convincing reason” for their decision to cut WRAG payments.

    He said the WRAG cut was “emblematic of the way in which this Conservative government have chosen to treat disabled people”. 

    He said: “The fact is that ministers are looking for large savings at the expense of the poorest and most vulnerable.

    “That was not made clear in the general election campaign; then, the prime minister said that disabled people would be protected.

    “By this action, the government have betrayed the trust of disabled people and they should not be surprised if they forfeit it for the rest of their time in office.”

    His fellow disabled crossbench peer, Baroness [Jane] Campbell, told her fellow peers: “The minister is asking us to have faith again today, but I hope and pray that we do not look back on this day as the moment when we pushed some of the most severely disabled people in Britain over the edge.”

    She said she found it “very difficult when the niceties of parliamentary protocol trump the lives of disabled people”.

    Baroness Campbell said that words had failed her last week when she heard the arguments made by ministers in favour of the WRAG cut.

    She said: “In my view, our arguments were pretty indisputable, especially with regard to the absence of evidence that cutting severely disabled people’s employment and support allowance would incentivise them to work.” 

    A third disabled crossbencher, Baroness [Tanni] Grey-Thompson, said she was “deeply disappointed” at what had happened.

    She said: “I and others spent a great deal of time last week working through every possibility of tabling another amendment to send this dreadful and punitive part of the bill back to the other place.

    “Unfortunately, because of parliamentary procedure, that was not possible.”

    She added: “I apologise to the people affected by this bill that, at this point, we could not do any more.

    “This may be the end of the legislative process, but it is the start of the negative impact the bill will have on thousands of people’s lives.”

    Lord Freud, the welfare reform minister, paid tribute to the three disabled peers who he said had “argued so passionately against the changes that we are introducing”.

    He said their concerns would be “right at the forefront of our minds—certainly of my mind” as the government finalises its forthcoming white paper on employment support for disabled people.

    The bill has now cleared all of its parliamentary hurdles and only has to receive royal assent before it becomes law.

    After the debate, Disability Rights UK said in a blog that the cut was “drastic and without justification”, was “terrible news” for disabled people, and “will do nothing to incentivise employment – quite the opposite”, while the government was “profoundly wrong to make this harsh and counter-productive cut”.

    The charity added: “The risk that we are clearly facing is that from 2017, many disabled people will just be worse off – when already disabled people are so disproportionately affected by poverty.”


  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,862 Championing

    Taxpayers ‘left to foot bill for DWP’s assessment failures’ as costs set to double

    By John Pring on 8th January 2016 Category: Benefits and Poverty

    Disabled people have been failed by the government’s inability to manage the assessments for disability benefits that are carried out by outsourcing giants Atos Maximus and Capita, according to the chair of an influential committee of MPs.

    Labour MP Meg Hillier, who chairs the Commons public accounts committee, spoke out after a damning report by the public spending watchdog, which found spending on assessments was set to double in just two years while the three companies were failing to meet the required standards.

    The assessments help determine eligibility for employment and support allowance (ESA) and personal independence payment (PIP), and also aim to support people on sick leave back into work as part of the new Fit for Work service.

    But the National Audit Office (NAO) said the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) had failed to achieve value for money from the health and disability assessments it had contracted out to Atos, Maximus and Capita.

    In 2014-15, DWP spent about £275 million on assessment contracts, but this is expected to more than double to £579 million by 2016-17.

    Between April 2015 and March 2018, DWP expects the three companies to carry out about seven million assessments, at an estimated cost of £1.6 billion.

    It also expects the contractors will increase the number of healthcare professionals they employ by more than 80 per cent, from 2,200 in May 2015 to 4,050 in November 2016.


    Woodbine, what has changed?



  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,862 Championing

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone 

    You're talking about the basic agreement/conditionality always signed for then not another name


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    WhatThe said:

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone 

    You're talking about the basic agreement/conditionality always signed for then not another name


    Everyone always has a claimant commitment for UC and New style ESA/JSA. 

    What you’ve posted above is from 2016 so I don’t understand why you’ve posted them here. 
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    WhatThe said:

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone 

    You're talking about the basic agreement/conditionality always signed for then not another name


    Everyone always has a claimant commitment for UC and New style ESA/JSA. 

    What you’ve posted above is from 2016 so I don’t understand why you’ve posted them here. 
    Agreed - let’s try to stick with 2023 news and sources at the very least 

    sometimes scaremongering is hard to avoid and I’m not a fan of liz Kendall myself but politics moves fast and quotes from 2016 from someone whom was never in a position of power 9 years ago is null and void imo
  • Ralph
    Ralph Online Community Member Posts: 146 Empowering
    Has there been a defence of sick and disabled from Labour from these latest Tory proposals? The bank account snooping and the changes to requirements for sick people.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    apple85 said:
    WhatThe said:

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone 

    You're talking about the basic agreement/conditionality always signed for then not another name


    Everyone always has a claimant commitment for UC and New style ESA/JSA. 

    What you’ve posted above is from 2016 so I don’t understand why you’ve posted them here. 
    Agreed - let’s try to stick with 2023 news and sources at the very least 

    sometimes scaremongering is hard to avoid and I’m not a fan of liz Kendall myself but politics moves fast and quotes from 2016 from someone whom was never in a position of power 9 years ago is null and void imo
    Can’t disagree with that and spamming the forum on multiple threads with the same information definitely isn’t helping. 
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    edited November 2023
    On the old bank checking thread before it was closed I mentioned that in terms of the (unconfirmed) reports of the dwp seeking powers to look at means tested benefit claimants bank accounts for monthly checks to catch out fraud - that we’d know more on Wednesday (today) 

    well that good news is that I’ve found the amendment document which will be presented/discussed in commons today 

    bad news is Ive only found the haystack………..yet to find the needle

    its a large doc and it’s written in politics ‘speech’ so it may take a hr or so in reading time to locate the relevant parts.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0314/amend/datapro_day_rep_1129.pdf

    I’ll also repost my post from that old thread on here later as it has some relevant info


    can everyone withhold questions for now whilst I try and digest this doc and find the ‘needle’ - I don’t have answers right now but I’m working on it


    UPDATE: god that’s a complex doc and I’m not 100% sure on this but I believe the pages we are interested in are pages 120 to 139

    but I have noticed that the social security stuff (that’s to do with welfare benefits) is not the only controversial subject in this bill - I’d be surprised if the House of Lords roll through this at top speed

  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    edited November 2023
    UPDATE 2: honestly I’m having difficulty understanding what the changes actually are - I know that if the ‘data protection and digital information’ bill passes/gets royal assent than existing bills such as ‘social security administration act 1992) will be amended as well as other existing acts.

    I know people on this thread want be to explain things In layman terms (an ‘dummies guide to’ so to speak)

    but I’m having trouble ‘translating’ what pages 120-139 means for those of us on means tested benefits and we may either have to wait for a news source to understandably explain things or perhaps another scope member or mod can make sense of those pages

    Below are probably the most reliable new sources I can find but they aren’t up to date and are short on details:

    https://www.ukauthority.com/articles/dwp-to-be-allowed-more-checks-on-bank-data/

    https://techmonitor.ai/government-computing/data-protection-bill-digital-information-dwp-benefit-claimants

    UPDATE 3: I’m reading through the pages 120-139 trying to make sense and I’ve noticed that so far they haven’t specified that any of this (which I’m still unclear if the doc confirms the dwp want to do monthly checks - they haven’t outright said it but noting in the doc is straightforward to understand) will apply to means tested benefit only.
    What this means is that whatever this policy turns out to be the gov may be trying to apply it to all types of welfare benefits which in the extreme case may rope in pip claimants and state pension claimants.

    as I said I’m having huge trouble understanding and everyone should take much less than a pinch of salt - but if I did understand correct I expect the House of Lords (many who are state pension age) will tear this apart
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    edited November 2023
    So to summarise (which is difficult as not a lot is clear)

    in terms of the rumours of the dwp wanting to do monthly checks the below doc contains the actual amendments the government wants to make:
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0314/amend/datapro_day_rep_1129.pdf
    part of the ‘data protection and digital information bill’

    scroll to pages 120-139

    reference number - gov NS1

    title/aim - to move the following schedule: ‘power to require information for social security purposes’

    summary statement - 

    As I said it’s not very clear


    government is having the 3rd reading of the bill today (29/11/23) and there will be votes on some of the amendments 

    edit: today is the report stage and the 3rd reading……sorry

    if everything passes through (the gov has a 60 majority so I presume it will), the next step should be the House of Lords first reading

    i don’t think this will be a quick and straightforward bill to make into law as there are many controversial parts (such as the gov getting powers to help them find out individuals voting preferences) - also I didn’t see them mention ‘AI’ which is the only way they’d be able to carry out half the stuff they want to do)

    https://techmonitor.ai/government-computing/dwp-fraud-and-error-ai-is-still-in-its-infancy-civil-servants-tell-govt-committee

    https://techmonitor.ai/leadership/digital-transformation/dwp-ai-fraud-bias

    much of the whole bill is highly invasive, challenges the right for privacy and therefore human rights as an extension and basically nanny state stuff - once the journalists start reporting on the details I’ll be shocked if their isn’t some sort of backlash on parts of the ‘data protection and digital information bill’
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    edited November 2023
    The govs official announcement- still short on details:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-data-protection-laws-to-unlock-post-brexit-opportunity

    The changes include new powers to require data from third parties, particularly banks and financial organisations, to help the UK government reduce benefit fraud and save the taxpayer up to £600 million over the next five years. Currently, Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) can only undertake fraud checks on a claimant on an individual basis, where there is already a suspicion of fraud.

    The new proposals would allow regular checks to be carried out on the bank accounts held by benefit claimants to spot increases in their savings which push them over the benefit eligibility threshold, or when people send more time overseas than the benefit rules allow for. This will help identify fraud take action more quickly. To make sure that privacy concerns are at the heart of these new measures, only a minimum amount of data will be accessed and only in instances which show a potential risk of fraud and error.


     or when people send more time overseas than the benefit rules allow for.” 

    - this doesn’t make 100% to me…

    ……..is this talking about claimants sending money to individuals abroad (they’d be looking for claimant sending money to relatives but could rope in claimants buying things from an overseas seller…….which imagine many of us has been……..even factoring customs a lot of things are cheaper mailed from abroad than the uk)

    ………. or is referring to claimants spending more time overseas (those who claim uk benefits but don’t ‘live’ in the uk)……….those claimants who are on holiday (and therefore bank card will show overseas purchase) could be accidentally roped into that


    The reason I’m worried is that I’m 99% that stride and the dwp will need ai to carry all this out and in my last post I included links on this subject and bottom line is the the ai that dwp have access to is nowhere near ready to do this and even if it was it’s so controversial and with the dwp’s past data breach’s in mind they could be risking major lawsuits if something goes wrong as they will be looking at 5-10 million individuals bank accounts

  • Ralph
    Ralph Online Community Member Posts: 146 Empowering
    Given the dire history of Government IT projects this will likely be a shambles. 
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    edited November 2023
    https://www.publictechnology.net/2023/11/28/society-and-welfare/dwp-estimates-access-to-benefit-claimants-bank-data-will-lead-to-7400-annual-prosecutions/


    How stupid are the gov if they are actually end up roping in everyone on state pension (ie….everyone over 67-68) into this regular bank surveillance from the dwp

    pensioners are a huge outspoken group whom are politically vital to keep on the right side

    I’ve already read of many mps and lords against this today (any mp or lord over the age of 65 will also need to share their bank account details to the dwp as you can’t opt out of state pension so if this does happen than that knock on effect would be hilarious)

    I think if nothing else if this does come into play all of us will need to be much more aware of what’s going in out accounts and what’s going out (and figure out work around when needed)

    A lord called prem sikka posted a hugely scaremongering tweet today - I think he may of gotten the extreme end of the stick but family giving claimants money or vica versa to help out may become more problematic under this 

    moral of the story - physical cash still has value
  • carbow32
    carbow32 Online Community Member Posts: 253 Empowering

     

    I would go back to taking my money out in cash each week
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    carbow32 said:

     

    I would go back to taking my money out in cash each week
    But that in itself would be flagged up in theory


    https://www.retailbankerinternational.com/news/bank-spying-clause-added-to-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill/?cf-view

    https://publiclawproject.org.uk/resources/how-the-new-data-bill-waters-down-protections/


    Right now it looks like only the independent is reporting all this

    i do think if all the major media publishes this that public backlash would be huge and a u-turn would be very possible as this is a massive breach of the ‘right for privacy’ which is once again a human rights issue.

    also it sounds like the dwp are ordering the banks to carry out the checks for the them and this may go against the protection that banks promise their customers 

    I think one of the articles I posted said:



    In fact further down the article a minister had the cheek to call it a brexit perk (justed adding to the rejoin argument - not saying if we should or not)

    but those 2 banks that are being the Guinea pigs for this in 2025 - if my bank is one of them (and it will only be a matter of time to figure out which 2 bank names) I’m closing my account and moving banks (I’ll try and figure out the 3% that are being skipped if I could)

    but I’ll be shocked if there wasn’t a lawsuit at some point at the very least (prehaps the human rights courts may get involved if they believe the right to privacy is human rights) - as I said, let’s see if the House of Lords kick up a fuss and hold things up to post election at the least
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    woodbine said:
    I'm sorry but I don't buy into this nonsense about pension(ers) being included in any of this as they are not means tested.
    If most of this thread were paper at least I could put a match to it.
    I thought it was only going to be means tested too.

    I didn’t even consider that it was possible that the dwp would target non means tested payments that goes through the dwp such as pip, state pension, even child tax credits

    and it’s not me who has reached these conclusions - these are things and concerns that were brought up by mp’s in the House of Commons today and they are valid worries (that the dwp could try and widen the net whom this applies to)

    and if by papers you mean newspapers then I did post a link earlier from the independent (sorry I don’t read physical papers nor do I have a scanner)

    and yes perhaps the Bracknell news was not the best source but ‘retail banker international’ and ‘publictechnology.net’ seem to use subject specialist journalists who have knowledge in these things



    ive tried to stay quiet on this woodbine but on this thread a few times now I feel like you’ve been borderline rude towards the fact that I’m obviously very active in adding content to this thread 

    I’ve noticed that a lot of the scope community just do basic online searches rather than full blown internet digging (which I do try and do) hence why I created this thread, a space to place all the in-depth research.

    id love to have constructive conversations with others on this thread but going by the views I at least hope that I’ve provided some helpful information, explanations and updates amongst the rants 

    the scope forum has helped me so much in the past answering my questions and I feel like this thread is an (admittedly unasked) way to pay it forward

    but if other members reading this thread are ‘bored’ then instead of ‘heckling’ just ask me to let this thread die by itself - I’ll go back to being a member that just asks the questions when I need to figure out something…………it’s much easier to be selfish and look out for number one, I don’t like wasting anyone’s time including my own
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 892 Championing
    A last post as it appears like it would be best to leave this forum for a while


    i noticed some forum members saying that they won’t vote in the next general election because they leave in a safe seat

    every vote is a person using their voice - and throwing away your voice in a country where democracy is becoming harder to find is a waste.

    there is also a huge difference between mp’s with 15k+ majorities (they are overly safe, may not feel like they need to earn votes as their seats are given to them on a platter each election) and less than an 5k majority (their seat, and therefore job is not guaranteed after the current term and said mp will need to work hard to gain new voters and keep the old ones)

    so if you live in a safe seat with a bad mp whom takes things for granted then at least you can send a message by reducing their majority if you can’t get rid of them at the nearest GE

    my advice would be to vote tactically but if that isn’t possible for whatever reason then don’t throw away your vote but use your vote as a protest vote………vote for the candidate that may serve you best and/or actually gives a **** about people like us…………..even if they have no chance of winning………for any decent candidate every singular vote is important and cherished by them.

    so sign up to the vote register and use your vote next general election

    don't be selfish in not voting or spoiling your vote but selfishly vote for the best tactical vote for yourself or the best individual candidate on offer as a protest vote
  • Bettahm
    Bettahm Online Community Member Posts: 1,441 Championing
    This thread is extremely helpful to those of us who struggle to understand all the political language etc 
    It's a minefield out there. Thank you for navigating the way of better understanding @apple85
  • judie
    judie Online Community Member Posts: 323 Empowering
    apple85 you have worked very hard on research, thanks. For your own sake, take a break - you deserve it