Any possibility of a Judaism and disability event?

2

Comments

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    So have there been others as you mentioned ?
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    We should be discussing the event not the people who feel excluded!
  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 1,204 Championing
    WhatThe said:

    I don't know which events Scope has hosted ever. How else do we address these timeless problems without dialogue though?

    I got the impression that four women hosted this and I've no idea who initiated it. Someone will be along shortly to explain I'm sure


    I'm uncertain if there have been comparable events in the past. When I came across the event titled 'Islam and Disability,' as a non-Muslim, I hesitated to open the post, mistakenly assuming from the subject box that only Muslim members were welcome.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 16,867 Championing
    Hi @MW123 - I was previously a Scope member, &, sorry have only just noticed you are now one (I had to choose between remaining a Scope member & staying on the Research Panel, which I'd been on longer, so chose the latter). I remember as a Scope member seeing there'd be an event for something along the lines of 'young' disabled people, so thought I shouldn't join in, but Giovanni commented that everyone was welcome; the same will be true of this event. 
    My apologies for perhaps misunderstanding, tho, as I commented about religion, there are more similarities than differences IMHO, & issues that affect all disabled people. It's awful that for whatever reason disabled people may face discrimination, which I'm sure we all abhor.
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    I assumed it was about disability and Islam which might have been a better title and for anyone interested. 

    You said events which I took literally - After reading the above I have concerns about Scope's recent shift towards creating events for specific religious groups.


  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    And I naturally assumed that Scope would not hold such an event in isolation and intends to continue with themes around disability..

    I was clumsy to say it was a ridiculous question and I sincerely apologise to you wandering chris. 

    It's a great question and I look forward to learning about religions in relation to disability. I'm sorry I was so dismissive and hope your friend is safe now. 
    Would you like me to delete my posts on your thread?  


  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 16,867 Championing
    Some confusion may have crept in (well at least it did in my case), in that whilst we're all members of Scope's online community, you have to apply to become a 'Scope member,' which is free. Please see: https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/95730/we-are-relaunching-our-membership-become-a-scope-member-today-for-free/p1 which explains the concept. The online meeting/event about 'Islam & disability' is for Scope members.


  • Jimm_Alumni
    Jimm_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,717 Championing
    Hi everyone, I've read through this and wanted to say there's been some interesting points made here, I have enjoyed reading the debate so far. I would like to say though, please try to avoid making generalised negative statements about entire groups of people. It is often unhelpful to the discussion and can cause animosity. Instead, consider how to you might be able to word you thoughts in a less generalising or negative manner.


    I think there is some intersectionality between those who are of various religions and being disabled. Religious scripture can talk about disability differently, as well as be interpreted in a multitude of ways. This can cause differing experiences for disabled people depending on their religion. Even within Christianity you can have wildly differing experiences depending on denomination, as @chiarieds brings up with Jehovah's Witnesses', who often refuse many treatments. 

    Being in a minority can put up barriers to accessing healthcare and accessing support when disabled. It can often be helpful to target the groups in a separate manner. While we are all connected by being disabled, doing these more targeted events can help us spot issues that specific groups are having that the wider group are not having.

    As @wandering_chris mentions, Jewish is an Ethnoreligious group. My partner is both ethnically and religiously Jewish. As a small example of what this can mean, there is a much higher rate of breast cancer among those who are Jewish due to a specific gene that has been detected. Campaigning and awareness on this issue has meant the NHS is rolling out a program to help test and detect this gene, and then people who have the gene will receive breast cancer screenings earlier and more frequently.
  • wandering_chris
    wandering_chris Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 104 Empowering
    WhatThe said:

    And I naturally assumed that Scope would not hold such an event in isolation and intends to continue with themes around disability..

    I was clumsy to say it was a ridiculous question and I sincerely apologise to you wandering chris. 

    It's a great question and I look forward to learning about religions in relation to disability. I'm sorry I was so dismissive and hope your friend is safe now. 
    Would you like me to delete my posts on your thread?  



    That's quite alright and I accept your apology, my friend, well, he's sort of in a daze after what he's done, coming to terms I think.
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    chris, thank you, that's very generous of you  :)

    Jimm, point taken. Please advise re editing facility as I still can't edit also guidance for deleting posts, perhaps on the home page?

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    If I may try to explain? Initially, it sounded to me like "oh they've got something, what about us?" and ignored the post.

    In terms of religions in a secular country, I'm upset that I can't buy organic chicken in major supermarkets around me but see aisles of Halal and Kosher or 'higher welfare' meat. Market stalls next to clothing shops turn my stomach and they're everywhere  :s
     
    I'd rather go without than buy cheap chicken and eggs. Easy choice but I'm still unhappy about the emphasis in certain religions on slaughter rather the life lived. Pointing something out as I'm doing here isn't negative I hope. Animals matter too and debating religion is important for all of us!  


  • wandering_chris
    wandering_chris Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 104 Empowering
    WhatThe said:

    If I may try to explain? Initially, it sounded to me like "oh they've got something, what about us?" and ignored the post.

    In terms of religions in a secular country, I'm upset that I can't buy organic chicken in major supermarkets around me but see aisles of Halal and Kosher or 'higher welfare' meat. Market stalls next to clothing shops turn my stomach and they're everywhere  :s
     
    I'd rather go without than buy cheap chicken and eggs. Easy choice but I'm still unhappy about the emphasis in certain religions on slaughter rather the life lived. Pointing something out as I'm doing here isn't negative I hope. Animals matter too and debating religion is important for all of us!  



    As for me vegetarian mate, much easier and in my mind more in line with what Kosher is.

    I meant as for my mate he's veggie, sorry
  • wandering_chris
    wandering_chris Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 104 Empowering
    woodbine said:
    If you want my opinion any thread about religion is always going to be divisive and from scopes perspective should perhaps be avoided/discouraged in the future.

    Let's not avoid difficult questions about where disability meets other aspects of our lives - They don't exist in a vacuum after all. Yes, difficult questions produce difficult feelings, even difficult answers but they need to be had.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 16,867 Championing
    edited February 2024
    Whilst I take onboard @Jimm_Scope 's comment about screening for faults with BRCA genes, which I hadn't known about, I knew that Ashkenazi Jews have a much higher rate of Tay-Sachs disease than other groups of people (& 4 other disorders), this relates to ethnicity & not just a person's religious belief. 
    However, I hadn't thought about how different religious scriptures view disabled people, & how this viewpoint has in some changed over the centuries. I've therefore been reading about both Judaism & Islam today the better to learn more, as well as seeing what Christianity has to say about disability. I therefore am pleased this thread has had further discussion.
  • Jimm_Alumni
    Jimm_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,717 Championing
    edited February 2024
    It can be difficult to talk about and can be divisive, but sometimes we do need to discuss these things. But I do find it's very good to share our different experiences. To also consider if there's experiences and stories we might be missing from the larger tapestry that is the experience of being disabled, which we can try to rectify just by asking people we have not heard from. 

    Of course, we cannot ignore the bigger picture, but to help everyone we need to know the different struggles that different groups of people have.

    Edit: And I did not know about Tay-Sachs disease having a higher rate in Ashkenazi Jews! So I have learnt something too. Of course it is related to ethnicity, but with Judaism/Jewish it can be difficult to pull ethnicity and religion entirely apart. The two are so intertwined through centuries of history. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 16,867 Championing
    Did you know that those who are adopted have a higher rate (1 in 4) of suicide? https://www.verywellmind.com/what-are-the-mental-health-effects-of-being-adopted-5217799  now I'm not saying I neccessarily agree with studies so far done, but as someone who was adopted as a 6 month old baby there have been some issues that have affected my life.
    Well of course I didn't know I had a genetic disorder, as no family history. I had the most wonderful parents, who were my parents, so no issue there. I hid my problems, as many do, but to me this was just my 'normal.'
    Fast forward to when I found out at the age of 47 just exactly what the hereditary disorders I had were. I had noticed earlier that my eldest child was displaying some of the symptoms I'd had at her age, & she was the one who'd wanted me to find out more. The response from my cousin, 'what a shame you didn't come with a tag on your toe about your medical history, so your parents could have chosen another baby.'
    Wonderful as my parents were, I didn't find a sense of completely 'belonging' until I had my own family, & wondered how my Mum could have given me up, but perhaps it was due to the genetic disorder she may also have had; it had to have come from one of my parents? Then there was at the time the stigma of being an unmarried mother, which I found out she was.
    So, well about having a hereditary disorder, & how this may feel 'different' to others experience of disability. I've passed these disorders onto my 3 children, & then to my 3 grandchildren. There's 'variable expression' within any family if it's an autosomal dominant trait, which explains us all, & we do therefore have some understanding of each other. Others with an autosomal recessive disorder, etc may feel differently.
    Perhaps a discussion about heritable disorders, & how that's different to becoming disabled in other ways?


  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 1,204 Championing
    @chiarieds

    Your story is fascinating thanks for sharing. The points your raise would be a great topic for discussion.  I have a male friend with a similar background  we have been good friends for many years.  He was adopted in the early seventies. He knows his biological mother was a white university student and his father was of Caribbean descent, making him mixed race. Like you, his adoptive parents provided a great upbringing. 

    He told me he felt he always had to try harder to please not that anyone asked him to but he felt he could not  let them down. He knew from an early age he was adopted as his adoptive parents were both white. Due to his genetic heritage he had to be tested for sickle cell, he doesn't have the condition but carries the gene.

    I asked him why he did not start tracing his biological family, given technological advancements. His response was poignant; he fears disappointment and potential disapproval due to being gay, I did not understand this so he explained, his birth parents might not approve of his sexual orientation, made me very sad.
  • Giovanni_Scope
    Giovanni_Scope Scope Membership Team, Scope Posts: 109 Empowering
    edited February 2024
    Hello everyone,

    I am Giovanni, Scope's Membership Programme Lead and the person who organises our members events.

    I'll try to reply to a few concerns raised above by different users - apologies in advance if I forgot anything.

    But before I start, let me remind you that you can all become member of Scope for free!

    Please sign up for free as member now, if you are not a member yet!

    Let's start then!

    Why talking about Islam and disability?

    We run events throughout the year focusing on a variety of communities and individual conditions or impairments - see below. It is important to us as an organisation to create these spaces and help facilitate meaningful conversations.

    Scope organised this event about Islam and disability to ensure inclusion and foster understanding of all our members. Many disabled people in the UK are also Muslim. By addressing the theme of Islam and disability, we tackle specific challenges faced by disabled Muslims. This aligns with Scope's commitment to Equality, Diversity and Inclusion.

    Is this event only for Muslim members?

    Not at all! All members from any background are welcome to attend to hear more and contribute to the discussion.

    Are there going to be events for other groups?

    Our Members social events are normally an occasion to talk about the experience of different marginalised communities.

    For example, our previous social events focused on discussing the experience of:

    We will consider the suggestion from @wandering_chris about an event on Judaism and disability in the future.

    Why don’t you focus on the experience of white disabled people? And why do you divide the disabled community in so many groups?

    There are 16 million disabled people in the UK and the disabled community is diverse. At Scope, we want to talk openly and honestly about all aspects of disabled people’s identities. 

    Disabled people from multiple marginalised communities often face extra layers of discrimination. For example, Muslim disabled people may face Islamophobia and ableism. And Black, Asian and minority ethnic disabled people may face racism and ableism. At Scope, we want to acknowledge people’s identities as a whole. And build understanding and respect in the disabled community so we can fight against all forms of discrimination.

    What is your policy around Equality, Diversity and inclusion?


    I hope that helps to clarify why we organise this kind of events, and that everyone is welcome to join!

    I hope to see many of you at our event on 26 February,

    Giovanni
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 3,919 Championing

    ..but with Judaism/Jewish it can be difficult to pull ethnicity and religion entirely apart. The two are so intertwined through centuries of history. 

    But Jimm, surely that's true of other religions?
    Ethnicity and heritage should be celebrated of course! 
     

    All kinds of disability are inheritable. People all over the world inherit characteristics specific to gender and race but religion is secondary to that IMO. Religion sets people apart for no good reason (and usually disadvantages women). The world is in crisis because of religious practice and identity - in the US, in Europe again so why do we never learn from history? 
    Why do people insist on these outdated beliefs in the 21st century?     


  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 1,204 Championing
    @Giovanni_Scope

    I would like to request that a link to a recording of the event be made available to members afterwards. Many members have commitments on that date and are unable to join in at the time.