Managed migration starting September 2024

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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    woodbine said:
    Poppy thanks for that 
    You're welcome. 
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Online Community Member Posts: 4,110 Championing
    Meg24 said:

    I'm scared they might close my claim for failure to engage, but my disability directly affects my ability to engage, so I'm not sure what to do.
    I'm dreading the migration as well.

    I also can't use a telephone or video call, or have a home visit or travel to the job centre.

    There is absolutely no way I can have any direct contact for even one initial assessment.  I'm just hoping that it can be done via the journal.  I'll be right up the creek if not!

    I can't be worrying about that on top of everything else right now though, will just have to wait and see what happens when I get the migration letter.
  • Cat1986
    Cat1986 Online Community Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Hi poppy 
    I'm just after some clarification, you say you will need to make sure that once you have access to a journal that you put a message on that to tell them which group you were in when claiming ESA. That you will very likely be asked to provide a fit note as part of the claims process but not provide that fit note as  there's no need to do so and that it could trigger another wca. Could you please clarify what you did if they then kept asking for a fit note in the meanwhile. What do yo do /or tell them until they are told or get clarification from esa as you say it can take esa a few weeks to salend your details across. Could this  therefore not delay your process or halt it.  
    As I say I'm just asking for a bit more clarification on that. 
    Sorry if seem a bit nosy. 
    Any help is greatly appreciated 

    Thank you 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Cat1986 said:
    Hi poppy 
    I'm just after some clarification, you say you will need to make sure that once you have access to a journal that you put a message on that to tell them which group you were in when claiming ESA. That you will very likely be asked to provide a fit note as part of the claims process but not provide that fit note as  there's no need to do so and that it could trigger another wca. Could you please clarify what you did if they then kept asking for a fit note in the meanwhile. What do yo do /or tell them until they are told or get clarification from esa as you say it can take esa a few weeks to salend your details across. Could this  therefore not delay your process or halt it.  
    As I say I'm just asking for a bit more clarification on that. 
    Sorry if seem a bit nosy. 
    Any help is greatly appreciated 

    Thank you 

    I don't claim UC as still claiming Income Related ESA that includes the SDP. I just know that a fit note isn't needed. You need to be persistent and keep telling them you don't need a fit note. It will not delay anything. 
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 888 Championing
    woodbine said:
    So benefits and work and rightsnet are reporting the DWP have announced this, does anyone have a link to an actual announcement ?

    update I have just found this (thanks to rights net) and it doesn't seem quite as grim

    Having initially excluded claimants in receipt of ESA only, or ESA and housing benefit only, from the migration process until 2028, the government announced in April 2024 that migration of these groups will be brought forward so that all migration notices will have been sent out by the end of December 2025:
    poppy123456 said:
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/esa-to-uc-migration-to-begin-in-september-2024#:~:text=The%20DWP%20has%20announced%20in,the%20move%20by%20December%202025.


    I would like to add some observations (don’t take the following as 100% fact - they are all my personal educated guesstimates) to these update on uc rollout

    > This is the direct link to the source which the benefits and work forum is using:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/la-welfare-direct-bulletins-2024/la-welfare-direct-52024#latest-update-move-to-universal-credit

    now the following passage stood out to me



    A few weeks back I made an educated guess that due to the existing rollout of uc the earliest the dwp would start to send out migration notices (if they intend for no overlap) as sept 2024

    Looks like that guesstimate was a good once but I’d like to draw your attention to “our current planning assumption” - this means that a start of sept 2024 is at best a penciled in date (a provisional date that has yet to be confirmed officially)
    this is backed by the quote “delivery approach and timelines WILL be informed by detailed planning and engagement with stakeholders” aka an updated official gov uc rollout timetable has yet to be decided on

    > I found this update on where the dwp are in terms where they are in the official (most recent update) of uc managed migration rollout

    https://www.communities-ni.gov.uk/news/tax-credit-housing-benefit-recipients-next-move-uc

    what stood out to me reading this link is that claimants are currently being broken into smaller subgroups (probably for organisation/simplifying reasons by the dwp)

    the group that was earmarked for a 2028/29 managed uc migration rollout (legacy claimants currently claiming esa only & esa+housing benefit) is an extremely broad group when comparing it to current dwp rollout schedule 

    which leaves me pondering the following - will the esaonly/esa+housing benefits be broken up into further subgroups once the updated rollout schedule gets officially confirmed?

    4 broad subgroups come to mind:

    - esa (wrag group) only
    - esa (support group) only
    - esa (wrag group) + housing benefit
    - esa (support group) + housing benefit

    and on top of the above there are the more complex awards with extra award elements, the disability premiums(aka claimants that without the transitional protection stand to be the big losers in the esa to uc migration rollout as most of these disability premiums exist in esa but don’t exist in uc)

    those with more complex/less straightforward esa awards include (and also refer to link - https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiums/what-youll-get)

    - severe disability premium 

    - enhanced disability premium 

    https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/disability-premiums-in-benefits#:~:text=You%20qualify%20for%20an%20Enhanced,Payment%20Daily%20Living%20component%20enhanced


    in theory the dwp should leave the most complex esa awards (by that I’m referring to those with disability premium add ons - NOT how severe your personal conditions are) till last

    however approx 50% of the esa/esa+hb broad group of legacy claimants stand to be better off under uc (hence why the gov wanted to delay migration for this group till 2028/2029 in the first place - because the gov estimated they saved £4-5bil with the delay) and those with disability premiums will (without transitional protection) are the big losers of uc migration (and more financially attractive for the dwp to target first)



    of course they could keep this esa/esa+hb as one big group rather than subgroups and pick alphabetically, by region, randomly (but the uc migration rollout has been breaking us into smaller more manageable subgroups up till now)


    > if the dwp start to rollout managed migration for esa/esa+hb claimants from September 2024 and be fully completed by dec 2025 (so last migration notices going out end of sept 2025) this means that going by the provisional timetable the dwp intend to send migration notices to around 600k households (source - https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9984/CBP-9984.pdf) in a 13 month period (approx 46k a month)
    to me this seems rushed even by dwp standards, especially when you consider the amount of complex cases. Once details have been hashed out with shareholders it should be concluded (if the dwp have any common sense) that a dec 2025 end date is ridiculously unrealistic 
    (But that’s my own common sense - we know the likes of stride have none)


    to conclude this long post hopefully we get the official updated rollout calendar in this month or June/july 
    (I also personally hope we are split into subgroups as narrowed down dates are easier to plan around - even if that means I’m one of the 1st hit by the updated rollout…….i just don’t like surprises)



  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 888 Championing

    I guess my major concern (once the migration notice has been sent back and switch happen - I have a few prior concerns due to personal circumstance that I don’t want to mention on a public forum) is the potential of triggering a new wca (first under the uc banner) accidentally 

    I know that because of the pandemic & resulting backlog many of us legacy esa claimants haven’t been reassessed since before early 2020 (the start of covid and lockdowns) - though esa is an ongoing award many of us are probably past the dwp recommended review date so many of us are worried the esa59/uc50 forms could come any day in theory

    poppy’s comment on the uc journal and having to type your legacy esa award (as the dwp uc department won’t get that info straightaway) and that the dwp will respond by asking for a sick note but not to send one as that may trigger a new wca (did I understand that post of yours correctly?) is interesting (though the potential pitfall is worrying)

    I hope when the rollout starts (or those legacy esa claimants who have already gone through managed migration will share their experiences, possible catches and advice on how to get through managed migration in the most straightforward way (keeping things ‘as you were’ and not triggering a premature review/wca of uc after the move over)


    I do have a question as we’ve had so many dwp press releases and newer changes to the new upcoming changes that I honestly can’t keep up

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/has-the-dwp-already-stopped-reassessing-support-group-and-lcwra-claimants

    re: chance to work guarantee

    is this still starting 2025 (no more wca for support group/lcwra group until assessment combined with pip assessment 2028/29)?

    or did the tories already scrap it?

    (i know that Labour may bin the policy but if it goes ahead it may act as a reprieve for us that have never had a uc wca…….that we may never have one and be left alone for a few years - touch wood)




  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    @apple85 yes you read correctly when transferring from ESA to UC you do not need a fit note. If they ask and likely they will then tell them that it’s not needed as are claiming ESA in the Support Group. 

    I’ve probably advised hundreds of people that have moved across through natural migration and can’t recall anyone coming back to say that they were referred for another WCA. 

    There has been some Support Group and LCWRA claimants that have been reviewed since the pandemic. Some were chosen last year as I remember quite a few threads for both ESA and UC. 

    As for the possible changes in the future. They are still proposals and no they haven’t yet been scrapped.  I read that link you posted up and it confirms that they are not 100% sure what it means exactly. I think at the moment it’s just assumptions. 
  • Meg24
    Meg24 Online Community Member Posts: 390 Trailblazing
    edited May 2024
    If their goal is to save money then they'll be wanting to get as many SDP claimants done before April 25 as possible so they don't have to uprate us or pay our rent increases. I still don't understand how they have been allowed to get away with this. Since 2010 I have lost bedroom tax, mobility DLA, a portion of council tax benefit, and I have also had my Warm Home Discount removed. Now they want to take significantly more and no-one in the press or the opposition seems to have either noticed or care? How would they feel if someone came along and took £200 a month off them?
  • Cat1986
    Cat1986 Online Community Member Posts: 25 Listener
    I read a comment here and it has me concerned, people that have a enhanced disability premium don't get transitional protection. 
    Is that right, even if migrated across. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Cat1986 said:
    I read a comment here and it has me concerned, people that have a enhanced disability premium don't get transitional protection. 
    Is that right, even if migrated across. 
    You have misunderstood that. When transferring across through managed migration you will not be worse off when you do claim UC because TP will be in place to make sure you’re not worse off. 

    Those that claim ESA are highly likely to be better off anyway if their ESA doesn’t include the SDP.

    Those that claim because of natural migration due to change of circumstances will be entitled to SDP Transitional protection BUT this is less than the SDP if you’re in the support group. 
  • Cat1986
    Cat1986 Online Community Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you for the clarification, as you can see I am getting a bit anxious about all of this. 
    This doesnt effect me directly but another family member, but still has effect because of it all.
    The family member gets the enhanced disability premium, so does that mean they will get the transition, but may be worse off. 

    And someone said that they may break the groups down and that they might target those with sdp first. 
  • Cat1986
    Cat1986 Online Community Member Posts: 25 Listener
    And just for clarification the family member is in the support group. 
  • Faithlong
    Faithlong Online Community Member Posts: 69 Contributor
    poppy123456 said:
    @apple85 yes you read correctly when transferring from ESA to UC you do not need a fit note. If they ask and likely they will then tell them that it’s not needed as are claiming ESA in the Support Group. 

    I’ve probably advised hundreds of people that have moved across through natural migration and can’t recall anyone coming back to say that they were referred for another WCA. 

    There has been some Support Group and LCWRA claimants that have been reviewed since the pandemic. Some were chosen last year as I remember quite a few threads for both ESA and UC. 

    As for the possible changes in the future. They are still proposals and no they haven’t yet been scrapped.  I read that link you posted up and it confirms that they are not 100% sure what it means exactly. I think at the moment it’s just assumptions. 

    Hi Poppy, can I ask you please if you are in the legacy ESA Work group But you have this severe disability premium and you also claim PIP, When you are eventually transferred to universal credit can you tell them to put you in the equivalent of what support group is in the UC and send the medical evidence to support that or do you need to fill-in new forms to be moved to the support group in UC?

  • Meg24
    Meg24 Online Community Member Posts: 390 Trailblazing
    Cat1986 said:
    I read a comment here and it has me concerned, people that have a enhanced disability premium don't get transitional protection. 
    Is that right, even if migrated across. 
    They have pledged that nobody will be worse off "at the point of migration" and that's the problem for me. Sure till April I'll get the same but then erosion begins, so no annual inflation uprating, no additional housing element so I will have to pay rent increases in full. I am also concerned about losing free prescriptions as I get a fair amount of meds but am not entitled to exemption. 

    I will, in time once the erosion is completed, be in today's money, approximately £200 per month worse off. And that's assuming I still qualify for the additional new "health element" (old LCWRA) which if the WCA changes go ahead, I won't.  Once that goes, then PIP goes and yes "I *do know that it isn't happening today... (welcome to neurosis) that does not stop me worrying about what could be as well as what IS.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Cat1986 said:
    Thank you for the clarification, as you can see I am getting a bit anxious about all of this. 
    This doesnt effect me directly but another family member, but still has effect because of it all.
    The family member gets the enhanced disability premium, so does that mean they will get the transition, but may be worse off. 

    And someone said that they may break the groups down and that they might target those with sdp first. 
    The disability premiums do not exist for UC. Let’s start from the beginning, does this family members ESA include the SDP?

    I’m not asking about the Enhanced disability Premium because that’s irrelevant here at the moment. 

    No one knows who they will target first so anything you hear is just people guessing what may happen. 
  • Cat1986
    Cat1986 Online Community Member Posts: 25 Listener
    If by sdp you mean the severe disability premium then no, the family member doesn't get that with there esa
    Just the enhanced which you say is irrelevant. 
  • Meg24
    Meg24 Online Community Member Posts: 390 Trailblazing
    It's also worth noting that many organisations are aware that the DWP has still not produced any details of safeguards or special procedures that ensure that people who may struggle claim may not fall through the cracks, as happened during the migration from IB to ESA. We now know the dire cost of this approach, and many people are on the case and fighting to make sure it doesn't happen again. 

    My hope is that sufficient pressure will be brought to bear on the DWP to force them not to proceed with the sped up timetable until such measures are produced and assured. This may cause enough delay that perhaps the incoming Labour (hopefully) government may apply the brakes on this rushed and frankly dangerous process.

    We can but hope...
  • Cat1986
    Cat1986 Online Community Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Meg24 are you a private landlord or housing association. 
    And why would you loose the right to your medication.
    Fingers crossed that they do put pressure on them and bear down to get them not to proceed with the speed up of the timetable. We can only but hope. 
    But when it comes to government we never know. 
    Unfortunately they do what they want. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    edited May 2024
    Cat1986 said:
    If by sdp you mean the severe disability premium then no, the family member doesn't get that with there esa
    Just the enhanced which you say is irrelevant. 
    Yes that's what I meant, Severe disability Premium. This means that they would be better off by claiming UC and this was the reason they announced the delay until 2028/29 in the first place to save them millions because those that don't have the SDP included in their ESA are better off by claiming UC when in the Support Group.

    There will be no entitlement to TP if you're better off when you migrate across. Let me do a calculation for you, this is based on a single person in the Support Group without the SDP. 

    ESA Support Group amount £138.20/week
    Enhanced disability Premium (known as Disability Income Guarantee on ESA letters) £20.85
    Total weekly amount £159.05 .. fortnightly amount = £318.10. 

    Calculation for ESA as a monthly payment is as follows... £159.05 x 52 = £8,270.60 divided by 12 (for the monty payment) = £689.21/month. Remember there's 4.3 weeks in a month and not 4 weeks. 

    Calculation for UC if they are 25 and over is as follows..

    Standard allowance £393.45 (25 and over)
    LCWRA element £416.19 
    Total monthly amount = £809.64

    This means they will be £120.42/month better off by claiming UC. Please also note that if they are claiming help with the rent then they would need to include the housing element in that figure. 

    This is the biggest mistake so many people make because they look at the EDP and figures for ESA and forget to work out the exact monthly rate so then think they will be worse off. 

    UC isn't perfect by any means but there are some people that are better off compared to legacy benefits. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Meg24 said:
    Cat1986 said:
    I read a comment here and it has me concerned, people that have a enhanced disability premium don't get transitional protection. 
    Is that right, even if migrated across. 
    I am also concerned about losing free prescriptions as I get a fair amount of meds but am not entitled to exemption. 


    What makes you think that you won't be entitled to this when you migrate across? Free NHS treatment still exists for those claiming UC. As you will have LCWRA if you have no earnings or net earnings of less than £935 in your last UC assessment period then you will be entitled to free NHS treatment, which includes free prescriptions. See link. https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/help-with-health-costs/help-with-health-costs-for-people-getting-universal-credit/

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