Managed migration starting September 2024
Comments
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Poppy, I’m sorry if I gave an impression that I expected a response straightaway
everyone on this forum has their own life and though it’s important to think about others, life out side the forum takes priority by several country miles
I’ve taken month long breaks from the forum because sometimes sanity wise you need to take a break from all forms of internet communication
The whole benefit system and uc rollout is so confusing that even reputable webpages are misunderstanding things
honestly does anyone at the dwp 100% understand all of this (stride and sunak under less than 25% I reckon)
prehaps one of the mods can help clarify a few things
Edit:
this is scope’s own write up on disability premiums if anyone’s interested
https://www.scope.org.uk/advice-and-support/disability-premiums/
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Is it one of the turn2us webpage screenshot or one of the ones from the commons library webpage?poppy123456 said:@Faithlong that screenshot that apples85 posted is very misleading and some of the figures you see apply to natural migration when someone claims UC because of a change of circumstances and their ESA or other benefits include the SDP. They do not apply to managed migration.
(Could you repost the misleading screenshot so I can see what you are referring to)
both are pretty reputable websites but I could try reading further sites for a better explanation
honestly at this point I don’t think anyone 100% understands any of this
edit:
from the govs official webpage
https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-disability-universal-credit/severe-disability-premium
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I wouldn't get too bogged down in the details. If you recieve a 'migration notice' and you claim UC within the 3 month period allowed, you will not get less money *at the point of migration. Some people may even get more money, if they are in the support group but don't get SDP.
SDP is an add on premium to ESA that is given to people who live without other adults, who get the daily living PIP and who don't have anyone claiming carer's allowance for them. This extra payment does not exist in UC, so if you were a new claimant of UC today in the same circumstances you would not get any extra money even if you do not have a carer.
Over time, the transistional payment will erode, until eventually you will be on the same amount of money as everyone else in your circumstances. So your UC will be frozen, you won't get the yearly inflation rise and if you have any rent increases you will have to cover those also (Poppy can you confirm this please).
If you have a change of circumstances before you are told to migrate that means you have to make a claim for UC for example by moving to a different local authority, then that is classsed as 'natural migration' which has a whole different set of figures for TP.
None of it is fair...1 -
It's misleading in the way they've worded it because not all the TP figures will apply. It will depend on each individual circumstances. For example, the EDP for those that claim Income Related ESA Support Group (as I explained earlier) without the SDP are better off by claiming UC so even with managed migration there will be no TP.apple85 said:
Is it one of the turn2us webpage screenshot or one of the ones from the commons library webpage?poppy123456 said:@Faithlong that screenshot that apples85 posted is very misleading and some of the figures you see apply to natural migration when someone claims UC because of a change of circumstances and their ESA or other benefits include the SDP. They do not apply to managed migration.
(Could you repost the misleading screenshot so I can see what you are referring to)
both are pretty reputable websites but I could try reading further sites for a better explanation
honestly at this point I don’t think anyone 100% understands any of this
edit:
from the govs official webpage
https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-disability-universal-credit/severe-disability-premium
EDP can also be paid to someone claiming Income Support if they are entitled the disability premium and claim either Enhanced daily living PIP/ADP or high rate care DLA so the EDP in those figures are referring to those.
It's not just as simple as looking at the figures and saying, oh yes, I'll be entitled to this and that. Another example, some people claiming Income Related ESA also claim carers allowance and their ESA includes the carers premium so their will be extra for that too because when I claim UC I will not be entitled to carers element because my claim will include the LCWRA element and both can't be paid to the same person.
I've seen even the most knowledgeable people try to get their heads around the TP figures for those migrating from Tax credits and it's created nothing more than a big headache for so many people. Even advice agencies have been known to refuse to advise with TP. Therefore, yes, you're spot on that no one understands it 100%. For this reason it's best to leave well alone for now at least, eventually more benefits knowledgable people will start to understand it more and will be able to advise better.1 -
Yes, that's correct. If other elements increase or you become entitled to other elements then the TP will decrease. There are some change of circumstances that would also erode it completely, such as living with a new partner.Meg24 said:
Over time, the transistional payment will erode, until eventually you will be on the same amount of money as everyone else in your circumstances. So your UC will be frozen, you won't get the yearly inflation rise and if you have any rent increases you will have to cover those also (Poppy can you confirm this please).1 -
Has anyone seen the new paper reports
Sounds like anyone claiming housing benefit whether with esa or not might get a migration letter from June.
The article says
A three week warning has been issued to everyone who received housing benefit ahead of a message from the department of work and pensions.
Anyone who receives housing benefit will be contacted by the dwp in June about changes effecting their benefits.
Claimants should expect to receive a migration notice next month as part of the major process to shift people off certain benefits and onto universal credit.
People who receive only housing benefit are next on the list for r the move over to universal credit.
The migration notice must be responded to promptly, with the DWP saying people will have three months to claim Universal Credit or risk losing their benefit entitlements.The deadline will be stated on your migration notice letter.
The move may well have an impact on the amount of money those currently on legacy benefits receive, with some finding themselves better off and some finding themselves worse off.
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This has greatly heightened my anxiety, does that mean that the proposed change of date for September 2024 to December 2025 could be therefore out the window if you claim esa with housing benefit.0
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@Cat1986 the moment I seen “newspaper reports” I didn’t really need to read any further. This is the usual stupid articles that newspapers post, like the ones which often say something like “DWP say you could be entitled to x amount of money per month if you have the following conditions “
The best thing to do with those is not to read them and read something else instead.With regards to managed migration I’ve already advised you on that. I also thought you said it was a family member that claims the ESA which doesn’t include the SDP, is that correct?0 -
Yes that is correct, but the reason I got concerned is that it's not just the one paper.0
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You really need to stop reading those articles. I advised you yesterday about Support Group and LCWRA element and I also did a very detailed calculation but you didn't acknowledge that at all.0
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I appreciate you doing the calculation, sorry that I didn't say anything about it earlier.
I apologise sincerely.
Thank you so very much for your help and advice, I truly don't need to stop reading everything.
I let it all get to me way to easily.
I'm just that type of person.0 -
I meant I truly do need to stop reading it all.0
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@Cat1986
i had a quick Google search for the article that’s got you panicked
I presume you are currently on income related esa?
if you read the articles carefully they mention that the group (or subgroup depending how you look at it) next in the uc managed migration rollout is ‘housing benefit only’
if you also claim ir esa this is not concerning you
in the most up to date uc rollout schedule the dwp have (up till now) divided legacy claimants into many smaller subgroups - bcos of this newspaper article’s announcing ‘call outs’ are going to be pretty frequent.
the old 2028/2029 group (legacy claimants who are esa only or esa+housing benefit) have not been officially moved forward (the official rollout schedule webpage still says 2028/29)
These September 2024 - December 2025 dates have not been made official……..they are for now guesstimates
we will probably get more solid details over the summer months
a lot of members on this forum don’t read through newspaper articles (that dramatises and spins headlines) and don’t do further research to double check things (or take a few minutes to step back.
members like poppy are having to repeat themselves an awful amount even on the same thread.
i get the impression that not many on this forum reads the whole way through my posts (in everyone’s defence they are often extremely loooonnnngg winded.) But I spend time doing my ‘research’ and breaking things down to make easier to understand (and post the links to sources so ppl can read &analysis them for themselves)
(though I swear that I’m speaking a foreign language half of the time with the amount of people in everyday life misunderstanding me - is that an autistic trait or something as it’s frustrating as hell?)
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It's not a problem. Though I am still a little confused because you're worried about managed migration for this family member and yet they would be better off by £120 per month if they claimed UC. This a lot of money for anyone, especially in these difficult cost of living times.Cat1986 said:I appreciate you doing the calculation, sorry that I didn't say anything about it earlier.
I apologise sincerely.
Thank you so very much for your help and advice, I truly don't need to stop reading everything.
I let it all get to me way to easily.
I'm just that type of person.0 -
@apple85 I do actually read most of the links you post, even though I don't often respond. It's not often that I don't read links that someone posts. This is one of the ways I got the amount of knowledge I have by reading, more reading and even more reading... did I say reading?
I also noticed that the 2028/29 roll out for those currently claiming Income Related ESA with or without housing benefit hasn't yet changed on the House of Commons website, I noticed that a few days before you posted it.
I'm still in that group that will not believe it until I see something official and I know that annoys you somewhat but it's just the way I am.
As for repeating myself, I'm used to that but yes It has increased a great deal in the last week or so.1 -
@apple85
Hi it is not me directly that gets the esa but a family member
I know alot of these articles can be misleading or scare mungerinf ect and I do need to stop reading them all.
But this one was saying about housing benefit and that they are giving a warning of three weeks to everyone that claims it ahead of a message from the department of work and pensions.
And that anyone who receives housing benefit will be contacted by the dwp in June about changes effecting their benefits.
This has me worried that even if you receive some type of other benefit along side housing benefit that they might get you to change because they are going to so something with how you claim housing benefit.
I may have this totally wrong and said article could just be scare mungering.
@poppy123456 I really do need to stop reading said articles as she says and this is more than likely true “they are usually stupid articles that newspapers post, like the ones which often say something like “DWP say you could be entitled to x amount of money per month if you have the following conditions“
But I just can't completely get over the fear that this is yet again something else that they are going to do / change to catch more peolel out.
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@poppy123456
Hi there just want to respond to your previous message.
I am now less concerned about manage migration, I am now just concerned about this article about them announcing something about housing benefit and that could trigger a move sooner than the supposed change of September 2024 - December 2025. (from the 2028/29)
And I do totally agree with you that I need to stop reading every article I see as its scare mungering, and said family member has said that unfortunately there isn't alot you can do about when they send you a letter but deal with it.
But more time is always nice.
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Poppy - I should of prehaps put in the footnotes of that last post that you would be the last person I’d aim that comment at as if anyone reads all posts beginning till end I know that you do. (And I feel terrible my moment of ‘rattiness’ hit you). And I’m never offended if you don’t reply back….in a way when you don’t I take it as a cue that there’s nothing glaringly wrong with the post
I was more commentating that some posters don’t read responses throughly as they are back asking a rehashed version of the same question only days later
the post was written from a selfish viewpoint, but I do get upset on your behalf poppy when you’ve spent the time answering someone’s questions and days later they are back with a similar question
i know you put in the time and research and I hope you see the same in me (even though we don’t always agree with each other) - being able to gather info/research is a skill not everyone has
but everyone should take the time to read throughly if someone’s taken the time to find an answer for them
i hope that came across okay poppy and much 🫶1 -
@Cat1986
i don’t think you’ve taken on board what either myself or poppy have posted and you’ve seemed to have overloaded
im about to go to bed so won’t respond till tomorrow
but take a step back
does this uc rollout affect you, a family member or both of you?
next what are all the means tested welfare benefit yourself and/or your family member is on?
I’m 99.9% sure this is more straightforward then you think it is and you’ve got yourself in an overwhelmed panic (deer in headlights)
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I have to totally agree with @apple85 here and I do think you're worrying about nothing. I don't understand why you're concerned about that article you read if it's to do with that family member because that family member would be better off finically if they claimed UC. Their UC would include help with the rent too known as housing element so they will not lose out on anything. In fact in some cases housing element can be more generous that housing benefit.Cat1986 said:@poppy123456
Hi there just want to respond to your previous message.
I am now less concerned about manage migration, I am now just concerned about this article about them announcing something about housing benefit and that could trigger a move sooner than the supposed change of September 2024 - December 2025. (from the 2028/29)
And I do totally agree with you that I need to stop reading every article I see as its scare mungering, and said family member has said that unfortunately there isn't alot you can do about when they send you a letter but deal with it.
But more time is always nice.
I do think that you're not fully understanding what I've been saying throughout the whole thread and you're stuck in that zone where so many people just assume that when you claim UC they will instantly be worse off but that's not true for everyone.0
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