ESA claim rejected

youhave13hours

Hi,
I recently tried to claim new style ESA as my employer let me go because of my medical issues. I have sick notes. Got a letter today saying they cannot pay me as I have not paid or been credited with enough national insurance contributions. According to HMRC I have full years dating back to 2005. So I'm confused? Do I appeal? Is there any point? 
Thanks

calcotti

To qualify for new style ESA he need to have a complete NI record for tax years 2020-21 and 2021-21.

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/employment-and-support-allowance-contribution-based

You can still be referred for a Work Capability Assessment and if found to have Limited for Work you will get NI credits.

You could a calculator to check if you could qualify for Universal Credit.

youhave13hours

Yes I have as far as I can tell. I go onto the HMRC app and it says all the years are full going right back to 2004/2003

calcotti

youhave13hours said:

Yes I have as far as I can tell.

I’m not clear what it is you can tell.

youhave13hours said:

..the HMRC app and it says all the years are full going right back to 2004/2003

Which, as per my reply, isn’t relevant. For new style ESA they only look at 2020-21 and 2021-22

calcotti said:

To qualify for new style ESA he need to have a complete NI record for tax years 2020-21 and 2021-21.

As suggested you should check with a calculator to see whether you could qualify for UC. If you have a partner any entitlement would be based on your joint circumstances.

poppy123456

You will need to have class 1 NI contributions in the previous 2 tax years. Unless you were self employed and then it would be class 2. 

youhave13hours

Sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I will try and attach the letter about the ESA and a screenshot from the hmrc app to show what I meant. 
   

bg844

Regardless of what class was paid the HMRC website and app would say that.

poppy123456

I knew what you meant. A full year doesn't mean you have the correct NI contributions. Were you working at all during tax years 2020/21 and 2021/22? Are you claiming child benefit for a child that's 12 or under? if so then you will receive class 3 NI credits towards your state pension only. It doesn't qualify you for any ESA.

calcotti

What are the details in your record for 2020-21 and 2021-22? The summary record doesn’t tell us anything. What were you doing in those years?

Have you checked whether you could be eligible for UC?

youhave13hours

poppy123456 said:

I knew what you meant. A full year doesn't mean you have the correct NI contributions. Were you working at all during tax years 2020/21 and 2021/22? Are you claiming child benefit for a child that's 12 or under? if so then you will receive class 3 NI credits towards your state pension only. It doesn't qualify you for any ESA.

Yes I was working both years, during lockdown we got furlough pay, and went back to work as soon as lockdoen was lifted, and yes I get child benefit for two under 12. 

youhave13hours

So for the year in question 2021-2022 I have national insurance contributions from paid employment and it says I have 52 weeks credits. I don't know if that's what the ESA letter is referring to or something else. 

youhave13hours

calcotti said:

What are the details in your record for 2020-21 and 2021-22? The summary record doesn’t tell us anything. What were you doing in those years?

Have you checked whether you could be eligible for UC?

All I can see is it said I have contributions from paid employment and NI credits 52 weeks. Doesn't say anymore than that.

And yes I am claiming UC. 

calcotti

youhave13hours said.

And yes I am claiming UC. 

If you were to claim ESA it would simply be deducted from the UC anyway do you wouldn’t be any better off claiming ESA (unless the UC is worth less than £117.60/week). Have you reported a health condition that limits your Capability for Work?

Receiving Child Benefit for a child under 12 gets you Class 3 NI credits - they don’t help with ESA.

youhave13hours said:

So for the year in question 2021-2022 I have national insurance contributions from paid employment and it says I have 52 weeks credits. 

The credits are probably the CB. Does it say how much contributions you have from the paid employment. How much were you earning from work.

Did you work for at least 26 weeks and earning a least £123/week in one those the two years?

What does it say about tax year 2020-21?

poppy123456

youhave13hours said:

And yes I am claiming UC. 

Which means claiming New style ESA will not make you financially better off because the ESA will be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. However, you will receive class 1 NI credits from the ESA and it's not means tested so can be useful in the future.

calcotti

poppy123456 said:

Which means claiming New style ESA will not make you financially better off because the ESA will be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. However, you will receive class 1 NI credits from the ESA and it's not means tested so can be useful in the future. 

While receiving UC I don’t think you can get Class 1 credits from ESA if not being paid ESA.

youhave13hours

calcotti said:

youhave13hours said.

And yes I am claiming UC. 

If you were to claim ESA it would simply be deducted from the UC anyway do you wouldn’t be any better off claiming ESA (unless the UC is worth less than £117.60/week). Have you reported a health condition that limits your Capability for Work?

Receiving Child Benefit for a child under 12 gets you Class 3 NI credits - they don’t help with ESA.

youhave13hours said:

So for the year in question 2021-2022 I have national insurance contributions from paid employment and it says I have 52 weeks credits. 

The credits are probably the CB. Does it say how much contributions you have from the paid employment. How much were you earning from work.

Did you work for at least 26 weeks and earning a least £123/week in one those the two years?

What does it say about tax year 2020-21?

Yes I have reported my health condition to my work coach. I understand I would not be any better off financially but my partner said I should apply anyway for the status (?) He did explain it and it made sense. 

My hours have always been up and down,  some week could be under £123 some over but averaged out over the year it was £137 a week for 2021/2022

There was one week 2021/2022 I didn't get any pay but that was due to me being off work because of me having covid.

As for 2020/2021 a lot of that year I was furloughed so it brought my average down to £120 per week over the year. I worked the rest of the time when we were allowed to open up.

youhave13hours

poppy123456 said:

youhave13hours said:

And yes I am claiming UC. 

Which means claiming New style ESA will not make you financially better off because the ESA will be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. However, you will receive class 1 NI credits from the ESA and it's not means tested so can be useful in the future.

Yes think that is partly why I wanted to apply for it. And to help with UC understanding my situation so they won't force me to look for work right now.

calcotti

youhave13hours said:.

As for 2020/2021 a lot of that year I was furloughed so it brought my average down to £120 per week over the year. I worked the rest of the time when we were allowed to open up.

If your earnings were less than £123/week then in each of those weeks there would have been no Class 1 contributions. You still have a full NI record due to the Class 3 credits from CB but this only records for State Pension but not for ESA. That would explain by we you have been refused ESA.

(I do wish HMRC gave a more detailed breakdown on the NI record!)

poppy123456

calcotti said:

poppy123456 said:

Which means claiming New style ESA will not make you financially better off because the ESA will be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. However, you will receive class 1 NI credits from the ESA and it's not means tested so can be useful in the future. 

While receiving UC I don’t think you can get Class 1 credits from ESA if not being paid ESA.

Yes i know that, i was referring to the difference in the credits for both (if they were receiving payments for NsESA) Sorry, i should have made that clear.

youhave13hours

calcotti said:

youhave13hours said:.

As for 2020/2021 a lot of that year I was furloughed so it brought my average down to £120 per week over the year. I worked the rest of the time when we were allowed to open up.

If your earnings were out of £123/week then in each of those weeks there would have been Class 1 contributions. You still have a full NI record due to the Class 3 credits from CB but this only records for State Pension but not for ESA. That would explain by we you have been refused ESA.

(I do wish HMRC gave a more detailed breakdown on the NI record!)

Ok thank you I think this has cleared it up for me. Like I said it wasn't about the money. Just thought it was the next step. Yes a more detailed breakdown would have been helpful! I'm OK with it now just didn't understand it fully

calcotti

Sorry for the typos in my earlier post.

I agree that if you were eligible to ESA there would be merit in getting ESA as well even UC though there would be no financial gain. However it does look likely that you are not entitled to ESA.