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Heads up - new sickness/disability benefit changes may be announced this week

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Comments

  • apple85
    apple85 Community member Posts: 372 Pioneering
    The daily mail comments are actually quite interesting (if you go past the the ones that make you want to curl up in a ball)

    a lot of people are against this is another certain issue isn’t improved on first.

    it’s scary how many people have bought the govs smears on the disabled/ill (as scrougers and faking conditions) as 100% the truth but at the same time mps have been actively using many of the big uk newspapers to print their narrative but I’ve haven’t read many detailed accounts of the other side (only that it’s cruel but not explaining why it is so)

    as I’ve said many times before the disabled community needs to get much more vocal as the gov keeps seeing us as easy targets and right now we are and that won’t change unless the public are made aware of all the facts of being on sickness benefits

    we know that the tories will u turn if public outcry is loud enough (I’m not sure they will with this but prehaps it’s more important to get labour to rethink their own dwp plans as unlike the tories they will have to fight harder and get more right in order to get a 2nd and 3rd term in power (tories being the default uk majority vote))
  • apple85
    apple85 Community member Posts: 372 Pioneering
    Ray212 said:
    That telegraph article is very sobering:

    ” However, despite the costs and repeated pledges to address the situation, there has been speculation that the Government is wary of tackling sensitive issues before the election.
    The delay also means that if Labour wins the election, as polls currently predict, it would have to decide whether to go ahead with changes, which are likely to prove controversial with some of their supporters but popular with the public.”


  • apple85
    apple85 Community member Posts: 372 Pioneering
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/09/05/bold-plan-long-term-sick-back-workforce/

    “ There’s something special about September. Autumn is on its way as the nation shifts back into ‘work mode’.
    Sometimes the benefits of work are easy to take for granted. Yes, employment is about providing financial security, and growing our economy.
    But it also changes lives – giving us life-long friends, a sense of purpose, better physical and mental health. That’s why my mission is to ensure that employment opportunities are open to everyone and that no one is blocked from the advantages work brings.
    This week, I am taking bold action so that people on disability benefits who can work are not unfairly written off, or permanently written out of this country’s strong labour market story. It’s a story that has seen nearly four million more people in employment since 2010. And over the last decade, two million more disabled people in work.
    Although the number of people who are neither in work nor looking for a job – the ‘economically inactive’ – has fallen from its pandemic peak, there remain over 2.5 million people who are inactive because of long-term sickness.

    Proposals will bring system up to date

    We need to do more so that no one who could work is left behind. The consultation I published on Tuesday sets out proposals to bring the disability benefits system up to date to better recognise and reflect some of the changes in the world of work. These changes have opened up more opportunities for disabled people and those with health conditions to start, stay and succeed in the workforce.
    Those getting back into the swing of things this week are returning to workplaces that look and feel very different to how they did just a few years ago. There are now much greater opportunities for flexible and home working and many employers have improved their approach to accessibility and providing reasonable adjustments for staff.

    Many on disability benefits want to work

    Improved understanding around mental health conditions and neurodiversity has helped employers to identify opportunities to adapt job roles and the way disabled people and people with health conditions work. Many people on disability benefits say they want to work – and with modern working practices could manage their condition effectively while working.
    Instead, they are stuck on benefits with no help to prepare for work. The Work Capability Assessment (WCA) descriptors used to assess what work someone could do – and the support they need – were last reviewed over a decade ago. The plans we are consulting on aim to reflect this shift in working practices.
    They include taking account of the fact that people with mobility problems, or who suffer anxiety within the workplace, have better access to employment opportunities from the rise in flexible and home working.
    These proposals come on the back of an extra £2 billion of investment we are making to help disabled people and those with health conditions back into work. This includes radical new employment support programmes, such as Universal Support and the Workwell pilot programme.

    Plans will enable more fundamental reforms

    Our plans will pave the way for our more fundamental reforms to the health and disability benefits system we set out in March in the Health and Disability White Paper, which will see the WCA abolished altogether.
    This will take time to implement, so the steps set out in our consultation are important interim measures we can take more quickly to ensure those on disability benefits who could work are given the support and opportunity to move off benefits and towards the jobs market.
    We are consulting over the next eight weeks to seek the views of disabled people, employers, charities and others about our proposed changes. It is not right or fair that so many people are left without support or the opportunity to reap the rewards of work.
    It’s time to focus on what people can do – not what they can’t. It’s time to share the opportunities of work far more fairly. And it’s time for work to be truly available to all those who can benefit from it. It’s time to get Britain working.”
  • MJ81
    MJ81 Community member Posts: 3 Listener
    Hi everyone, my first post here, sorry it had to be on a negative note.

    I was quite horrified to see this article in the Daily Fail this morning:-


    Now I only JUST got my first PIP award after fighting for over a decade to get it, and I see the Tories already want to take it away?

    My question for the community is, will these Tory plans likely affect my existing award in any way shape or form? Or is it for new claims / re-applications only?

    Id like to think the Torys really are toast next GE, but I personally know enough bigoted Mail readers to make me think its far from a full gone conclusion....

    thanks in advance

  • Ralph
    Ralph Community member Posts: 77 Pioneering
    edited September 2023
    It’s the sick and disabled turn this week. Next week they’ll be back to asylum seekers or some other minority group.
  • apple85
    apple85 Community member Posts: 372 Pioneering
    @MJ81

    this latest thing relates to esa/universal credit only…….not pip

    itvx did report last week that sunak wanted to announce that pip was going to go means tested but that was pulled at the last minute so that could still pop up down the line
  • MJ81
    MJ81 Community member Posts: 3 Listener
    apple85 said:
    @MJ81

    this latest thing relates to esa/universal credit only…….not pip

    itvx did report last week that sunak wanted to announce that pip was going to go means tested but that was pulled at the last minute so that could still pop up down the line

    Thanks so much for your reply -  I dont suppose you have a reference I can see to put my mind at ease?

    thankyou
  • johnnyy85
    johnnyy85 Community member Posts: 32 Connected
    Hi I’m on esa support group contribution based will it affect me at all ? 
  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    The big concern I would have with this is how it works in practice. For example I am on LCWRA and PIP (both elements), but you could hypothetically say in practice I could work providing you could find me a job I work exclusively from home and that would accept I would have a lot of time off sick/be part-time. I imagine in theory this applies to a lot of people. The issue is in practice, it's one thing saying you could hypothetically do a job that fits to such needs, but what employer is actually going to employ such a person. Employers are hardly going to rush to employ someone who needs to work exclusively from home and would require a lot of time off at short notice.

    The fear here would be would be that this would put a lot of people in a similar boat in a position where the system would say they can work, and thus cut their benefits by cutting LCWRA to LCW, but in practice good luck finding a job. If this literally leads to cutting benefits of people who in reality have very limited capability for work it's a complete joke. Especially as I would have no faith that work coaches or employers would have an understanding of many health conditions.

    The bit I don't understand is what does "The plans will attempt to cut the 2.4 million people who receive sickness benefits but are given no support to get them back into work because of their health." actually mean. What support is it referring to? Surely if you are on sickness benefits you are receiving support, or is it meaning something else. If it's referring to no support in terms of getting back to work, the problem is the system does not encourage it currently. Eg. I would want pretty sure reassurances my LCWRA won't be cut if I start looking for a job suitable to my needs, and there would surely need to be an incentive for employers to actually employ such people, because otherwise it's just not going to work.

    I also have no idea how putting work coaches in charge of this works in practice. Work coaches are not health professionals, without some serious training, they are not remotely equipped to start judging what work you could do from my experience. I literally had to get a decision from the head of my local job centre to say my appointments could not be in person, because several work coaches simply couldn't understand this, and kept trying to insist I come in for face-to-face appointments as their system works best face-to-face they said, no consideration of my health condition whatsoever, and you're saying these people are now going to start influencing what work you're able to do?
  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    It's actually quite amazing how you have government figures like Hunt saying they want to help people not given support to get back into work with no risk to their benefits. Yet it literally says what they are trying to do in real terms is recategorise people from LCWRA to LCW which is a cut in benefits.

    Therein is the problem. Why on earth would anyone in this group want to work with the system to try to get a job, when the system is clearly going to be stacked against them if they do. It reminds me in my appeal of the DWP trying to use the fact I can drive as proof I was overstating my condition as if I was bad as I said I was I would not have the cognitive ability to drive, which in reality was completely irrelevant to my case and seen as such at tribunal.

    If you give these people any rope at all, they will try to hang you, so who is going to want to work with them believing they're acting in good faith?
  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    MJ81 said:
    Hi everyone, my first post here, sorry it had to be on a negative note.

    I was quite horrified to see this article in the Daily Fail this morning:-


    Now I only JUST got my first PIP award after fighting for over a decade to get it, and I see the Tories already want to take it away?

    My question for the community is, will these Tory plans likely affect my existing award in any way shape or form? Or is it for new claims / re-applications only?

    Id like to think the Torys really are toast next GE, but I personally know enough bigoted Mail readers to make me think its far from a full gone conclusion....

    thanks in advance

    It will only affect new applications and reassessments for sure, as it would require way too many resources to go back reassess everyone. They're already way behind in reassessments to begin with.

    I imagine being on PIP is a good thing, there's no mention of it here, but it was mentioned previously that they wanted to move the system to one assessment, the PIP assessment.

    There's no way this fully gets implemented before the next GE, and the Tories are surely going to lose. Unfortunately Labour, seem to be falling for the same right wing rubbish, so there's no guarantee they will put a stop to it, but you do probably have more chance with them. The best chance is Labour are more likely to go down the road of believing that cutting NHS wait times will cut the number of people claiming benefits for long term sickness, so just purely going after the people on benefits is likely to be less of a priority for them.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,329 Disability Gamechanger
    The most up to date info I have read is that all of the proposed changes will not become law until 2025, that's after the general election.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • johnnyy85
    johnnyy85 Community member Posts: 32 Connected
    do you think labour will be in favour of this ?
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,329 Disability Gamechanger
    johnnyy85 said:
    do you think labour will be in favour of this ?
    It's quite possible that it won't be on their list of things to change as thats going to be a very long list already.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • Becky93
    Becky93 Community member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    Labour as ever will probably take some vague position neither supporting or being against it. So your best hope is they get elected and it's quietly dropped as priorities are elsewhere.
  • poorsoul
    poorsoul Community member Posts: 50 Courageous
    Yet more misery and worry for people already struggling with anxiety and depression to cope with our only hope is torys lose the election and this does not happen :'(
  • apple85
    apple85 Community member Posts: 372 Pioneering
    Note: I’m well aware that many of you may think I’m looney tunes for saying the following and I may be upsetting some people (apologies to the mods in advance) - I’ll admit off the bat that I’m ocd and a very blunt speaker and I’m just getting that feeling of that Austin powers scene of the guard & the roller in slow motion if you know what I mean 


    Question - if the 2.5mil figure (of people on esa or the relevant uc group) given by the tories is indeed accurate and you presume each one of those people have at least one other person supporting them and understanding the last 10+ years of Tory misundering of the majority who have to be on sickness benefits - so let’s say around 5million

    the uk has a population of about 68mil, about 50mil of those are on the election register but only 50-75% of those will actually vote (so 25-38mil)

    if all that 50mil did indeed vote and we get 100% turnout, that 5million estimate I mentioned earlier would equal 10% of the vote and would be enough to swing a good few seats

    But I feel like tearing my hair out because the sick/disabled community would be a sizeable minority group if we organised and worked together?

    now any scope members please correct me if I’m wrong and the majority of you are so angry/scared of this dwp that you’re asking yourself how this could be fought and some of you may of already started (believe me I want to be wrong on this one)

    But people are willing to vent and complain that nothing will ever change but then kind of accept their fate or hope some sort of rescue is on its way - but are unwilling or haven’t figured out that in ‘numbers’ we may have the power to stop and change things

    This Tory gov keeps ‘picking’ on the disabled because we are easy targets and in a way ‘weaker’ (I say weaker but those reading this may be psychological batter and bruised from 13 years of the tories but we are still here) but unlike other groups that have forced many gov u-turn we barely throw a gas hob knob at them, let alone the kitchen sink. Some of the smartest people in the uk come under the sick/disabled group so surely there’s no shortage of ideas

    theres a saying that some people only fight when they have nothing left to lose

    lots of us may lose almost everything if the dwp push forward with these reforms and prehaps others are different but I don’t think I’ll have the energy or anger to fight if this goes through

    so for me these reforms are a crossroad for many of us and at the risk of sounding all game of thrones it’s a choice between fight or flight whilst there’s still the opportunity 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,329 Disability Gamechanger
    Around 68% turnout at GE so around 31 million people vote whilst 20 million simply cant be bothered, I have thought for many years that we get the govt. we deserve and its too late after an election to complain.
    My simple advice would be to register as soon as you can for a postal vote.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • apple85
    apple85 Community member Posts: 372 Pioneering
    woodbine said:
    Around 68% turnout at GE so around 31 million people vote whilst 20 million simply cant be bothered, I have thought for many years that we get the govt. we deserve and its too late after an election to complain.
    My simple advice would be to register as soon as you can for a postal vote.
    If your stats are correct (which I imagine they are) then are you implying that significant numbers are either not signed up/registered to vote or in the 20mil/32% who can’t be bothered? (I’m genuinely curious as I considered this but prehaps not to the extent that you are suggesting)

    on the commons website it states that in 2021/2022 16mil people (25%) were reported to have a disabilities (though I’m interested on the common definition is of a disability as the dwp’s definition is probably significantly lower - true number is probably inbetween, and I apologise for my cattiness) - and as of feb 2023 6.8mil people were on some type of disability benefit (I know that some of those are just playing the system but the majority are on fair and square - but let’s round it down to 5mil rightly on a disability benefit, add at least half a mil more in disabled people whom the dwp wrongly rejected an award and however many has fought on a disabled family member or friends behalf)

    I think we can both agree it’s a sizeable number and a significant majority of that 51mil you mention

    so if the majority of disabled don’t vote and can’t be bothered then that’s a huge problem as every vote counts 

    if I was a labour or even Lib Dem campaign manager I’d be suggest to the higher ups to have a look at all manifesto policies that could effect the disabled and be planning an campaign to get more disabled people registered and out to vote and also help with the barriers of voting (those without an valid id is probably higher with the disabled than the average - where I used to live parties used to call round voters that were elderly on election day and give them lifts to the booths if they thought it would lead to a potential extra vote)

    Lets be honest - the Tories obviously don’t rate the disabled vote that highly - but neither labour and the Lib Dem’s can’t really afford to share that mentality (at least they wouldn’t if they were smart)


  • happyfella
    happyfella Community member Posts: 478 Pioneering
    I am shocked and disgusted that the Government want to send one million people back to work to save money. Doing this is going to risk people's mental health.

    They are going on about saving money, then how about stop paying £6million a day on migrants who are mostly men coming to this country to abuse our benefit system.

    I know of lots of people who pay into the system who struggle with their mortgages and others who are forced to live with their parents due to the cost of living crisis.

    But, the government are ok to house migrants in top hotels while people who pay into the system struggle.

    I understand that some migrants need help, but i would say 90% are abusing the system. We have become an easy touch in this country. We seem to be looking after others before we look after ourselves.

    That is why so many migrants are coming to the UK, because we are an easy touch. France is a safe country but because they don't give them money and houses, they want to come to the UK.

    Picking on those who are sick and disabled is shocking, but no one is brave enough including disability organisations and newspapers to say well send the migrants back and save £6million a day and put that money into our schools, NHS, and help pensioners who are struggling.
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