Heads up - new sickness/disability benefit changes may be announced this week

Ralph

It’s the sick and disabled turn this week. Next week they’ll be back to asylum seekers or some other minority group.

apple85

@MJ81

this latest thing relates to esa/universal credit only…….not pip

itvx did report last week that sunak wanted to announce that pip was going to go means tested but that was pulled at the last minute so that could still pop up down the line

MJ81

apple85 said:

@MJ81

this latest thing relates to esa/universal credit only…….not pip

itvx did report last week that sunak wanted to announce that pip was going to go means tested but that was pulled at the last minute so that could still pop up down the line

Thanks so much for your reply -  I dont suppose you have a reference I can see to put my mind at ease?

thankyou

johnnyy85

Hi I’m on esa support group contribution based will it affect me at all ? 

Becky93

The big concern I would have with this is how it works in practice. For example I am on LCWRA and PIP (both elements), but you could hypothetically say in practice I could work providing you could find me a job I work exclusively from home and that would accept I would have a lot of time off sick/be part-time. I imagine in theory this applies to a lot of people. The issue is in practice, it's one thing saying you could hypothetically do a job that fits to such needs, but what employer is actually going to employ such a person. Employers are hardly going to rush to employ someone who needs to work exclusively from home and would require a lot of time off at short notice.

The fear here would be would be that this would put a lot of people in a similar boat in a position where the system would say they can work, and thus cut their benefits by cutting LCWRA to LCW, but in practice good luck finding a job. If this literally leads to cutting benefits of people who in reality have very limited capability for work it's a complete joke. Especially as I would have no faith that work coaches or employers would have an understanding of many health conditions.

The bit I don't understand is what does "The plans will attempt to cut the 2.4 million people who receive sickness benefits but are given no support to get them back into work because of their health." actually mean. What support is it referring to? Surely if you are on sickness benefits you are receiving support, or is it meaning something else. If it's referring to no support in terms of getting back to work, the problem is the system does not encourage it currently. Eg. I would want pretty sure reassurances my LCWRA won't be cut if I start looking for a job suitable to my needs, and there would surely need to be an incentive for employers to actually employ such people, because otherwise it's just not going to work.

I also have no idea how putting work coaches in charge of this works in practice. Work coaches are not health professionals, without some serious training, they are not remotely equipped to start judging what work you could do from my experience. I literally had to get a decision from the head of my local job centre to say my appointments could not be in person, because several work coaches simply couldn't understand this, and kept trying to insist I come in for face-to-face appointments as their system works best face-to-face they said, no consideration of my health condition whatsoever, and you're saying these people are now going to start influencing what work you're able to do?

Becky93

It's actually quite amazing how you have government figures like Hunt saying they want to help people not given support to get back into work with no risk to their benefits. Yet it literally says what they are trying to do in real terms is recategorise people from LCWRA to LCW which is a cut in benefits.

Therein is the problem. Why on earth would anyone in this group want to work with the system to try to get a job, when the system is clearly going to be stacked against them if they do. It reminds me in my appeal of the DWP trying to use the fact I can drive as proof I was overstating my condition as if I was bad as I said I was I would not have the cognitive ability to drive, which in reality was completely irrelevant to my case and seen as such at tribunal.

If you give these people any rope at all, they will try to hang you, so who is going to want to work with them believing they're acting in good faith?

Becky93

MJ81 said:

Hi everyone, my first post here, sorry it had to be on a negative note.

I was quite horrified to see this article in the Daily Fail this morning:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12484217/One-million-people-sickness-benefits-forced-jobs.html

Now I only JUST got my first PIP award after fighting for over a decade to get it, and I see the Tories already want to take it away?

My question for the community is, will these Tory plans likely affect my existing award in any way shape or form? Or is it for new claims / re-applications only?

Id like to think the Torys really are toast next GE, but I personally know enough bigoted Mail readers to make me think its far from a full gone conclusion....

thanks in advance

It will only affect new applications and reassessments for sure, as it would require way too many resources to go back reassess everyone. They're already way behind in reassessments to begin with.

I imagine being on PIP is a good thing, there's no mention of it here, but it was mentioned previously that they wanted to move the system to one assessment, the PIP assessment.

There's no way this fully gets implemented before the next GE, and the Tories are surely going to lose. Unfortunately Labour, seem to be falling for the same right wing rubbish, so there's no guarantee they will put a stop to it, but you do probably have more chance with them. The best chance is Labour are more likely to go down the road of believing that cutting NHS wait times will cut the number of people claiming benefits for long term sickness, so just purely going after the people on benefits is likely to be less of a priority for them.

johnnyy85

do you think labour will be in favour of this ?

Becky93

Labour as ever will probably take some vague position neither supporting or being against it. So your best hope is they get elected and it's quietly dropped as priorities are elsewhere.

poorsoul

Yet more misery and worry for people already struggling with anxiety and depression to cope with our only hope is torys lose the election and this does not happen

apple85

Note: I’m well aware that many of you may think I’m looney tunes for saying the following and I may be upsetting some people (apologies to the mods in advance) - I’ll admit off the bat that I’m ocd and a very blunt speaker and I’m just getting that feeling of that Austin powers scene of the guard & the roller in slow motion if you know what I mean 

Question - if the 2.5mil figure (of people on esa or the relevant uc group) given by the tories is indeed accurate and you presume each one of those people have at least one other person supporting them and understanding the last 10+ years of Tory misundering of the majority who have to be on sickness benefits - so let’s say around 5million

the uk has a population of about 68mil, about 50mil of those are on the election register but only 50-75% of those will actually vote (so 25-38mil)

if all that 50mil did indeed vote and we get 100% turnout, that 5million estimate I mentioned earlier would equal 10% of the vote and would be enough to swing a good few seats

But I feel like tearing my hair out because the sick/disabled community would be a sizeable minority group if we organised and worked together?

now any scope members please correct me if I’m wrong and the majority of you are so angry/scared of this dwp that you’re asking yourself how this could be fought and some of you may of already started (believe me I want to be wrong on this one)

But people are willing to vent and complain that nothing will ever change but then kind of accept their fate or hope some sort of rescue is on its way - but are unwilling or haven’t figured out that in ‘numbers’ we may have the power to stop and change things

This Tory gov keeps ‘picking’ on the disabled because we are easy targets and in a way ‘weaker’ (I say weaker but those reading this may be psychological batter and bruised from 13 years of the tories but we are still here) but unlike other groups that have forced many gov u-turn we barely throw a gas hob knob at them, let alone the kitchen sink. Some of the smartest people in the uk come under the sick/disabled group so surely there’s no shortage of ideas

theres a saying that some people only fight when they have nothing left to lose

lots of us may lose almost everything if the dwp push forward with these reforms and prehaps others are different but I don’t think I’ll have the energy or anger to fight if this goes through

so for me these reforms are a crossroad for many of us and at the risk of sounding all game of thrones it’s a choice between fight or flight whilst there’s still the opportunity 

apple85

woodbine said:

Around 68% turnout at GE so around 31 million people vote whilst 20 million simply cant be bothered, I have thought for many years that we get the govt. we deserve and its too late after an election to complain.
My simple advice would be to register as soon as you can for a postal vote.

If your stats are correct (which I imagine they are) then are you implying that significant numbers are either not signed up/registered to vote or in the 20mil/32% who can’t be bothered? (I’m genuinely curious as I considered this but prehaps not to the extent that you are suggesting)

on the commons website it states that in 2021/2022 16mil people (25%) were reported to have a disabilities (though I’m interested on the common definition is of a disability as the dwp’s definition is probably significantly lower - true number is probably inbetween, and I apologise for my cattiness) - and as of feb 2023 6.8mil people were on some type of disability benefit (I know that some of those are just playing the system but the majority are on fair and square - but let’s round it down to 5mil rightly on a disability benefit, add at least half a mil more in disabled people whom the dwp wrongly rejected an award and however many has fought on a disabled family member or friends behalf)

I think we can both agree it’s a sizeable number and a significant majority of that 51mil you mention

so if the majority of disabled don’t vote and can’t be bothered then that’s a huge problem as every vote counts 

if I was a labour or even Lib Dem campaign manager I’d be suggest to the higher ups to have a look at all manifesto policies that could effect the disabled and be planning an campaign to get more disabled people registered and out to vote and also help with the barriers of voting (those without an valid id is probably higher with the disabled than the average - where I used to live parties used to call round voters that were elderly on election day and give them lifts to the booths if they thought it would lead to a potential extra vote)

Lets be honest - the Tories obviously don’t rate the disabled vote that highly - but neither labour and the Lib Dem’s can’t really afford to share that mentality (at least they wouldn’t if they were smart)

happyfella

I am shocked and disgusted that the Government want to send one million people back to work to save money. Doing this is going to risk people's mental health.

They are going on about saving money, then how about stop paying £6million a day on migrants who are mostly men coming to this country to abuse our benefit system.

I know of lots of people who pay into the system who struggle with their mortgages and others who are forced to live with their parents due to the cost of living crisis.

But, the government are ok to house migrants in top hotels while people who pay into the system struggle.

I understand that some migrants need help, but i would say 90% are abusing the system. We have become an easy touch in this country. We seem to be looking after others before we look after ourselves.

That is why so many migrants are coming to the UK, because we are an easy touch. France is a safe country but because they don't give them money and houses, they want to come to the UK.

Picking on those who are sick and disabled is shocking, but no one is brave enough including disability organisations and newspapers to say well send the migrants back and save £6million a day and put that money into our schools, NHS, and help pensioners who are struggling.

Hannah_Alumni

I just wanted to pop a comment on here as I know many people are worried and anxious. As members have said, these changes will come in after the next general election in 2025. Who knows what would happen by then? 

I agree with so many people's comments and points on this topic. I hope it doesn't come to anything. The government have been known to make a U-turn or 12...

I always encourage everyone to use their voice. Remember you can always reach out to your Local MP. 

And please remember, the community is here if you need support  

poppy123456

There's another thread regarding this here. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/109654/heads-up-new-sickness-disability-benefit-changes-may-be-announced-this-week#latest @Hannah_Scope maybe it's worth joining both together so members don't get confused between the 2 threads? Thank you. 

MJ81

Becky93 said:

MJ81 said:

Hi everyone, my first post here, sorry it had to be on a negative note.

I was quite horrified to see this article in the Daily Fail this morning:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12484217/One-million-people-sickness-benefits-forced-jobs.html

Now I only JUST got my first PIP award after fighting for over a decade to get it, and I see the Tories already want to take it away?

My question for the community is, will these Tory plans likely affect my existing award in any way shape or form? Or is it for new claims / re-applications only?

Id like to think the Torys really are toast next GE, but I personally know enough bigoted Mail readers to make me think its far from a full gone conclusion....

thanks in advance

It will only affect new applications and reassessments for sure, as it would require way too many resources to go back reassess everyone. They're already way behind in reassessments to begin with.

I imagine being on PIP is a good thing, there's no mention of it here, but it was mentioned previously that they wanted to move the system to one assessment, the PIP assessment.

There's no way this fully gets implemented before the next GE, and the Tories are surely going to lose. Unfortunately Labour, seem to be falling for the same right wing rubbish, so there's no guarantee they will put a stop to it, but you do probably have more chance with them. The best chance is Labour are more likely to go down the road of believing that cutting NHS wait times will cut the number of people claiming benefits for long term sickness, so just purely going after the people on benefits is likely to be less of a priority for them.

Hi Becky, thankyou for your post - it was very informative indeed! Having only JUST received my PIP award after all these years, it does at least bring me some comfort that I wouldnt have to deal with any Tory shenanigans at least untill the next renewal date comes around.

That said I do really feel for those that rely on ESA, I will be honest in that I didnt even know it was a thing untill this week!! In fact I didnt know half of what is available...

Hannah_Alumni

Thanks for tagging me Poppy  

I can merge your comment's into the other thread if you'd like @happyfella? Many people having a discussion about the news on benefits this week. 

happyfella

please if you can

apple85

Hannah_Scope said:

I just wanted to pop a comment on here as I know many people are worried and anxious. As members have said, these changes will come in after the next general election in 2025. Who knows what would happen by then? 

I agree with so many people's comments and points on this topic. I hope it doesn't come to anything. The government have been known to make a U-turn or 12...

I always encourage everyone to use their voice. Remember you can always reach out to your Local MP. 

And please remember, the community is here if you need support  

I do agree with you Hannah

But this attitude from the disabled community of thinking it’s a while off, or it will probably be u turned or another party may be in charge is sloppy thinking (think the hares logic in ‘the tortoise and the hare’ fable)

For a start the last and current w&p ministers have come across as Tory clones so that’s a safety net (plus don’t rule out the tories out of the election yet)

second - yes we have experienced several very quick u turns over the past few years but that is an unreliable safety net for the following:

> when the tories have really wanted to get something done they’ll find a way to do it quickly (just look at the environmental pledge break announced by gove/Coffey less than 2 weeks back - that’s going through it’s 1st reading in Parliament right now). Also the scrapping of wca was only announced in March 2023. Stride admitted himself he wanted to fast forward things this tuesday. If these reforms are popular with Tory mps and members can you really rule out another fast forward when the November budget happens

> Sunak is not the same animal as Boris - Boris wanted to be loved by everyone including the public which is partly why there was so many u-turns so quickly under him. Sunak thinks he’s brilliant even though most of the public have be vocal in either their dislike or indifference of him (and only 250 ppl wanted his - even truss was more popular which says it all). Basically he’s much harder to get a u turn out of (not impossible but public outcry would have to be pretty significant (I think his only u turns have come from pressure from party mps but I could be wrong

> the election is only 16 months away - that’s not very long to begin and that’s kind of the mentality of starting your summer holidays from school and thinking you don’t have to do your homework day 1, but before you know it’s the final week and you still haven’t started on it (we’ve all done that at least once)
the best case scenario is the 2025 earliest is accurate and these wca reforms get bulked out and add to their election manifesto (as the telegraph said these reforms could be very popular with a sizeable chunk of the public who don’t have all the background info/are educated in the subject) which isn’t pleasant all by itself.
But we know that in their final year before election (unless they totally throw in towel) sunak needs to give his mps and the public red meat (aka splash the cash) and he’ll need to balance the books in doing so and taking away from benefit claimants (stereotypical scroungers) is probably public preference 


because of that I’m 50/50 on if things will be left till post election or things getting sped up


Honestly if I was a gambler I’d put money on a few weeks after the reform consultation ends in late October at the November budget Hunt announces they are going forward with worst case scenario and they aim to push through all 3 readings and put it in law in time for the next financial year starting April 2024 (it would be a tight turnaround of 3 months but tories still have a large majority and I can’t honestly see the lords slowing things down so it’s a real possibility). If the start of the financial year isn’t a factor that further increases the possibility of any dwp reforms being moved up the calendar 

what I am certain of is u turns are more likely to happen early (soon after an announcement) when any possible public outrage is at its highest and it hasn’t been elapsed by another story.
so if the disabled do want the gov either to rethink or bin these reforms that next 8 weeks is the best opportunity to flip things


so on that note Hannah is 100% right in saying we’ve all got to use our voice - all I’m saying is the best opportunity for success or even just slowing the reform down to buy more time - and for that to happen as many of the disabled community need to be vocal and need to communicate (and in some cases educate) as many people as possible
in an ideal world we need enough public backlash about these dwp reforms to knock everything else off the front pages and top stories several days - that is how u turns happen and policies change (and on an unrelated note in recent times how we get rid of dodgy ministers and mps!)

judie

The government are going to have blood on their hands over this, not just after it's implemented but in the lead up to it. So many scared and hopeless feeling people. I'd like to say it's unbelievable that the politicians just don't care but we all know the truth