Welfare benefits news, possible changes & constructive ‘discussion - an ongoing thread
Comments
-
To add:
I know many on here are worried that labour policy on welfare and disability is very similar to the tories, and that none of us are that encouraged by the latest shadow w&p minister liz Kendall at this moment in time (and starmer doesn’t rank disability as one of his priorities as far as I know)
However there are the following things that demonstrate labour may be a better choice for the disabled over the tories:
1) Vicky Foxcroft (the current shadow disabilities minister) is a massive improvement over the current ‘slime’ of a disabilities minister Tom Pursglove (sorry about the name calling, but the guy is no friend to the disabled imo)
2) I don’t recall seeing an panel title at the Tory conference last week anything like this one (the language is very different)
Time will tell, but hopefully we’ll know more about possible labour policy this week0 -
So I’ve now had a chance to process the content that came out of the labour conference (direct quotes being thin on the ground) and what it could mean for the sick & disabled going forward.
As I said, write ups are limited so what labour plan do in terms of welfare benefits is still very much unknown
Below are the direct quotes from liz Kendall(probably out of order) that I collected from various online newspapers:
From inews:Everyone who is able to work should do so, Labour’s shadow Work and Pensions Secretary will say on Monday as she signals an overhaul of benefits if the party gets into power.Liz Kendall will use her party conference speech to argue that new job opportunities provided by Labour must be “matched by the responsibility to take them up”, in a bid to counter the Conservatives’ claim they are the best party to get unemployed people back in work.The shadow minister, who was given her brief by Sir Keir Starmer in last month’s reshuffle, is said by allies to have been shocked at the number of people who could return to work but are currently on benefits.Labour is promising better mental health treatment, an expansion of childcare for working parents, targeted help for the over-50s and more skills training for young people as part of its plans to push up the employment rate.While official unemployment has been near a 50-year low under the Conservatives, the number of people on long-term sickness benefit has increased to record highs.Ms Kendall will say in Monday’s speech – her first since joining the Shadow Cabinet – that her top priority is ensuring everyone who could have a job does rather than languishing on benefits, “because we believe the benefits of a job go beyond the payslip, and in the dignity and self-respect good work brings”.Listing a string of policies to help people back into the workforce, she will say: “This is our contract with the British people. Real opportunities matched by the responsibility to take them up. Because that’s what fairness is all about.”She will also seek to position Labour as the true defenders of freedom, saying: “Last week saw an endless parade of Tories claim they are the party of freedom. But nothing could be further from the truth.“The Tories have shut down opportunities for so many people. That’s what poverty and insecurity does. Families working all hours – but struggling to pay their bills; mums forced to give up work – because they can’t get the childcare they need; and a country where there are more foodbanks than police stations.”A Labour government would ensure “everyone who can work, does”, the shadow work and pensions secretary has said.
From the telegraph:Labour will ensure that anyone who can work does work, the shadow work and pensions secretary has said, as she tried to convince voters that the party will tackle the spiralling welfare bill.In her first major speech since being appointed to the role, Liz Kendall promised to tackle the problem of “worklessness” should her party gain power, in a country where 5.3 million people are being paid out-of-work benefits, despite there being nearly a million job vacancies.Labour has long been characterised as the party of handouts, but Ms Kendall said that the emphasis would be on getting people back into work rather than increasing their benefits, as she spoke at the Labour Party Conference.She said: “Our top priority will be ensuring everyone who can work, does.“Because we believe the benefits of work go beyond a payslip – and in the dignity and self-respect good work brings.
“So we will tear down the barriers to success. We’ll tackle the root causes of worklessness.”Ms Kendall said that “poverty is soaring and the cost to the taxpayer is spiralling too”, adding that more than two million people signed off with sickness or disability want to work.The number of economically inactive people of working age ballooned during the Covid pandemic, and has not recovered, partly because of the number of people who became mentally ill during lockdowns.State benefits, including pensions, cost the average taxpayer £2,000 a year, as the benefits bill soared from £168 billion in 2017-18 to £279 billion for 2023-24.Universal Credit takes up £60 billion of that total, with £40 billion for disability and carer benefits.Ms Kendall said that by recruiting thousands more mental health staff and overhauling skills, Labour would get people back to work.She also pledged to reform Universal Credit “to protect people when they need it and to genuinely make work pay”, but did not provide any further details.
From the Shropshire star:Liz Kendall used her key note speech at the party conference in Liverpool to set out how Labour would fix economic inactivity in the UK.She told delegates “real opportunities” will be matched by “the responsibility to take them up”, suggesting a Labour government could change the welfare system.Last week, Chancellor Jeremy Hunt reiterated the Government’s commitment to make benefits sanctions harsher.Ms Kendall said “Britain isn’t working”, with more than two million people shut out of the workplace because of sickness or disability but wanting to work.
She added: “Under Labour, this will change. Our top priority will be ensuring everyone who can work, does. Because we believe the benefits of work go beyond a payslip – and in the dignity and self-respect good work brings.”Ms Kendall said Labour would tackle the root causes of worklessness by recruiting thousands more mental health staff, overhauling skill and transforming employment support.Ms Kendall added: “Our new deal for working people will cut poverty, increase wages and improve workers’ rights. And we’ll make sweeping changes to job centres so they don’t just help people get work but get on in their work.“This is our contract with the British people – real opportunities matched by the responsibility to take them up.”Insisting “our ambition is undiminished”, she added: “We will reform universal credit to protect people when they need it and to genuinely make work pay. We’ll champion equality for disabled people.“And we will deliver a bold, new, cross-government, child poverty strategy and ensure decent state and second pensions for all.”Ms Kendall, who unsuccessfully ran for the leadership in 2015 against Jeremy Corbyn and is considered to be on the right of the party, was promoted to shadow work and pensions secretary in Sir Keir Starmer’s latest reshuffle after impressing in her former social care brief.From the mirror:
The Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary insisted Labour would ensure "everyone who can work, does" - but also hit out at the Tories being the party of "tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for the poor".She also said the cost of the Tories' 13-years in power were being experienced across the country, saying: "Parents working 12-hour shifts in shops and cafes - but struggling to pay basic bills. Mums forced to give up work - because they cannot afford childcare. "A country where there are now more foodbanks than police stations. This must end."
At first read it looks like Liz Kendall is mimicking what the likes of stride, hunt and sunak said at the Tory conference last week - however if you read carefully there are very small signs that labour aren’t willing to go as extreme as the proposed Tory welfare reforms - it’s not a lot to hang your hope hook on but even an 1% improvement on what the tories may end up doing is something!
(I’ll continue my thoughts in the next post)
0 -
The other difference I noticed was that labour had a number of fringe events covering disability (check out the shadow disability minister Vicky Foxcroft Twitter for a little more info (when compared to the ‘language’ the tories used at their own conference, it was almost like the tories didn’t want to admit there was such a thing as ‘disability’ and a good bundle of us are just ‘shirkers’ - labour in comparison seem to be thinking a bit more constructively in comparison).From the little snipits that I’ve read from people who actually attended the labour conference it sounded like labour were more open to listen & work with the disabled and had a better ‘understanding’ (nowhere close to what we deserve in terms of politicians understanding the needs and limitations of the disabled but an improvement on the current Tory ministers.
I also have some hope that labour will actually fight for the nhs survival (when compared to the conservatives) and that will benefit us all
theres a lot I want to say about why everyone here has reason to vote in the upcoming general election (but to much to write right now) but to conclude even if you no longer have faith in politics or any political party, have faith that it is hugely unlikely that labour will make things worse for the disabled in the same way we are fearing the tories may do via their potential welfare reforms
the next big date in the diary is the chancellor’s autumn statement on the 22nd November. I personally (my sole opinion only) 95% certain that Hunt will either formally announce or give further details on the possible welfare reforms as well as the possible earliest reform launch date which I think will be one of the following:
> the 2025 (or onwards date) that stride mentioned the beginning of September - this would be ‘sensible’ if they plan to do things somewhat properly> April 2024 (start of the next tax year) - the next election will most likely be either oct23 or jan24, the tories will likely want to get some ‘successful’ policies under their belt in the meantime and welfare reforms is probably the lowest fruit they currently have so it wouldn’t shock me if they fast track these plans to provide Tory mps with some red meat…………..if correct protocol is followed then 2025 should be the earliest common sense wise but these tories have a history of rushing things through before being up to spec and that concerns me
> on the date of the autumn statement - I truly believe that the tories would have lost all sanity and iq points (and drunk on power) if they try to rush things to this extreme (however if you look at what’s happening in Italy with their far right pm nothing can be 100% ruled out) - I only think there’s a 99.9% of this being a possibility but I’m always someone who prepares for the worst case scenario
it’s not my intent to worry anyone and I am still hopeful that we can get to the election before any benefit reform comes into play (and I will be able to confirm so at the end of November 2023 on this thread) but I also think we should be prepared for all possible outcomes on this but at the same time there almost certainly another 6 weeks before we’ll know more on the welfare reforms so till then my advice is to take a deep breath, live your life in the meantime and know that even if the worst happens because of charities and communities like this forum, you are not alone in this1 -
Honestly those quotes from the shadow disability minister may seem like nothing for many of the ppl reading this thread, that this could be another politician lying but I’m a glass half empty person and even I think this may be a mini spark of hope - that perhaps labour won’t be as tough on the disabled as the tories sure clearly planning to be.
I’ve been thinking about it for a while and perhaps we are expecting too much from political parties at this moment in time - let me explain:
I believe it is this chart that have got both the tories and labour in a tiz and why there may be this big push to get the disabled working
Now the tories want to paint this as disability being faked or not existing and that we are all just a bunch of shirkers…….and that sunak’s maths must be right and trebling is just not mathematically possible (much sarcasm from myself intended)
The reality is we just had a major pandemic and that Covid infection had long lasting effects on so many people and we still don’t understand things like long Covid so it can’t be treated, hence long term sickness steep uprise (if the tories hadn’t messed up the nhs and been so disorganised during the pandemic prehaps less people would be affected now)
The other thing that comes to mind (and it’s a very very delicate topic, I don’t have time to discuss in full and again a sensitive topic for a disability forum) is how the word ‘disability’ is defined today in comparison to 10 or even 20 years ago - I’d love to have an open discussion on this with other scope forum members (esp scope moderators if they are up for it) in a calm open minded way but it’s such a tricky subject and the last thing I’d want to do is to be perceived as ‘attacking’ others like myself but it wouldn’t surprise me if both the conservatives and labour higher ups have been asking this question (and getting an inaccurate answer/understanding because they have little understanding of the subject) - hence why I think it’s so important for the disabled community to think about this question
point is long term sickness benefit has risen far quicker than it should of and is costing more than it should at the worst time with the effects of brexit and cost of living at the same time - the perfect storm in many ways
i actually understand where both labour and the conservatives are coming from with all these announcements (or at least at the core - I have significantly more compassion than the average politician but autism has a perk of letting me simplify things to the black and white) but these politicians don’t understand the question (they only see sickness benefit bill going up, less people in work and they are thinking ‘2 birds, 1 stone’, when in reality it’s ‘square peg, round hole’ situation), they are not doing their research, seeking out people with the knowledge they lack and as a result have little chance of forming a successful, well informed answer
a reform of sickness/disability based welfare benefits is very much needed - it’s not working for anyone right now - however politicians need to realise that without heavy involvement from the disabled community an effective ‘solution won’t be possible - but us as a disabled community do need to think somewhat more realistically going forward, as much as I’d love the dwp to just ‘leave me alone’ and fight so hard for my awards it’s just not possible at this moment in time and I’m not sure that would be right either but at the same time no disabled person deserves the current normal
i believe both major party’s are being narrow minded in focus on getting as many disabled into the workplace as possible (it doesn’t help that their methods are badly thought out as well) - I believe ‘contribution’ is what should focused on (that could be via traditional work but there are many other ways a person can contribute to society)
(and I went into a long rant again, I’m really sorry…..to be picked up at another time)0 -
Hello Apple85
Both the Conservative and Labour party conferences have prominently featured discussions highlighting their mutual commitment to enhancing the participation of individuals with illnesses and disabilities in the workforce to bolster the economy. This dedication remains steadfast, even in cases where individuals may have been previously deemed unfit for work in health assessments. While the specifics of any new legislation remain unclear to me, it is evident, from my perspective, that there is a risk of underestimating the significant health-related barriers that hinder many from entering or sustaining employment.
There is a broad consensus regarding the urgent necessity for a comprehensive overhaul of the disability and sickness benefit system. This revision should prioritise active involvement and input from the disabled community before finalising any manifestos. Every benefit they plan to remove from claimants may reduce the budget but at what cost?
One can easily predict the rhetoric that may emerge: "We are the party that has successfully supported millions who were trapped in the disability and sickness benefit system, helping them re-enter the workforce."
However, it's important to remember that such claims often fail to fully comprehend the challenges, stress, and suffering that many individuals will endure in the process. The human cost should never be sacrificed in the pursuit of political victories aimed at reducing the welfare budget.
1 -
One can easily predict the rhetoric that may emerge: "We are the party that has successfully supported millions who were trapped in the disability and sickness benefit system, helping them re-enter the workforce."
This was precisely the rhetoric in 2015...
Labour's Owen Smith had to nudge Stephen Crabb into qualifying his closing remarks at the third reading of The Welfare Reform and Work Bill to get it through.
Stephen Timms was equally enthusiastic about providing new opportunities for those sick and disabled claimants "left behind" in the Support Group to get back into work under the new regulations. He'd signed off ESA and the WCA in March 2008 to make the assessment process fairer, easier etc etc so he knew the likely impact of these reforms.
The delayed Health Reassessment Programme under UC is being scaled up exponentially with scant debate in the years since 2015/16 about why a new Act of Parliament was needed to change incapacity benefits again!
I never have and never will support the Tories but the pretence from the main opposition party not to know is nauseating.
1 -
I’d like to post this again on this thread
i know faith in politicians is low and many of you think the current wca constitution is pointless (I’ve got my doubts) but it won’t hurt giving the dwp as much ‘reading material’ as possible………if stride/hunt still follow the due process the more forms their staff need to read the longer it will take them to make an ‘informed’ decision, or at the very least if hunt does announce anything on November 22nd we can catch them out in a lie (and yes that messed up logic)
below is the online consultation form which I’m 98% is anonymous - so those on here who can fill it in and click send (and if you have the resources save as a pdf, print out copies and mail/email/give to any mp candidate that may knock on your door in the run up to the next general election):
https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=6fbxllcQF0GsKIDN_ob4w3JkbHQVwcVCilq8424U23VUQkZQVEtZQVdOQjdOQzAySDNLTEpXRkkyNSQlQCN0PWcu
And I know many of you are thinking what’s the point, politician don’t care about the sick and disabled but I’d like to re bring up another group.
The ‘pensioner’ voting group has for a long time been a much desired vote target for political parties esp for the Tory party (case and point, the triple lock on state pensions is still solid and politicians are legit scared to touch it - why is that) - the pensioner group is very similar to the ‘disabled/sick’ group - we are both vulnerable groups and both make up a sizeable voting group (in fact the disabled/sick group vote would be larger if it was utilised by the majority) - the difference?, pensioners and their supporters kick up a mass outcry if someone even mentions that the triple lock may need to be looked at……….and they will use their vote in protest if need be (and I don’t mean spoiling a ballet paper), and hundreds of thousands will follow suit which is why parties go after their vote and don’t won’t to do anything against them that would be political suicide.
I will say it again, politicians keep on targeting sickness welfare because there will be little fight back and repercussion. Right now politicians see it as more profitable from their point of view to disfranchise the disabled & make them think their vote is pointless and them stay at home or spoil ballets
the reality is that there are hundreds of thousand of disabled/sick people in the uk (plus their unofficial carers and/or support systems) - a number that would rival or even outnumber the pensioner vote if fully utilised, a number that could potentially majorly impact an general election result.
we are allowing politicians to disfranchise us, to make us feel small and hopeless as that aids them, but in reality we are large in number, we are survivors and much stronger than we give ourselves for (just look at the last 15-20 years with all the shots and hurdles the dwp/politicians have thrown in our direction) and we have some very smart people in our community - if more of us could see that and start demanding respect then prehaps politician’s would start courting our mass number of votes rather than disfranchising
just a thought0 -
Also I know that there is no ‘disability friendly’ party in flashing lights (and I’ve kind of explained above why that is right now) and all parties look as bad as each other right now - a “whoever wins, we lose” type tagline.
There may not be a good case scenario if you are a disabled person voting next election but there is very much a worst case scenario
I honestly see no positives for the tories winning the next election and us dealing with strife/hunt/sunak for another 5 years - a vote for them would be reinforcing their cruel ideas
and yes labour don’t look much better (liz Kendall in particular leaving little to desire) but there are little sparks if you look closely - their disability minister is night and day from the current Tory, at their conference the language used to describe the disabled was different (I don’t think they used the work ‘shirker’ to describe us several times) and disability charity presence at the Labour conference was more noticeable
This may seem like crumbs for many of you, but I personally will take any crumb a can get and say that that if you want the full loaf we will need to fight for it (I know it sounds wrong to have to fight for things that should be a right, but life isn’t always fair)
The other thing to bear in mind is that you aren’t just voting for a political party, you are voting for a single individual person to represent your constituency area as an mp. Some of these mp’s are decent people, some want to work hard and do right by their community, some will stand up for people even if it’s not in their official party line. (I myself in the past have gotten help from a different constituency mp because my own clearly gave no toss about the area & the people they were meant to represent)
Tactical voting is a go way to go if you want to try and stop worst case outcome party wise but also remember that you are also voting for someone who could be useful resource for yourself in the future and it is in your best interest to find out about all your constituent mp candidates (perhaps even write to them and see if you get a reply) and their personal policies as it’s not just a party you are voting for, you could be voting for a possible advocate0 -
I don’t remember this particular consultancy being advertised by the dwp:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/disability-action-plan-2023-to-2024
(Making sign language a gcse language subject option is a great idea - why aren’t the tories publicising this instead of the terrible ones headlining the Tory conference)0 -
Hello Apple85
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and concerns. Over time, I've observed a recurring pattern in history where governments attempt to create discord within society. They often achieve this by offering attractive promises of tax reductions to voters in exchange for certain groups becoming more self-sufficient or self-supporting. This is often framed as being for the greater good, but I've consistently disagreed with this strategy, viewing it as a manipulative method to secure votes.
Apple, you have clearly put a lot of thought into this and have been keeping up with the latest developments. I'm curious, how do you suggest we motivate individuals to make their voices heard before decisions are set in stone?
What's your strategy for inspiring proactive engagement? I'm more than willing to support your ideas, but it's unfortunate that most people tend to voice their concerns only after it's too late.
I really am not sure how to motivate individuals or, for that matter, how to make politicians truly listen. What are your thoughts on this.
0 -
There is a broad consensus regarding the urgent necessity for a comprehensive overhaul of the disability and sickness benefit system.
MW - that was why ESA was introduced in 2008, to replace The Incapacity Benefit Regulations 1994. The WCA replaced the PCA as the means of measuring capability for work.
The 2016 Welfare Reform and Work Act radically altered the provisions allowed under Part 5 of the ESA regulations for the most vulnerable in society but the referendum, general elections and Covid took our attention away.
Communities and families were damaged during the first (failed) National Reassessment Programme of 2011 - 2014 and I fear a repeat on a much larger scale under UC. The new reassessment programme needs to be stopped, nothing less.
Certainly, Labour is the only party who would consider doing so but only if they're called out and I can't do this on my own!
Re voters - pensioners have a reliable income. The rest of us don't it would seem.
1 -
Hello WhatThe
Your observations on the historical changes in the system and the potential impact of the new reassessment program under UC are indeed valid. It's important to protect the welfare of our communities and families during these transitions.
You're absolutely right that this is a collective effort. While Labour may be a potential advocate, it will require a collective call for change. Your advocacy is commendable, and I'm interested in hearing more about your initiatives to raise awareness or influence policy changes.
1 -
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-12639475/Serco-wins-DWP-contract-disability-benefits-health-assessments.html
https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements/serco-secures-pound350m-dwp-contract--14984846.htmlNo idea if this is good, bad or ‘meh’ news (or not news at all)
perhaps someone with a better understanding of this type of thing would be able to explain what it means for us (if it’s not a ‘as you were’ situation) - I’m think it’s ‘as you were’!
edit: Serco has significant links to the Tory party (so more cronyism/favours for mates), have profited hugely from various government contracts over the past few years
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwp-tried-to-prevent-atos-winning-338m-assessment-contract-court-documents-suggest/
the conservatives needed to go yesterday imo, I’m tired from years of eye rolling!0 -
Apple, the statement provided in your 2nd link from Serco expressing their excitement about securing the £350m contract, appears to be lacking in specific details. A statement that merely assures a focus on treating all claimants with care and respect is quite general in nature.
Additionally, it's significant to highlight that as of August 2022, only 5% of Serco's workforce consisted of disabled staff, which prompts inquiries into their dedication to fostering diversity and inclusion within their own organisation.
It might be beneficial for Mark Irwin, CEO of Serco, to share their plans and proposals for the implementation of the FSA project in the South West region starting September 2024.
0 -
Well, I'm pretty sure the SNP knows what happened in 2015 because they abstained as do the Lib Dems after their time in government.
I emailed all parties and received a letter from each including the then SSWP.
Therese Coffey dropped a huge hint before and after she left office when she mentioned the Oxford comma!
Autistic so I find composition and IT difficult..
How do we stop UC? I don't know how it was allowed to take off this year. A vulnerable claimant's disability status is lost upon migration to UC - where then is the protection? There are now four groups of UC eligibility and rates in place of ESA's two and there's nothing simple about it.
10 years of trials must have been embarrassing and the migration regulations were tightened further in 2022.
0 -
WhatThe said:
A vulnerable claimant's disability status is lost upon migration to UC - where then is the protection? There are now four groups of UC eligibility and rates in place of ESA's two and there's nothing simple about it.
This isn't the first time you've said this and everytime i advise you that it just isn't correct. When someone transfers from ESA to UC even when their ESA claim remains live as NI credits only, their ESA status transfers with them.Members will be reading this and become anxious and scared because it's scare mongering.UC isn't perfect by any means but many people transfer without any issues at all. For those in the Support Group for ESA unless their ESA includes the SDP then UC with LCWRA element actually pays more than ESA Support Group.This is the reason why those that are claiming ESA are on hold for managed migration until at least 2028 (unless they claim Tax credits as well) because it will save the Government millions of pounds. Many people do not realise that they are losing out on money by continuing with their ESA claim, rather than move to UC.4 -
As others have stated quite rightly here, people will NOT lose their disability status when being moved from DLA to UC. We as a community need to be vigilant that the information that we're giving people is correct, else it will lead to panic and we want this to be a safe place, full of support and brilliant advice.
@WhatThe I'm so sorry about your situation and experience with the DWP, but yours is very much an unusual occurrence. We all want to help you resolve your issues, but we also have to be super careful that we don't spread misinformation.2 -
Hey Albus,
I will dig out the relevant information but that will take me a long time ok?
BTW Scope, my latest post was in drafts and shouldn't be here at all - comments queued, website crashes when I edit, notifications disappear before I open them...exhausting
Biblioklept,
I think you will find most autistic people are good people and I am no exception.
I'm also terrified but not for myself. This isn't about my experience which I know to be uncommon but not unique - I've learned masses from this forum about my case and I'm grateful for that, thank you all!
My concerns are that the proposals are not really new plans and the consultation may only be a formality. I don't think we know enough yet about the last reforms is what I'm trying to say
1 -
Thanks for the feedback @WhatThe and sorry it's exhausting! I'll have a look into why your draft was posted later. That's very odd indeed.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 14.9K Start here and say hello!
- 7K Coffee lounge
- 81 Games den
- 1.7K People power
- 104 Announcements and information
- 23.5K Talk about life
- 5.5K Everyday life
- 289 Current affairs
- 2.3K Families and carers
- 857 Education and skills
- 1.9K Work
- 501 Money and bills
- 3.5K Housing and independent living
- 1K Transport and travel
- 865 Relationships
- 253 Sex and intimacy
- 1.4K Mental health and wellbeing
- 2.4K Talk about your impairment
- 858 Rare, invisible, and undiagnosed conditions
- 916 Neurological impairments and pain
- 2K Cerebral Palsy Network
- 1.2K Autism and neurodiversity
- 38.2K Talk about your benefits
- 5.9K Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
- 19.2K PIP, DLA, ADP and AA
- 7.7K Universal Credit (UC)
- 5.5K Benefits and income