Welfare benefits news, possible changes & constructive ‘discussion - an ongoing thread

apple85

Just to remind you all that we are in the last week of the wca consultation:

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2023/10/23/dwp-wca-consultation-closing/

I know many of you may seem this as a waste of time, that the tories have already made up their minds and won’t bother reading the responses (and honestly depending on what Hunt comes out with on the chancellors statement 3 weeks later on 22nd November May confirm my own personal fears on the subject)

The thing is I can’t imagine many disabled people or charities would have anything positive to say about these reforms and probably be telling the gov to go back to the drawing board - meaning I’m 99% certain that IF hunt/stride goes ahead with the worst case scenario they would be ignoring the disability charities responses to the consultation (and from my own research a huge amount of charities have confirmed that they have responded) and the dwp/gov would basically need to ignore or even bury the charity responses and any other disabled person/carer responses to create any sort of justification going the cruel route they obviously want to go. I for one want to make it as hard as possible for them to ignore/bury the consultation responses and to do that the consultation needs an avalanche of ‘worn-out’ disabled people and their carers responses - several thousand responses will cause more of a ‘headache’ to the likes of hunt/stride than a few hundred! - I know many of you are tired, lost hope and almost resigned to this but please don’t make things easy for a few mean men that don’t seem to possess a shred of human empathy between them!

And yes my logic is a tad wacky on this but if a reform with the worst case scenario is allowed to go ahead then what will the likes of the gov ministers try to push through next (and I’ve read some pretty scary stuff from sources of where Tory mps would like to go next) - the buck needs to be slowed or stopped whilst it still can and that will require a huge effect & push from the disabled community……if only for the sake of self preservation 

obviously any mods let me know if I need to reword anything

these are pencilled in personal opinion, nothings ‘permanent marker pen’ in - the next official news on the status of these reforms won’t be earlier than the 22nd November 

apple85

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/wca-consultation-points-to-consider

A useful read

WhatThe

apple,
 
Well done for sticking with this! I wasn't going to bother because I'm angry and cynical about them but looking at this link from your last post changed my mind so I will  

WhatThe

The DWP consultation on making the work capability assessment for universal credit and ESA much harsher ends on 30 October.

Benefits and Work has so far avoided giving any guidance on how to respond because we do not want to be seen to be leading people.

However, this comment from Joe made us rethink that position:

 “Please help us to respond. It's not enough to provide us with the anxiety provoking news about the proposed changes. We need help to make points when responding. It's hard for those with energy limiting conditions or those that produce brain fog to make clear points. In order to be informed, we have to become terrified, which then makes us less able to respond. Please give us guidance as it otherwise is simply too scary to engage with.”

 So, we have produced some ‘talking points’ to help those who might find them useful in creating their own responses, though there are undoubtedly many more issues that could be covered.  Unfortunately, the information is still detailed and complex.

But the most important thing is to tell the DWP whether or not you are in favour of the idea of making the WCA much more difficult to score points for.  You don’t have to give detailed answers or answer every question – just pick one or two points to make. 

If the DWP receive thousands of responses and most of them are on the same side, then that will be sufficient

In order to respond, you can complete the anonymous form, but it is deliberately designed to keep your answers within very narrow limits – there isn’t even an ‘Anything else you would like to tell us’ box.

Or you can simply send an email telling the DWP whatever you choose to:

wcaactivitiesanddescriptors.consultation@dwp.gov.uk

You can read more about the consultation here.

apple85

Oh I’m angry and cynical too

but it feels like it’s gone too far this time………and if certain politicians want to make my life and those in our community more difficult the least I can do is be ‘difficult’ myself (ie…not roll over/be walked over - become part of that forest of thorns from the end of disneys sleeping beauty if you get what I mean) - I want to throw as many spanner’s in the narrative that these politicians are going after (that they successfully ‘helped’ disabled claimants back to work and lowered the welfare bill……..when we all know that’s political spin and behind the scene would be very different………….unless of course ministers gain a few brain cells in the meantime and realise they will need to heavily work & collaborate with the disabled community to gain any true success)

it’s funny because in my old thread I used the term ‘winter is coming’ and I need to be careful how I say the next thing but it popped into my head that it’s funny who came out on top and who were (lesser sung) heroes on the tv series 

apple85

Also anyone who is going to fill in the online consultation form or send an email instead - i’d recommend copying & pasting your answers on a word document for potential future use.

The next election is within the next 15 months and as I said before you aren’t just voting for a party but an mp to represent your constituent but also someone who could be a useful resource & advocate for yourself.

nearer to the election im probably via my spare ‘burner’ email going to email every major candidate in my area with the stuff for the consultation and other things and see if I get a response or at least give them some food for thought (if prospective mp’s don’t bother to listen during an election when they need votes then they probably won’t improve that once elected)

Jimm_Alumni

Regarding answering the consultation, please do let us at Scope know how the proposed changes will affect you. Our policy team is putting together a response to the consultation and our public affairs teams also liaise with MPs to advocate for disabled people in parliament itself. We use these stories and experiences to help Scope communicate how exactly it will affect people. They're anonymised if you are concerned about that, but we also have an anonymous form you can fill in too.

apple85

@Jimm_Scope

i noticed a couple of charities have started publishing a ‘disability manifesto’ (I think they are like checklists of what they’d like political parties to put on their own manifesto’s or endorse - I’ll provide links later/another day if it’s of interest to anyone)

does scope plan to do something similar

Also I think the one thing that everyone agrees on is that sickness based welfare benefits does really need a reform of some type

what would be really cool in my eyes would be if a charity like scope could publish their own ‘welfare reform strategy and ideas’ (perhaps working with other major charities) done in collaboration with scope members/forum members (you could set up a consultation online form just like the gov has done with these wca reforms)

im not blind and I can understand what has triggered both the tories and labours sudden interest and push to get the disabled working, I just think they have a huge lack of understanding of the true ‘problem’ and aren’t equipped/‘educated’ enough to provide a satisfactory solution 

I truly believe that the best ideas and strategy for any future sickness/disability based welfare benefit reforms will come from a corner of the disabled community (whom have a better overall understanding of sickness welfare ‘problems’ than 99.9% of mp’s)…….most likely via the collaboration of many ideas.


(I myself have a few ideas, but I imagine there’s people on forum like this one with even better ones or who help turn a person’s idea into a legit solution that whoever is in gov should have a look at if they are open minded and smart)

apple85

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/oct/23/uk-risks-scandal-over-bias-in-ai-tools-in-use-across-public-sector

Not sure why the dwp would need ai to help them create unfair bias, they’ve already been run by the 4 horseman (IDS, Mcvey, Coffey and Stride)

I am of course being very sarcastic in my bad attempt of the above joke 😝

Jimm_Alumni

Yes I read that article on AI.

AI can have it's uses, the problem is having people who don't understand how AI works use AI. AI can flag *potentials* to you. But if the person using the AI doesn't know how REAL AI works, not the film/TV kind where the AI is always "right", then they assume it must be right.

I'm also certain there's better things it can be tested on than deciding benefits claims.

Jimm_Alumni

Oh, also about a manifesto. Scope does have the social model of disability Social model of disability | Disability charity Scope UK. There are also multiple campaigns Campaigns | Disability charity Scope UK that Scope runs at any one time.

The last time Scope published something actually called a "Disability Manifesto" was around the same time as the last election I believe. 

apple85

Jimm_Scope said:

Oh, also about a manifesto. Scope does have the social model of disability Social model of disability | Disability charity Scope UK. There are also multiple campaigns Campaigns | Disability charity Scope UK that Scope runs at any one time.

The last time Scope published something actually called a "Disability Manifesto" was around the same time as the last election I believe. 

Thanks for the links Jimm

id like to highlight the following statement from the first link as I don’t think it’s something that is highlighted that often:apple85 said:

‘The model says that people are disabled by barriers in society, not by their impairment or difference. Barriers can be physical, like buildings not having accessible toilets. Or they can be caused by people's attitudes to difference, like assuming disabled people can't do certain things.’

id like to add my own personal opinion that every time that a politician say something ‘negative’ about the disabled (from the current narrative of being shirkers, work shy and questioning if we are actually sick to older comments such as some disabled people were “not worth” the minimum wage (Freud) & suggesting an increase in the number of disabled people in employment could be partly to blame for the uk’s sluggish productivity (Hammond)) that is just enforces the negative stereotypes of the disabled that many of the public have and as a result it becomes even harder for the disabled to find a way (safe or not) to contribute to society - our politicans don’t release that many of their comments on the sick & disabled over the years have been massively counterproductive and actually they’ve created much of the problem in terms of public attitudes and what I’ve already mentioned above.


I did briefly skim through the other link but I’d like to go back to the comments I made at the second half of the post you were responding to:

apple85 said:

what would be really cool in my eyes would be if a charity like scope could publish their own ‘welfare reform strategy and ideas’ (perhaps working with other major charities) done in collaboration with scope members/forum members (you could set up a consultation online form just like the gov has done with these wca reforms)

im not blind and I can understand what has triggered both the tories and labours sudden interest and push to get the disabled working, I just think they have a huge lack of understanding of the true ‘problem’ and aren’t equipped/‘educated’ enough to provide a satisfactory solution 

I truly believe that the best ideas and strategy for any future sickness/disability based welfare benefit reforms will come from a corner of the disabled community (whom have a better overall understanding of sickness welfare ‘problems’ than 99.9% of mp’s)…….most likely via the collaboration of many ideas.

In an ideal world most of what many disability charities are putting in their own manifestos would be adopted by political parties with little resistance as a lot of it is just about getting respect.

But we all know that right now uk finances are in a total mess (brexit, Covid, cost of living) and that a huge chunk of the public are hugely against the illusion of those in the uk who get ‘help’ but don’t give back anything in return (I know that statement is wrong on many fronts and there is much ‘small print’ those public either don’t know about or just don’t care - but unfortunately my point is those of us on welfare benefits for whatever reason are often placed in that group).

I think if we are being realistic the disabled community (both charities and individuals) needs to start thinking about ‘compromise’ (ie……what would we be willing to offer or give back in return for policies that would make society fairer and kinder for the sick & disabled of this country and hopefully improve public perception and understanding as a result) and if there was a way to do that that could be proven to save the government money (charities have many requests but don’t always factor in the costs)

Right now both major parties are only seeing the superficial problems (employment vacancies and the increasing welfare bill/country further in debt) and have come up with a pretty superficial ‘solution’ without spending the time thinking/researching the issue more and perhaps coming up with some alternative solutions.

My point was that if a consultation (like the current one from the gov) is done well it provides a lot of insight and possibly some solutions - but something like that would need to be a public wide campaign to be effective (something the average individual couldn’t do) and the big disability charities are best placed to reach as much of their target audience as possible (and get media coverage)


I know I sprout a lot off big talk but sadly I think that’s may be my limit (I’m so lucky in terms of the support system I have and in my own way I try and pay it forward by being active on forums like this and ultimately saying something that helps another out) - I’d love to do more and be more proactive but I don’t have the connections or skills to do so but a charity like scope does (and even more so if they do something in collaboration with other charity’s)

apple85

There are a few rumours about the Tory party setup potentially changing in coming months - 100% facts are scarce (nothing is confirmed) and the last thing I want to do is scare anyone but major papers are reporting stuff and it’s making it’s way onto social media. As it may impact our community indirectly I thought I should post a brief summary and thoughts

so the reports are the following (once again all rumours as papers have no direct quotes so can’t confirm any insider titbit for sure):

> Hunt may resign as chancellor before the next election (that was denied by his people a few hours later) but there’s also reports that there’s a sector of the party that see hunt as ‘timid’ and want a more inspirational chancellor to be installed in his place in the coming months with stride a possible candidate (presuming this is the far right sector of the tories who want this)

> it’s also presumed a pre election cabinet shuffle may happen this or early next year. Alongside Hunts name, Braverman may lose her job (which I imagine the Tory moderates are leaking) and Gove & Coffey are also being mentioned as possible ministers to also go (in terms of braverman, considering she’s the darling of the far right quarter of the party and her support was a major reason why sunak is now pm I imagine he won’t want to fire her as that would make her a more dangerous threat to his position but that’s my opinion 

> sunak yesterday officially hit 1 year in office which means his grace period (no ‘No confidence’ vote in pm’s first year in power) is over. It’s being reported that around 20-25 letters are rumoured to have been sent to Brady so far (53 letters are currently needed to trigger a no confidence vote - so not even halfway if true). The even vaguer rumours are that it’s the far right sector putting in the letters and they want to install braverman as pm in the next 6 weeks (take that one with a huge grain of salt)

If I’m going by logic there seems to be a number of different prominent sectors emerging from the Tory party right now - the far right (who are scared to lose voters to the reform party), the moderates (who are worried about the party moving too far right), and those who still think Liz truss is relevant (the completely mad) amongst others and not mentioning any other personal agendas.
They are all heavily trying to influence sunaks own policies and the worst case is that if he doesn’t bow down to their policies they may try and force him out - that would be a very extreme case as the tories will look like a complete clown circus if they have yet another no confidence vote and a 5th Tory pm in 8 years plus common sense wise even though there’s obviously a few Tory mp’s despite for power but as there’s a very good chance they may only be in power till the next election (15 months max) the safer bet is that they are waiting to pick at the carcass that is sunaks political career after the next election.




what that most likely means for us is sunak will almost certainly want to stay (cling) in power so in the coming months he may want to appease the Tory sector most likely to keep him in power till the next election and if he does choose that could impact his disability based policies (which was always a given)
- however just because sunak wants to do something doesn’t mean it’s 100% locked in (other parties, the lords, the courts, public backlash amongst others may obstruct his path)

apple85

There are only 4 days left to take part in the gov’s wca reform consultation - you can take part by:

> filling in the following online form
https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=6fbxllcQF0GsKIDN_ob4w3JkbHQVwcVCilq8424U23VUQkZQVEtZQVdOQjdOQzAySDNLTEpXRkkyNSQlQCN0PWcu
(I’m 99% sure this online form is sent back to the dwp anonymously)

> email your response to the questions to the address
wcaactivitiesanddescriptors.consultation@dwp.gov.uk
(Create/use a ‘burner’ email account if you feel that that would help you)

further gov links:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/work-capability-assessment-activities-and-descriptors/work-capability-assessment-activities-and-descriptors



but if you’re worried about the whole ip address location thing (which you shouldn’t but I understand why some of you may be), initially write your answers on a word doc, email it to yourself then copy/paste onto the online form from somewhere like a library computer or a mobile device or ask a friend if they could email your answers/response on your behalf.

this is a pretty good q&a - https://meassociation.org.uk/2023/08/dhsc-interim-delivery-plan-on-me-cfs-public-consultation-information/


below are links to templates, letters and guides that other charity’s/organisations have posted that may help you fill out the consultation:

https://dpac.uk.net/2023/10/template-response-to-the-wca-consultation/

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/wca-consultation-points-to-consider

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/dr-uk-urges-you-oppose-government’s-dangerous-cost-cutting-wca-reforms

https://meassociation.org.uk/2023/10/me-association-the-work-capability-assessment-consultation/

apple85

I’d also recommend you all read this article from the mirror as it’s majorly thought provoking:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dwp-telling-lies-work-capability-31278923



id recommended that you all look at the dwp and try this out for yourself
https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk/search

In my own immediate area 60% of the jobs are for care home/social care stuff, 10% as cleaners, 10% busy factory or shop type environments, and 9-10% where you need a degree of some type (which not all the disabled have as for some disability ends up being a barrier to completing education)……..there’s occasionally an unique listing but that’s pot luck and they go very quickly

when you narrow that to the ‘findajob’ work from home jobs only the care home and cleaning jobs remain (neither being WFH jobs) 

when I widened the search to the nearest big towns (which I can only reach via 1hr long 4 time a day buses which can be a pretty stressful experience for many of the disabled) I found a couple more WFH positions but they required a degree and going into the office at least twice a week so actually not WFM at all


The irony to all this is if the wca worst case reforms go ahead there’s a significant chance some of us may be ‘encouraged’ by a job centre to apply to ‘WFH’ jobs like a care home staff member  =. basically the most vulnerable in society may soon be caring for the most vulnerable in society!


There are only 3 other ways of the disabled that I can personally think of at the top of my head, to find a WFH job (please post if I’ve missed out something)

> you persuade the person who posted a normal job listing to make it a WFH position (if you have a social based disability this would be a struggle at best)

> you contact suitable businesses that match your skill set and try and persuade them to create a WFH position just for you (hell of a lot of issues with this one, for a start I don’t think even average jobseekers are expected to do this)

> you could become self employed working from home (the most ‘realistic’ of the 3 - but after the 1 year reprieve of the minimum income floor you’d start getting welfare payment cut as you’d be presumed to work 35hrs a week @ min wage and most likely called into the jobcentre if you haven’t hit 35hrs and back to the UC claimant agreement terms)


the other major thing is both Stride and Hunt have spoken of the current uk job vacancies and their aim & desire that those currently on long term sickness benefits could fill some of those positions (by my maths, self employment would blow apart this argument from Stride & Hunt - meaning they are daft to not release this or some fibbing is going on and this was never about uk job gaps and only about clawing more money from society’s most vulnerable)


my logic here is perhaps wrong (I’m sure someone will correct me and I welcome further input) but it’s what my personal thought process is concluding

apple85

It’s the last 24hrs of the government consultation

if you haven’t already please fill in the online form (link 2 posts above) - I know this may be a difficult and exhausting task for many on this forum but the final decision that the gov/politicians make of these reforms will affect hundreds of thousands of us if they go through. This is the time that we need to fight for ourselves however we can.

Every little counts so if you can only fill in half the online form, then send it in incomplete - if you can only answer one question, then that’s okay too, just press sent 

(the scope moderators may disagree here & their input would be appreciated if they have a differing view but if the idea of filling in form short circuits your brain and you get panic attacks before you start I’d be tempted just to type that quickly and send - I don’t know if that’s good advice or not - a little self pushing is okay but don’t push too far over your limits)

lastly there is a protest on this being held in London tomorrow (see below):

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2023/10/25/dwp-protest-wca-plans/

apple85

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/money/new-dwp-benefit-fraud-measures-31344247

It’s never ending right now (how are they going to carry out each new proposal when a new one seems to drop every month and we know the dwp are disorganised & lacking in staff!)

if they do this I’m personally hugely against “Collecting information about where claimants are spending money” - it’s our money and unless we are suspected of fraud we shouldn’t be treated like naughty children that needs to be watched at all time - we have a right to privacy on our spending habits

Full report on study below:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/survey-of-public-perceptions-of-fraud-error-and-debt/survey-of-public-perceptions-of-fraud-error-and-debt-summary

apple85

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/toxic-dwp-caused-mental-health-collapse-in-one-third-of-jobcentre-team-in-a-year/

there are some very decent people who work at jobcentres (yes there are some that challenge my belief in humanity, but I’ve met some lovely ones whom try to do the decent thing even with the pressure from above and it’s only getting harder for them) and they deserve our compassion in this 

WhatThe

Published by DNS on the same day is a new report on Errol Brown's death by starvation. DWP unlawfully stopped his benefits then lied at his inquest.
I'm not moved by stories of staff stress just the benefit-related deaths from the first national reassessment programme and the prospect of more from this one. 

 

apple85

So the wca reform consultation is over and some of you may be wondering when we’ll be hearing about what happens next and the gov’s decision on this.

sadly (or not) i’m not a fly on stride’s or hunt’s office nor have access to their announcement diaries so im going to have to use a good out guesstimate here

so im going to draw your attention to the following I found on one of the gov’s webpages on the consultation 

If this is accurate I’m 99% certain that we will be getting an update of some sort (or even findings/decision) from the consultation between now and the 19th December (when government rises for the Xmas recess - so I doubt ministers will release any statements over the holidays) - so it’s very likely that we are going to hear more within the next 6 and a bit weeks

(we know that the consultation was rushed and not given enough time, it’s looking like the decision from stride/hunt will most likely follow the same pattern - if so it’s shoddy ti say the least)

there are 2 particular dates I’d recommend keeping an ear out on:

> the chancellors autumn statement on the 22nd November for obvious reasons

> the kings speech on the 7th November - this is important as it provides the gov/pm with an opportunity to highlight its priorities for the next 12 months (aka the last 12 months where the tories can try and achieve things before to next general election to persuade voters to stick with them)
the speech sets out the laws the gov wants to get through Parliament in the coming 12 months (I’m not sure on this but I think the gov may need to pass some laws ans legislation changed before any possible reforms can happen)


the constitution and our responses only mark the start of what may turn out to be a long battle for the disabled community so it’s important to stay alert for any possible updates then let things slide by us before we have a time to process (and if necessary protest/‘fight’)

with that in mind I’d lastly like to draw attention to another screenshot from the gov webpage on the reform consultation:

It is vital that our community (those who are disabled or sick/with health issues) and the associated charities/organisations hold this Tory government to each one of these highlighted points and create a ruckus of backlash if they ignore any of these 3 points in their plans going forward.

(the red and green highlighted points are pretty understandable but the yellow point I have less knowledge on - I think it may be referring to the following - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1099024/2022-08_Guide_to_Making_Legislation_-_master_version__4_.pdf - which sounds like the ‘legislative change’  that the gov seems to need to carry out the wca reform proposals is something that will take significant time.
if someone could expand on the above it would be much appreciated)



edit: a better writeup of the report from my 3rd to last post (on the benefit fraud perception study findings)…didn’t get to the edit post button on time

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/dwp-considers-powers-of-arrest,-seizure-and-collecting-information-on-where-claimants-spend-money