Would you accept having your bank account checked?

WhatThe

There is no need for anyone to be cruel to others especially when the people may be vulnerable and less able to cope.
If people could check what they are writing before they post the comment it might help? 
This is a supportive environment and nobody has the right to use it for any other purpose.

honestjon, please explain. What have I missed? 

honestjon

Albus_Scope said:

I think it's probably best for everyone if we just draw a line through that particular part of the conversation now.  

WhatThe said:

There is no need for anyone to be cruel to others especially when the people may be vulnerable and less able to cope.
If people could check what they are writing before they post the comment it might help? 
This is a supportive environment and nobody has the right to use it for any other purpose.

honestjon, please explain. What have I missed? 

apple85

@woodbine

I'm a glass half empty person but that last post of yours is really negative (I mean I get some people don’t like to sugar coat reality but no need to get out the ‘wet fish’ )

firstly everyone knows an labour outright majority is most likely next GE

i think a small Tory majority is next most likely (if all the tactical voting gets their wires crossed and/or the reform party do some sort of deal pre election.

but the last supply and demand arrangement was the tories with the duo (who only had 10 mps in parliament) - they didn’t have the bargaining chips for a coalition deal

lib Dem’s currently have 15 seats - im 99% they will build on that next GE and I think that in the situation of 35 or more seats the Lib Dem’s won’t settle for a supply and demand arrangement 

of course labour in that scenario could choose to go the minority gov route

and a lab-LD coalition is MY personal preference only - not what I thinks going to happen (I only think there’s a 3% chance it will happen but I can hope)

————————————————

on your second point - I don’t know what your personal situation is (if you have any fallbacks) but if the worst gets announced this week and more so if it’s officially implemented it’s going to have a negative effect on many of this forum members lives.

both forum mods and those with gamechanger status on the scope forum are the most respected and when they say something people who visit this forum are more likely to read & listen

so when you imply that there’s sod all any of us can do, the uk population doesn’t care enough about the disabled to remember any of this for even 48hrs and we should just except our (what is looking increasingly dire) fates………………well it’s a a bit of a gut punch even for the glass half empty of us here

very few things in life are full gone conclusions - and yes perhaps the sheer idea of trying to push back and change things seems like wastes of time & pointless in situations like this but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try (nor should those who do be discouraged or made fun of)

I can’t remember if you are in the ‘none of this will ever happen’ thought group or the ‘accepting fate with no resistance’ type 

The uk is a country of free thought and speech - it’s your right to feel the way you.

but I do think all of us have a responsibility not to demoralise others and not reject others opinions off the bat (not without a type of reasoned explanation) 

WhatThe

I have no idea what your oblique comment was about nor why my question was difficult to answer.

Never mind  

Tonawanda17

Just found this : 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/dwp-to-change-bank-account-rules-in-days-as-part-of-huge-shake-up-source-claims/ar-AA1kce5o?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ad39343b78e74dc58ecc0d8a4a7857eb&ei=17

WhatThe

In answer to the question, if this is going to happen then objecting won't stop this because bank accounts belong to the banks! We're being monitored whether we realise it or not. It's why everyone now needs to open an account to receive benefits.

I doubt there are many claimants on working-age benefits (£60/70 a week) with secret savings though.. 

Not everyone can manage admin or access their documents or pay for the bank statements on demand and therein lies the risk of penalising the most vulnerable (as always) for non-compliance or delay.

When I was in work before lockdown, UC taxed my earnings at 63% despite my employer paying directly into my bank account and my not being self-employed or liable for a minimum income floor (MIF). 

Checks and balances of the UC Programme are not in place and monitoring bank accounts won't change that! 

Woodbine is right about the bulk of the budget accounting for pensions even with the 6/7-year extension now imposed on women. Reforms never save money either.  

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

or delay.

When I was in work before lockdown, UC taxed my earnings at 63% despite my employer paying directly into my bank account and my not being self-employed or liable for a minimum income floor (MIF). 

UC do not deduct tax from your earnings. They deduct an earnings taper which used to be 63%, so 63p for every £1of earnings you receive. That taper has now been reduced to 55%, 55p for every £1 of earnings received.

For those that are entitled to the work allowance there's a certain amount of earnings you can receive before those deductions apply. If you claim for help with the rent it will be £379/month, if you don't it will be £631/month. The work allowance applies to those that have been found to have either LCW/LCWRA or have children on their claim. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/universal-credit-and-earnings

I would expect your employer to pay your earnings into your bank and for HMRC to deduct any tax and NI contributions where applicable. 

Those claiming UC that are self employed need to report their earnings and expenses on the last day of each assessment period. It is totally different to being PAYE.

poppy123456

Tonawanda17 said:

Just found this : 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/dwp-to-change-bank-account-rules-in-days-as-part-of-huge-shake-up-source-claims/ar-AA1kce5o?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ad39343b78e74dc58ecc0d8a4a7857eb&ei=17

Nothing new there than what's already been talked about over multiple threads.

honestjon

apple85 said:

@woodbine

I'm a glass half empty person but that last post of yours is really negative (I mean I get some people don’t like to sugar coat reality but no need to get out the ‘wet fish’ )

firstly everyone knows an labour outright majority is most likely next GE

i think a small Tory majority is next most likely (if all the tactical voting gets their wires crossed and/or the reform party do some sort of deal pre election.

but the last supply and demand arrangement was the tories with the duo (who only had 10 mps in parliament) - they didn’t have the bargaining chips for a coalition deal

lib Dem’s currently have 15 seats - im 99% they will build on that next GE and I think that in the situation of 35 or more seats the Lib Dem’s won’t settle for a supply and demand arrangement 

of course labour in that scenario could choose to go the minority gov route

and a lab-LD coalition is MY personal preference only - not what I thinks going to happen (I only think there’s a 3% chance it will happen but I can hope)

————————————————

on your second point - I don’t know what your personal situation is (if you have any fallbacks) but if the worst gets announced this week and more so if it’s officially implemented it’s going to have a negative effect on many of this forum members lives.

both forum mods and those with gamechanger status on the scope forum are the most respected and when they say something people who visit this forum are more likely to read & listen

so when you imply that there’s sod all any of us can do, the uk population doesn’t care enough about the disabled to remember any of this for even 48hrs and we should just except our (what is looking increasingly dire) fates………………well it’s a a bit of a gut punch even for the glass half empty of us here

very few things in life are full gone conclusions - and yes perhaps the sheer idea of trying to push back and change things seems like wastes of time & pointless in situations like this but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try (nor should those who do be discouraged or made fun of)

I can’t remember if you are in the ‘none of this will ever happen’ thought group or the ‘accepting fate with no resistance’ type 

The uk is a country of free thought and speech - it’s your right to feel the way you.

but I do think all of us have a responsibility not to demoralise others and not reject others opinions off the bat (not without a type of reasoned explanation) 

woodbine said:

apple85 said:

Tonawanda17 said:

Hi Rosie. Are you saying it’s possible we might get a new government before it’s implemented? Let’s all vote labour. It’s time for change

Honestly I’m hoping for a labour - Lib Dem coalition 

for a start labour aren’t the strategic vote everywhere (esp after the events of this week)

second is I’ve heard some good things from the current Lib Dem constituencies (there’s so few of them that they don’t take their seats for granted……….unlike some Tory mp lifers that will remain nameless)

lastly in recent weeks a few Lib Dem’s mps have given reaction quotes to all the recent dwp stuff that is somewhat empathetic towards what this could mean for the disabled (as has a few snp mps if I’m being fair)

in comparison the shadow work and pensions minister liz Kendall is happy to criticise the tories but has shown zero compassion and concern for the disabled and doesn’t even acknowledge us.

as a disabled person I would only recommend voting labour if that is the strategic vote for your constituency in the upcoming general election (Tory’s out at all costs)
- if starmer in the meantime has another reshuffle and replaces Kendall with someone like Reynolds or Nandy then I may change my recommendation but right now it’s tactically voting all the way (don’t spoil your votes ppl)

There is zero chance of a Labour-lib dem coalition after the coming election, what will happen is that Labour will be the largest party and the lib dems will enter into a supply and demand arrangement i.e they won't vote down essential legislation kings speech/budet no confidence votes. Events of this week will have no effect on the election whatsoever as they say todays headlines-tomorrows fish and chip wrappers.

I think woodbine has taken the realistic viewpoint in a way.
Even if labour win it won't change much for the average person.
Not the most optimistic of comments but a comment based on seeing many elections and false hopes.

WhatThe

Yes, so like I said, I was taxed at 63% of my earnings under UC.

And as I said, I was PAYE therefore not liable for a MIF nor a 63% tax at source!

 

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

Tonawanda17 said:

Just found this : 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/dwp-to-change-bank-account-rules-in-days-as-part-of-huge-shake-up-source-claims/ar-AA1kce5o?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ad39343b78e74dc58ecc0d8a4a7857eb&ei=17

Nothing new there than what's already been talked about over multiple threads.

It's one step nearer though.
And talk elsewhere is suggesting that future increases of the State Pension should be means tested
as well as the pensioners heating allowance. Many actually don't need that payment - maybe means testing would be the simple answer?

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

Yes, so like I said, I was taxed at 63% of my earnings under UC.

And as I said, I was PAYE therefore not liable for a MIF nor a 63% tax at source!

 

You are still not correct, it's not tax, never has been and never will be. DWP do not deal with tax. If you didn't have the work allowance at that time then yes any earnings received would have reduced your UC by the taper rate at that time. Just because you were PAYE it doesn't mean the earnings taper rate didn't apply to you.

Please read the link i posted above. This way you won't be giving misleading information.

WhatThe

I was PAYE, not self-employed and therefore not liable for the MIF nor a 63% deduction at source! It's a tax by any other name like the spare room subsidy. 

I was left with £50 for food, bills and travel costs despite being IN WORK and having LCWRA. The UC Programme does not help people back into work nor does it support people to stay in work, whatever the hype. It's a digital con you will only understand once you are forced to claim it. 

honestjon

2oldcodgers said:

poppy123456 said:

Tonawanda17 said:

Just found this : 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/dwp-to-change-bank-account-rules-in-days-as-part-of-huge-shake-up-source-claims/ar-AA1kce5o?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ad39343b78e74dc58ecc0d8a4a7857eb&ei=17

Nothing new there than what's already been talked about over multiple threads.

It's one step nearer though.
And talk elsewhere is suggesting that future increases of the State Pension should be means tested
as well as the pensioners heating allowance. Many actually don't need that payment - maybe means testing would be the simple answer?

There is no simple answer to a complex problem.
Trying to reduce old age pensioners income is a low blow and no one in their right mind would suggest it.

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

I was PAYE, not self-employed and therefore not liable for the MIF nor a 63% deduction at source! It's a tax by any other name like the spare room subsidy. 

I was left with £50 for food, bills and travel costs despite being IN WORK and having LCWRA. The UC Programme does not help people back into work nor does it support people to stay in work, whatever the hype. It's a digital con you will only understand once you are forced to claim it. 

I'm sorry but i'll say it again, it's not tax! If you're entitled to the work allowance then earnings over that amount will reduce your UC. For those not entitled to the work allowance then for every £1 of earnings they receive the earnings taper applies. This applies to anyone that receives earnings, whether it's PAYE or self employed. Not sure why you think that the earnings taper wouldn't apply.  

How much you would have been entitled to at that time would have depended on what your maximum UC entitlement was and how much earnings you received each month.

I understand it perfectly thank you. I also manage my daughters UC on her behalf.

WhatThe

As I keep trying to explain, entitlement doesn't mean having or getting..

Assuming residency, we're all entitled to equal pay, the Minimum Wage, a roof over our heads, accommodation which meets the Decent Home Standard, care from the cradle to the grave and that parking space!   

We simply don't all get what we're entitled to! 

Blaming claimants for not completing forms correctly is not a new phenomenon either so it's not helpful or fair to keep blaming claimants with mental health problems for this second disastrous national reassessment programme!

MW123

@WhatThe

I respectfully differ with you regarding the idea of paying tax on Universal Credit. Although the calculation method may give the impression of a stealth tax, it's important to note that they are not equivalent. 

Poppy's exceptional expertise with the DWP's systems consistently provides reliable and accurate information. I am sincerely grateful for the numerous instances in which Poppy has offered expert assistance to myself and fellow members, skilfully guiding members through their claims. 

My appreciation extends to Poppy for her unwavering dedication, especially as she manages her own disabilities while graciously helping members navigate the intricate DWP system. Poppy, your invaluable support is truly acknowledged, and I extend my heartfelt thanks for the consistent time and effort you devote to assisting us all.

poppy123456

WhatThe, I have no idea what all of that has to do with the earnings taper for UC.

You haven’t explained anything other than misleading information saying DWP tax your earnings. I haven’t blamed anyone for anything either. 

@MW123 thank you for such kind words! 

WhatThe

How is it not equivalent, losing 63% of my earnings???
I'm autistic so a lot of things don't make sense to me.

I agree with your comments about Poppy but I'm in an unusual situation with UC pretending they're nothing to do with DWP, however..

The MIF is only applied to the 'gainfully self-employed' which I was not.
 
Work clearly doesn't pay under this new programme so it has failed and should be scrapped!

WhatThe

How is it not equivalent, losing 63% of my earnings???

I'm autistic so a lot of things don't make sense to me.

I agree with your comments about Poppy but I'm in an unusual situation with UC pretending they're nothing to do with DWP