UC compliance interview.

JaneyJo

Currently going through hell with the dwp. The lovely lady who called re a compliance interview asked for over a years worth of bank statements in 7 days. I am currently sectioned and my dad has been helping out by going to the bank and getting them printed out.
she got them and is querying “why did you take £300 out of an atm in April 2023?” And I will need to see receipts (I can’t remember tbh and I certainly don’t have receipts)
they accused me of having an ISA with thousands in it but now say they know it’s not mine. Despite making me chase banks, they wouldn’t give me acc numbers or bank names.

she is now saying I have committed fraud as my daughters grandparents transferred me money for her school trips and piano lessons (her children can’t go to piano but you’re on benefits and think that’s ok?)

i have one isa with £3k in it from an inheritance that I have always declared and if I’ve done anything wrong it’s going over the £6k for a few months during previous sections.

i explained I was very mentally unwell offered to send her a letter confirming all of this and was told “your health does not preclude you from the rules and it actually looks very bad for you that you feel the need to use it as an excuse”

I’m not. I sent everything they asked for, if I have been overpaid I will pay it all off and accept any penalty. 

She seems to want to hound me, calling while I’m sectioned saying “just admit you got the money for you” it is labelled for my daughter you can then see I spend it as such.

she was infuriated I spent £234 in Sainsbury’s at Christmas (she couldn’t afford to do that)

she’s forbid me from leaving the country to see my mum at Christmas until “she’s done with me”
threatening one call and I can get your bank, credit card and club card statements. (Go ahead it would save me doing it) 
she says she could be watching me and I wouldn’t know this is despite knowing paranoia is one of the major issues with my mental health and when I told her my dad is terminally ill so that’s not helping my situation.. she just said “oh that’s convenient “

she’s a compliance officer as she spoke with my CPN who told her to leave me alone until I’m well enough but she’s now saying she won’t talk to anyone but me.
im at my wits end. Any help would be appreciated 

JaneyJo

I thought as long as I wasn’t saving the money so it would take me over capital limits I was free to spend on what I saw fit. Or at least so as not to be seen to have deprived myself of capital (thousands on frivolous things to take me under the limits) but no, apparently I need to account for every penny spent. 

She wants receipts for things bought with cash from over 6 months ago (at most these things added up to a few hundred pounds) 
doing all this whilst I’m so mentally unwell just seems like cruelty. 

I’ve done nothing wrong (maybe a few pounds over the £6k whilst sectioned but happy to pay it back) but she was talking about years in prison to someone who had just tried to kill themselves.
im sure there are a few good people who work for the dwp but people like this undo all of that.

JaneyJo

I’m on UC (and pip) I’d say over a year maybe £1200. £500 for Xmas same for birthday and they paid £200 towards her piano lessons.
her dad will transfer money at Xmas and birthdays and occasional school trip money. 

Everything given can be seen being spent on what it’s intended for .
i suppose I’m just going to be in big trouble for not declaring this as income.

poppy123456

The money they given you is not treated as income, it will be capital. If the money their dad is giving you is child maintenance then that’s disregarded as income for all means tested benefits anyway. Though it’s still classed as capital. 

If that money took your savings to more than the lower amount of £6,000 then yes it will have affected your UC. There’s a £4.35/month deduction for every £250 or part thereof over £6,000. 

You mention an inheritance which they already knew about. Did that inheritance take your savings to more than £6,000 and then it dropped below that limit? If so then they could be asked questions about what you spent the money, which they can do. 

It’s very highly unlikely that you would be sent to prison. If you did have savings of more than £6,000 that you didn’t report, they may add a fine of about £50 on top
of what you may owe them but nothing more than that.

Its disgusting what that person told you regarding prison and if it was me I would be making a complaint about them! 

JaneyJo

The inheritance was only £3500 and is in a LISA account which I have always declared. A few times looking over my statements if I have been in hospital or sectioned and not paying my bills I may have gone above the £6k but that soon dropped once I caught up with everything. 

She is adamant that ANY cash gifts for my daughter are my income and as such I have committed fraud.
i have complained and my MP has gotten involved but she is till requiring receipts for things as small as £20 I spent back in April or January. 

It truly is a nightmare. She told me it was a benefit investigation but had written to the MP saying it’s a review. I’m so confused and being sectioned means I’m limited as to how I can deal with this, I can’t go to the bank everytime she asks although she now assured me one call to my bank and she can get all my statements going back years… I wish she would.

poppy123456

Danny123 said:

I'm just wondering why they asked for a year's worth of statements 🤔 normally it's 4 months for a general check

It's a compliance interview so they can ask for as many as they need to. General reviews is usually about 4 months.

JaneyJo

The most I think I have ever been over is by about £600 and that was during a time I was sectioned and wasn’t paying my bills, so the benefit money sort of just sat there and obviously I wasn’t paying for shopping or anything. As soon as I was out and caught up it went way down.
im not on housing benefit as I live with family due to my health. 

She quotes legislation numbers at me and says I signed to say I was aware I had to tell them about income, but I was unaware Xmas or birthday gifts were income so I’m hoping they will see I’m stupid more than fraudulent.
the reason they wanted a years worth of statements was she accused me of having far more in an isa than I do but now accepts that was an error. But she is going through my statements one transaction at a time her last IC journal entry was
”whilst I’m sad to here you are sectioned only hospital you still have to comply with dwp rules and as such I suggest if I require further I formation you sign yourself out and get this. Using your health as an excuse doesn’t look good at any level. Regards *******

I truly am not using my health and I cannot sign out even if I wanted to as it just wouldn’t be allowed. My MP has copies of all doctors letters and she’s now referring to this as a review rather than an investigation but she was telling me I was going to prison and my kids would end up in care unless I “admitted what I had done”
it’s honestly been the worst experience of my life.

JaneyJo

The most I had would have been about £6.6k and that was within the assessment period so once the next month rolled round it went down to £5k (this is including my ISA which is a lifetime isa if I withdraw it it’s a risky worth £2.5k not ££3.5k
i will just have to accept I inadvertently broke rules and hope they are lenient with me 

JaneyJo

That should say a thallus worth. 

I have tried explaining to them that a lifetime isa can only be used to buy a house or when you retire if you withdraw early you lose all the interest and pay a 25% penalty on top so I’d be left with about £2k but of course despite sending her the t&cs she doesn’t believe this. 

If I wasn’t sectioned it would be far easier to deal with but at present I’m supposed to be away from stress and she just will not stop

poppy123456

As i advised, gifts such as money is not income, it's capital. For the ISA then what counts is minus the penantly if you withdrew it.

JaneyJo

Thank you to both of you, you have been very helpful and helped ease my mind somewhat 

MW123

@JaneyJo

Your health and well-being should always be the top priority, and it raises ethical concerns that you are being subjected to this situation.

Compliance officers should carry out their duties with fairness and professionalism. If you're in the hospital under a section, it's surprising to me that your medical team hasn't intervened to stop this, as they have the authority to do so. 

Compliance interviews are primarily about gathering information. Since you are not being interviewed under caution, which would imply potential legal action, the current focus is on obtaining facts rather than pursuing court action. 

I strongly recommend that someone advocating for you files a complaint on your behalf using the DWP's complaints procedures. 

Rosie_Scope

Hi @JaneyJo, I'm sorry this is happening to you, it sounds really difficult. As MW123 mentioned above, this doesn't sound like an appropriate response from the compliance officer, but I am by no means an expert on this.

Do you have access to an independent mental health advocate (IMHA) on your ward? Sometimes they can help direct you to the right people or resources to get support, including social workers or people who take on case work like this. 

It might also be worth having another chat to your responsible clinician to see if they'd be able to fight your corner with this compliance officer too, especially if it's having a detrimental impact on your recovery. I really hope things start getting better for you soon, keep us updated.

JaneyJo

There’s no advocate on the ward or CAB visits, there used to be but funding was lost I believe. My psychiatrist wrote a letter detailing how ill I am at present but she refused to allow me to upload it (she’d have to create a task) and when I asked if I should post it I was told it would be ignored . She did say it might come in useful when they determine your prison sentence. At this point she was on speaker phone and my CPN intervened and told her she was out of line. She just reiterated that she will only talk to me, and as I had others on the call she would have to end it.
i want to get this cleared up hence getting my parents to get my bank statements and sending them to her but she just keeps on. “If you admit to me that you’ve been sent money it will look better for you”
i have, yes for my daughter. There are now 2 occasions where my parents sent me money on my birthday that she says is income. 

She knows I need this out of the way to carry on getting better. It feels like a big monster hanging over me and yet she still won’t help me to help her clear up whatever it is.

my CPN heard her say “one call and I get all your financial information, credit cards, bank statements and if you refuse to do as I ask I will send the police to arrest you”
My CPN assured me that yes fraud investigations can do that but she is a compliance officer and even if they did that there are rules to follow.
it’s heightened my paranoia considerably I’ve lost 2 stones in weight and I have never experienced my mental health being this bad.
i think if I was dead she would be at my funeral with a clipboard asking questions.

poppy123456

You will not go to prison and you will not be arrested by the police. I urge you to make a complaint about this person!

Albus_Scope

@JaneyJo I'm so so sorry they've been so unprofessional with you, that's beyond horrible. 
 Please look into an official complaint against them and I hope it doesn't affect your recovery too much.

JaneyJo

She really does enjoy her job. At first she thought my mental health was “too convenient “ and me trying to get out of the compliance check. I must have a crystal ball then as I’ve had MH issues for 30 plus years.
you have to be very I’ll to be admitted onto a ward these days but she was talking about “doesn’t everyone think they have something nowadays”
id love to just close my UC claim and take nothing from them but that’ll send me straight to jail apparently 
i have spoken to some nice people at DWP definitely the minority but nothing like this woman. 

My Pschiatrist suggested sending a message saying I’m too ill to consent to these conversations, I don’t have an appointee as of yet and as such I cannot take any further part in your “review”

but with her saying she would send the police to arrest me I’m terrified. EVERYTIME  my phone rings I get nausea and start to shake and it might not even be her! 

Rosie_Scope

Sorry that's happening @JaneyJo, that sounds awful.

Would your head psychiatrist or CPN perhaps be able to ring the compliance officer or even ask to speak to their manager to reiterate that it's seriously impacting your recovery? Perhaps they could reassign you to a new compliance officer as this one is behaving so inappropriately.

It might also be a good idea to keep a written record of the things that this person has said to you along with the dates in case it comes up in the complaints procedure.

When you say your MP has got involved, were they helpful at all?

JaneyJo

The MP has called and written but it seems is largerly being ignored. So he suggests we make a formal complaint. I’m terrified of doing that though, she’s threatening so many thing and I don’t want her to get angrier with me than she already is.
my main worry is she asks questions, if I don’t know the answer she answers and tells me to agree. I haven’t as that was the one piece of advice my MP really told me was so important. Don’t go along with her suggestions.
i feel like the second I’m out of hospital she will be there. She says she can “watch people covertly and could be watching me right now and I wouldn’t know it” not great for my paranoid thoughts.
i feel like I’m living in a nightmare and I can’t see anyway out. 

Albus_Scope

I agree that you should record all conversations moving forward.  Leave a paper trail so she cannot talk you into anything, or say you agreed when you didn't.  But please do think about the formal complaint. 

WhatThe

JaneyJoy,

Please make plans to go away at Christmas if you want to and can.

That woman is harassing you plain and simple   it's appalling and can't be lawful. Can you record the calls on a voice recorder as evidence of this?   

You'll get better in your own time and way especially with family support so do what's best for you