Hi, I wasn't awarded PIP

LTP

Not sure if this is the right place. I’m a bit lost really. Applied for PIP in October 2023. I’ve just received a letter saying I wasn't awarded anything. Basically calling me a liar and at one point it basically says can drive so you must be fine. Ignoring the fact that for the entirety of the month before my assessment I’d only been able to leave the house and drive twice which I told the assessor. I knew he hadn’t written much when I received a text from PIP ten minutes after my assessment to tell me they had received my report. I don’t have a diagnosis at the moment. I’m fighting to see a neurologist to try and get to the bottom of things but the waiting list is 75 weeks - and that’s the more urgent list. I’m having lots of head pressure and pain that has also caused mobility issues. I’m going to have to have my toilet and sink adapted as well as a level access door due to my mobility issues. I cannot walk without a crutch now and also have to use a leg lifter to get in and out of the car. I spend most of my days in bed. I have a lot more bad days than good days. Even on a good day I have to use a crutch to walk and am very slow. They have completely ignored these adaptions and said there is no proof that I have no issues with mobility and haven’t been diagnosed with anything. That said they OT said nothing other than “problems bending.” Meanwhile in her form she talks about falls and needing a crutch to walk. They said that because I can explain what’s wrong with me I have no cognitive issues. It goes on and on really. There’s more I can go into if needs be but basically I want to know if it’s even worth putting myself through an appeal? I don’t have much energy and I’m suffering a lot and this feels like a huge undertaking. I also don’t have a diagnosis so I feel like they’ll just turn me away and call be a liar just like this PIP form has. I almost feel like I should just cut my losses and give up. So any advice would be most appreciated. Thank you.  

poppy123456

The first step to appeal is to request the Mandatory Reconsideration. (MR) You should put this in writing, stating where and why you think you should have scored those points. Please do not ring them to request it. 

When you filled out the forms if you didn't include a couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you then you should do that now. Also include information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. You have 1 month from the date of the decision to request this. 

A lot of what was written in the decision letter will be standard copy and paste reasons for not awarding points. You do not need a diagnosis for a successful PIP award. Many people claim it without a diagnosis. 

If the reasons for claiming PIP are more physical rather than mental health, cognitive or sensory issues then I wouldn't expect you to score any points for being unable to leave the house. 

 I'd also advise you to have a read of this as it will help to have a little more understanding of the descriptors and what they mean. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

LTP

Hi, thank you for your reply. Is there a reason you say not to call them? I find writing difficult as my hands cramp and my arms get really tired and painful. Could I type things? Then I could minimise the difficulties. Though I’d find speaking easier. My wife actually filled out the PIP form for me as I found it too difficult to write it all down. How do I request the MR without calling them? 

poppy123456

The reason is because when you ring the call centre how do you know they are typing everything you tell them? 

Yes, you can type it or ask your wife to write it for you, like she did with the form. 

LTP said:

How do I request the MR without calling them? 

By putting it in writing as I advised above. The most likely outcome of the MR will be the decision remains the same because only about 23% of decisions change at this stage. 

The more effort you put in now, the less you will need to do for the Tribunal stage, if it gets that far. There's also a form you can fill in here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/challenge-a-decision-made-by-the-department-for-work-and-pensions-dwp

There's also some information here. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration-pip/

Hannah_Alumni

Hello @LTP

I am so sorry you had to go through all that with your assessment. I see Poppy has advised on the PIP side and linked to Citizen's Advice, who can help with the Mandatory Reconsideration process.

I just wanted to check in that you have support around you? I saw you mentioned seeing an OT and waiting for support with a neurologist. Can I ask, you said you are on the more urgent list, but do they have a cancellation list? If you are able to attend an appointment at short notice, it's worth enquiring. Hopefully get you seen quicker!  

LTP

Thank you! Not really. My GP is great but her hands are tied she has done all she can. They don’t have a cancellation list, I did ask but they said there are thousands of people so it’s just not something they can implement. I’m having a whole separate amount of issues around that I might make a post about it to ask for advice elsewhere. 

In terms of this I have been looking at the form linked for MR. Throughout my refusal letter they keep saying I haven’t been diagnosed with back or leg problems so I must not have any issues walking or getting out of the car or using the toilet it says it three times for three separate issues I have. I know poppy mentioned above I don’t need a diagnosis but it mentions it so many times. I’m wondering if I do need have to have a diagnosis.  didn’t think I did but they mention it so many times and specifically say I do not have a diagnosis that now I’m wondering if I do need one. Does anyone know if you are more likely to be refused if you don’t have a diagnosis vs if you have one? 

Do I need to send in the proof I already sent again? Should I send a photo of my blue badge? I’m unsure what to send because I don’t have a letter with a diagnosis I don’t really have anything other than the email from the DFG woman about adapting my house and the blue badge. I gave them my GP and Ot details but I feel like they probably haven’t contacted them given what they’ve said in the refusal. 

poppy123456

Although they mentioned about a diagnosis, PIP is not awarded based on that and never has been. I'd advise you not to focus wholly on the reasons for refusal or the assessment report (if you have a copy) because neither of those will get you a PIP award.

You don't need to send anything that has already been sent and the same applies if it gets to Tribunal. 

A blue badge in my opinion isn't helpful because it doesn't really tell them anything about your health conditions. 

They very rarely contact anyone for any evidence. The onus is on you to prove you qualify, not theirs. Medical evidence isn't vital and if you don't have any then you can't send it. 

My advice here still stands and if you didn't do that previously, you should do that now. 

poppy123456 said:

When you filled out the forms if you didn't include a couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you then you should do that now. Also include information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. You have 1 month from the date of the decision to request this. 

Did you also have a read of the link I posted in a previous comment?

LTP

I did have a look at the links thank you. I did go into details the first time in the form. So did my wife and she wrote a statement saying all she has to do for me and how much I’ve declined and I’m unable to do most things now. They’ve just ignored it all and so has the assessor. I explained I can’t walk without a crutch now and even then I need frequent breaks our car is just outside our house and takes me far too long to reach. I explained about how I’m bed bound a lot of the time because of my head issues and pain and they ignored this. I’m not sure how much more in depth I can do unless I just repeat everything I already said and follow it up with a note that I did say this before but they’ve ignored it. I have a neighbour who said they’d also write a statement if necessary and they also have a ring camera so inadvertently have footage of my walking with my crutch and struggling etc. They’ve even ignored the evidence I did send and claimed it doesn’t say what’s there in black and white. It’s very frustrating and I do feel as thought I’m being penalised because I’m not diagnosed and because I’m competent enough to explain how I feel they have decided I’m fine. 

Hannah_Alumni

@LTP I'm sorry you have been left feeling like you are being penalised for not having a diagnosis. Just to assure you, we have many going through the process who also had to go for Mandatory Reconsideration with and without a diagnosis. And be awarded with and without a diagnosis. In my opinion, it isn't a very consistent system. 

Through the Citizen's Advice link you can help for additional support with writing and submitting the Mandatory Reconsideration if you need it. And don't worry about feeling like you are repeating yourself. Repeat yourself! I understand it's exhausting to do, but someone else will be looking at it. 

LTP

I’ve been looking into everything. It’s difficult as I’ve not been feeling well at all. I’m running out of time though as they sent it and it’s dated the 7th of Feb. I didn’t receive it until the 15th but the 7th is when they’ll take the month from isn’t it? So should I send it recorded delivery tomorrow so I know it definitely gets received on the 6th? So they can’t say I didn’t return it within the month? 

LTP

Oh I thought I had to send it to them within a month or it wasn’t valid? I’m not sure why or how I saw that now as my brains a bit frazzled but I was sure I saw that. 

poppy123456

LTP said:

Oh I thought I had to send it to them within a month or it wasn’t valid? 

No, that's not correct. You have 13 months to request the MR as correctly advised by biblioklept. If you're outside of the 1 month timescale you will need to make sure you give a reason why you didn't request it within that time. If they refuse you can just proceed to Tribunal. 

LTP

Oh ok that’s great to know thank you. Hopefully I’ll get it sent off tomorrow and they’ll receive it on the 6th so I’ll be inside the month. It’s not going to be detailed because I’m just not up to it at the moment but to be honest I’m 99% sure they’ll refuse and I’ll have to go to tribunal anyway. Mostly I want to point out that even though they’ve said six times I haven’t been diagnosed with anything I don’t need to be and then follow up the same things I said in my application that they didn’t read. It’s very frustrating. 

poppy123456

I would say it's unlikely they will receive it by 6th March. Very often it takes a couple of weeks at least for them to add it to the system and it's not treated as arriving until this has happened. Even if you send it for next day delivery, it doesn't mean it's arrived with PIP. It will be signed for by someone from Royal Mail sorting office and not someone from PIP. 

LTP

So does that mean I’ll be penalised either way for it not arriving within the month? What is the best thing to do? 

poppy123456

No because as has been advised, you have 13 months to request it in total. If they refuse you just request the Tribunal. 

LTP

Ok thank you sorry if I’m being annoying just trying to clarify everything so I know what’s best. 

WhatThe

I don’t have much energy and I’m suffering a lot and this feels like a huge undertaking.

LTP, it sounds like none of your evidence was taken into account, only the assessor's report which of course has no medical basis whatsoever.

Assume that DWP doesn't expect you to challenge this (I don’t have much energy and I’m suffering a lot and this feels like a huge undertaking).

Assume that a Tribunal will examine all your supporting evidence and overturn the decision. 

Requesting the MR in writing is just a formality and can be "I refer you to page/paragraph/descriptor... You may get an offer after the MR and still want to appeal. You've done the hardest part already in your application so this part of the process does not need to overwhelm you.

WhatThe

I hope you get an appointment soon with a neurologist.

In the meantime, is there always someone else in the car with you when you drive? It's something to consider.. 
 

LTP

I don’t go out much at all. I’ve unfortunately not been out of bed aside from the bathroom for the past week and a half. When I do go out I will only go it I feel able to drive safely. Mostly I have someone with me. Occasionally I drive alone but only if I feel safe and I always pull over at the slightest change of how I’m feeling. If I didn’t live so remotely I probably wouldn’t drive but without a car we’re trapped unfortunately as there’s no access to public transport. 

Hannah_Alumni

@LTP I am sorry to hear you have been unwell recently. Have you got support around you? I am sorry the access to public transport isn't great where you are. Do you have someone else that can drive? Share the load when you need to pop out? My brother and I used to do one drive there and one drive back.