Pip telephone assessment, asked to touch toes?

lorry88

Hi everyone. My partner just had a telephone assessment, he had a silent stroke and then diagnosed with a benign tumour, a very rare tumour called DNET, affects him badly with seizures and various physical and behavioral symptoms. They have a huge amount of evidence from dr, neurologist, physio.

The assessment took 2 hours, she repeated questions and lots of sneaky questions too. My question to you all is, has anyone ever been asked to touch your toes and touch your head? The evidence is all there but why on earth would an assessor ask a claimant to perform physical actions over the telephone which she can't even see? I found this Bizarre! Anyone else experienced this?

Also she really wanted to know how long it takes him to get dressed. I asked her, are you asking how long it takes with myself helping him and only changing into a tshirt and pair of joggers? I asked twice. She said yes.

I said, with my help and just into a tshirt and joggers it is no more than 10minutes.

Surely, you would focus on the fact support is needed and how long it would take if he did it himself?

Thank you for taking time to read.

Rachel_Scope

Hi @lorry88 and welcome to the community. I can't say that I've been asked to do any physical actions over the phone, it seems strange. They may have asked about him dressing with your help to understand how much help he needs. Assessments can be very stressful, how did you both find it?

lorry88

Thank you and hello!

I just found the phsical actions so odd, I had to ask her to repeat the question because I thought I misunderstood! But no, she then asked if he could touch his head, I thought maybe just a general question but then asked where his hands were and how close to his head right now. It's not funny but I almost chuckled in disbelief.

I have been to tribunal years a go so I am familiar and it was positive and the tribunal was so good with me, to the point they openly said to me I shouldn't even be there, gave me enhanced both and further years. My review was also good.

This assessment, was very lengthy, very repetitive. Which I find strange as before this, dwp phoned and said they would like to ask a couple of questions about the seizures as they felt his claim and evidence could be completed without a full assessment. Which is rare but I could see why as we have so much evidence it's undeniable. But I felt the seuzure questions were text book. She asked how long each seizure is and if he lost consciousness. I tried to explain to her, seizures are complex things, in his case they vary in length, they are daily and it's not just about the seizure but the aftermath of each one that affects him daily. Not even the top neurologists in Southampton could answer is when we asked them (our own neurologists team in local hospital were stuck hence they passed it on to southampton, as the tumour is so rare). But they all confirmed complex daily seizures is the biggest symptom of this particular tumour. It's known to be drug resistant and nearly all cases end up in removal, just to control the seizures. DNET tumours are benign but create terrible seizures.

She said she was hoping to not request an assessment but she doesnt know enough about this tumour and felt out of her depth!

So, along comes the assessment, with another lady who I highly doubt is a neurologist/tumour specialist. Asking questions that I know they will ask to get an idea of how it affects you (it's not about the diagnosis) but some questions were just bizarre and she kept repeating them and then asking him to do physical actions and tell her over the phone. I had already told her he had been at physio that day and struggling and sent in detailed physio reports. Lots of putting words in my mouth too. Asking a question but then answering it for him but her answers were definitely leading hoping he would just say yes but thankfully I could see what she was doing and her answers were not truthful. For example, 'you help him into and out the bath?' But then 'oh so you just help him and grab his arms and lift them up yes? Yes?'

'No. That would hurt him as you already know he cannot lift his arms and has immense pain from the reports of cns damage, what I, physio and neurologist have told you, and that's why I have to help him plus seizures and water don't do well together. This is how I help him.....'

There were quite a few questions that 100% were obviously about something unrelated but absolutely had an ulterior motive to rule out another area if that makes sense too.

I get there are people not being truthful, I do, but the whole way it was done was bizarre, just short of, are you sure you have tumor, maybe it's a headache lol.

These assessors (not all) are totally the wrong people. It's like having Tyson Fury judge Strictly Dancing!

chiarieds

Hi @lorry88 - & welcome to the community. I'm going back a bit (2017) but I was asked to see if I could touch my toes during a face to face assessment. I did so easily, as I have hypermobile joints, & then said it was pointless doing some leg movements she asked for, which she was fine about.

I'm mentioning this, as such movements seem to be standard practice to ask about, & tho odd with a phone assessment, they've just likely remained as questions that can be asked. It didn't make much sense for my 'musculoskeletal' part of the assessment, nor your partners. However, I feel your answers clearly indicated the problems he has.

Despite all the evidence you provided, which clearly showed your partners neurological problems, as you say, it's not about any diagnosis, & is rather a 'functional' assessment.

The question about how long it takes your partner to get dressed is relevant too, as a claimant has to be able to do an activity 'reliably,' which includes in a reasonable amount of time. So, if it's more than twice as long as a person that doesn't have a disability, then this, as well as your support, need to be taken into account.

I've got neurological problems too, but hardly went into these other than to describe the pain, as I doubted she'd understand, as not even many Drs do seem to either. Similarly, as you felt, she was asking from her general knowledge, but likely wouldn't know about the complexity of the sort of seizures your partner experiences, but yet again you described them. Your answers sound absolutely consistent as to his functional ability, so even tho some of the questions felt odd, I'm hoping that all will be well. Btw I'm a long retired physio that's maintained an interest in neurology.

I hope you enjoy being part of the forum, & will kindly let us know how your partner gets on. Best wishes to you both.

lorry88

Thankyou @chiarieds

Great to hear your thoughts. They have all observation reports, medical notes prior and after diagnosis, letters, a diary of everything we kept for the doctor and very detailed information on every aspect of of daily function, what is done to manage, what the consequences are if not done and each aspect in relation to what is happening and if it is timely, safely, consistently, repeatedly or to an acceptable standard. Thankfully, he has a fantastic doctor and physiotherapist who both really care, engage and have got to know him really well.

Just so painful conversing with someone and having to remind them of basic information/rules they should know as a minimum for any claimant and stop them putting their own answers in your mouth before you even reply. Just let the person answer in their words without manipulation or intimidation.

Still, we can't be sure what will happen based on the behaviour or conversation, just have to wait for the report and decision and take it from there once we have it in front of us. You just don't know and speculation just causes stress. Just didn't expect that physical request over the telephone but we still have our humour at least about it, my partner jokingly said after, shall we watch a film tonight on the radio?

Thank you again.

chiarieds

You're very welcome @lorry88 - please remember we're all here for a chat (or a vent) at any time. Great to keep a sense of humour throughout it all 😊