Economic inactivity: welfare and long-term sickness Oral evidence live 3pm 12/11/24
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They been playing secret squirell with us for months they don't want to leak anything as been taken to judicial court is she watching what she says because of that ? Waiting to see how it pans out she's made a few cut throat comments racheal reeves says they will go with tories proposals come on its all been set up for couple years from when sunak said October 2023 the rush onto uc so we have to engage on lady who worked at dwp said you will be given choice to work if doesn't work out can return to bemefit yh right!! And if you don't do this will be reassessed again it's all written in gov.com yh yh by tories ready for labour to do go ahead and this is no mention of pip
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What's horrifying is that they don't already have that. A department that's literally responsible for keeping millions of people alive and yet has no responsibility to ensure it doesn't accidentally or by design starve some of them to death.
What I want to see are some systems to tackle sadistic work coaches who target vulnerable people for sanctions. We know from much anecdotal evidence that many of them target the mentally ill with impossible conditionality to fulfil sanctions targets. It would be a good place to hide a serial killer...
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God wish I could get off this roller coaster to hell Yes for years I worked in care and job centre and some people got off on the power I used to go home crying I worked at retirement home I worked with people with dementia and was assisting another member of staff to lift lady she started screaming he yank her by the arm I'm surprised her shoulder didn't dislocate I was raging I called him out shouting at him reported him I got the sack !! Another place was the biggest scandal it was on pararamaa think that's how you spell it was horrendous place something out of Victorian times that ended up in high court and the guy who owned the place gassed himself outside Broadmoor no lie I was pregnant when working there I left because I had to protect myself and I ended up being a witness against the home working in that field done me in being a big empath feeling peoples energy going home thinking about them and being powerless horrible shocking and they had a guy who had a secret camera and was all on panorama seen my boss the certain members of staff on the hidden camera acting like Hitler
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If the government wants disabled people to work, why can't it make them healthy first?
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Thats too hard for them, instead they activate the cheat mode, and just pretend they fit and healthy.
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Thank you for taking the time, not only to watch all that, but to write it out to keep the community up to date @apple85. I know the effort it takes to watch through those committees sometimes, and to take notes.
I remain hopeful, especially with some of the other signs like actually safeguarding vulnerable clients (why that wasn't already a thing baffles me). If they do follow through with what they are saying and helping, but not forcing, people get healthy enough that they can work that doesn't sound too bad to me. Of course, what they say and what they propose could be quite different. I'll judge the proposals when we finally get to see them.
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Exactly this change criteria and throw you to the lions
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I spent the last few days listening to this. I am not sure if I understand it correctly but to be honest, I found it unnerving. The Lords ( I think they all were) asking the questions from the 3 people who seemed to work for dwp or researchers about long term sick / economically inactive, seemed to have a really negative point a view and a biased view of long term sick and disabled people, judging from the questions they asked.
They asked the question, in different ways, if these people who studied the statistics, if UC claimants saw they could make more money off claiming to be long term sick /disabled as the UC take home amount was a lot less( 400) and would be left alone, if this was why WCA / LWCA claims numbers had gone up so high. They seemed to think this was happening even though the statistics didnt prove this.
They also asked about how many young people claim for mental health issues and long term sick/disabled and they were told it was mainly over 50s - 60s, which they were told was to be expected, that after life long working etc…and the lords didnt seem to like the answer and kept going back to suggesting if they made disability less "financially incentivising" by drastically reducing and making harder to qualify, and put up the UC money to put people off claiming or when they were checking old claims make it harder to qualify if that would help.
They also seemed to think the GP fit note didnt work as they see this as a "self referral" and that a person could say " I have a sore back" and GP writes a sick note and therefore you off forever. They didnt seem to get it that most of these people could be classed as near state pension age. I wondered why they wanted to get rid of the GP fit note now that is the reason. Which is weird cause it is never like that, well I never have experienced that.
I found the whole enquiry into long term inactivity very disheartening. Very out of touch to how we feel and if anything all about money and how much we cost not about people.
Am I understanding this correctly? I am really confused as well as sad that we are seen in a bad light. No one chooses what life throws at them young or old when it comes to long term sick/disabled.
How much of this will influence the governments decisions going forward? What does it mean ? Does anyone know?
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I agree - if these are the experts whose research Liz Kendall et al are leaning on to help formulate goverment policy then it is all pretty unnerving.
The Lords themselves appeared to have a very poor grasp of the application process for UC out of work ill health benefits and PIP - often confusing or conflating the two. They will eventually rubber stamp what ever happens in the Commons.
It was a disheartening Committee meeting to say the least.
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I have seen quotes from a couple of people who were tasked by Kendall to look for solutions, and they admitted their remit is to find solutions to cut the numbers, which is likely why we seeing such one sided stuff, as its not a generic research, its something that by design has to lead to a fixed end goal. They are tasked to find something to justify polices that lead to that end goal. Those of us with memories long enough will remember when ESA was launched by a Labour government, they were boasting it concentrates on what people can do, the same words that are coming out now.
It is akin to a commercial company paying someone to test their products or funding numerous polls (one poll will hit the right result to be published eventually), knowing with confidence it will have favourable results for the advertising campaign.What they probably should just be doing is cutting everyone's weekly amount by XX pounds with the size of the cut higher on higher awards, it would be an honest up front cut that at least doesnt remove anyone from the safety net, however politically it would be very damaging, so they will be looking for a way to implement a cut that gives an impression they still supporting all the right people, and the pretence that those who are no longer in the safety net shouldnt have been there in the first place. Seen it with DLA to PIP, IB to ESA, it will be a tweak of the eligibility.
I had another look at what the Tories proposals were for the WCA, and it was not as bad as I initially thought it would be (although still against my principle of kicking people out of the safety net), physical side of substantial risk was actually going to be left untouched, with a comment to catch those who fall through the mobility safety net, it was clear they were targeting mental health. But we now have a different government so my feeling is anything can happen at this point, all we know is the WCA will be changed, and there is the possibility LCWRA will get work related activity obligations. The priority is to cut the numbers who have no work related obligations.
If Kendall had anyone proper advising her, she would have been told it is possible the DWP can engage and support people without a threat regime, support does not need to be mandatory activity and sanctions, it doesnt need to cut financial support, I seen a comment in the UC migration thread about the DWP charging forward like a bull, and these upcoming reforms, gives me that feeling, they will be targeting something that gives sharp quick results to whatever metrics they want changing.2 -
What are the lords hope your well today
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not sure where you get your information from but they get and can claim a tad more than that per day who would hold the government accountable if they were disbanded
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Can I ask if labour goes with tories changes it will go ahead 2025 and if they make changes will it take awhile to put into legislation sorry hope my messages make sense
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OOh God when you read tories it states new claimants I got used to what they was proposing everything bad farmers it's all sinister it's definitely seeming true your have noting about being happy
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Sorry have noting and be happy
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£361 per day if attended plus travel expenses and subsidised restaurant facilities while i totally agree with you on how they get there position i think without them whoever was in power would make our lives a lot harder than they do now we might as well denounce the monarchy and become communists
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Starner given councils permission to set council tax exactly like giving work coaches say on who can and can't work smart they will take the blame and the goverment can say it wasn't us it's the council it's self
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I’ve had a chance to listen to the full 2hrs of the dwp committee meeting
In all honestly I think everyone should listen for themselves as the media have not reported on it well/without bias (I’m happy to post highlighted screenshots when they are available to highlight - but transcripts are a lot of work and the last time I did it members disbelieved the quotes I typed direct from actual verbal interview……so it would most likely be a waste of time) and it’s very subjective but I personally was not upset by anything said (a couple of parts of over optimistic logic and some realities were passed over) and this is the best Kendall has verbally come across (I’m no fan of hers but I did feel some empathy towards her situation - whether that lasts who knows)
The committee members themselves were excellent (all labour mps apart from 2 libdems and 1 Tory member)
I’ll type the ‘timestamps’ of all the topics covered:
- 0min - pensioner winter payment
- 35min - young ppl and the skills they needed
- 40min - health assessments/wca reforms (how they differ from Tory plan) - too black & white but not acknowledging grey
- 45mins - how dwp are involving ppl with disability in department/co designing policy (not just cutting awards - have double underlined 47mins as something that stood out to me)
- 48mins - the increase in claims based on mental/behavioural health and question on upcoming pip reforms
- 54mins - question about possibility of pip vouchers
- 1hr - job centre plus reforms
- 1hr8mins - asked to outline future plans for universal credit (timms seems to be in charge of leading the uc reforms)
- 1hr10mins - transitional protections for those migrating to uc
- 1hr11min - carers allowance
- 1hr14mins - national living wage (similar system to how benefits amounts are set discussed?). Also the housing benefit rise
- 1hr17mins - lha freeze/housing
- 1hr21min - waspi woman
- 1hr23min - safeguarding of vulnerable claimants
- 1hr26min - past sec’s of state may of broken equality laws by not making adjustments for those with conditions - how will Kendall differ in this
- 1hr31min - benefit cap and 2 child limit
- 1hr37min - fraud and error in the welfare system (£10billion a yr) and the upcoming bill
- 1hr44min - fraud and error bill safeguards
- 1hr48min - benefits of dwp in Scotland and wales & devolved powers
- 1hr51min - devolving powers to local areas so they can provide support to locals directly
the link to the video againhttps://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/a3b3d338-fd31-4b72-ab5f-e5c926544e32
interested to hear your thoughts @Albus_Scope2 -
I don't like the last one some job coach decides if fit for work and council having powers over council tax let's the government off Scott free
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