Wednesday: Statement on Benefits
Comments
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I agree. I’ve spend 3 days in a blind panic spending most of the day in bed and worrying myself sick for absolutely nothing. It’s just cruel and bizarre if I’m honest. I wonder if she was testing the waters with the sun article and then decided against whatever she was going to do as she received backlash. Teaches me a lesson though to just ignore them next time
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Anything between now and the release of official news (the green paper in Spring) is best ignored.
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I’ve edited my last post so check that out but I’ll use my situation as a real life example (giving rounded figures as I don’t want to share personal details)
(I’m going through uc migration so I’ll write this as if I’m already on that and ignore transitional protection as I presume that’s also exempt being a payment associated to esa - if someone could confirm that theory that be great)
so I’m a single adult over the age of 35 that lives alone outside of London: the means my personal benefit cap is £1,413.92 a monthI’m in receipt of uc - so I get the standard allowance (for singles over 25) of £368.74 a month (I also will get lcwra and currently lcwra/lcw elements are exempt when calculating for the benefit cap)
I also get pip (which is disregarded current)
I also get housing benefit in the form of LHA (1 bedroom amount as I’m over 35) of about £488 a month
excluding the disregards the total amounts of benefits I get is about £860 (well below the benefit cap)
—————————————————[[[[[----------------Now it’s very interesting to me that McGovern mentioned the benefit cap as something the dwp could be looking at as it could mean a few things:
now obviously my situation is relatively simple when it comes to the current benefit cap rule - those married, with children and a large lha amount will find themselves much closer to the cap- most likely consideration is labour will do what the tories did a few years back and lower the benefit cap (for example my single adult over 25 living outside of London limit of £1413 a month could drop to £1300) - obviously if you are a single person compared to large family with lots of welfare elements this it less likely to catch you (and good news for me personal if this was a reform option labour chose)
- the second option is that they lessen the amount of disregards (such as lcwra/lcw) so they are included in the benefit cap calculations - for those of us on both disability elements of uc and on pip this could pull us above the cap (for example if I added the lcwra element to my orignal regarded total of £860 that would take me to £1250 a month which is still under the relevant benefit cap for myself of £1413…………however if I also added the transitional protection of esa edp & sdp legacy elements (about £500) that would take my regarded total to £1750 but as I would be over the benefit cap I would have £337 deducted in benefits to take me down to the £1413 cap amount)
- (It’s possible they could start including pip/dla from list of exemptions also but I think that’s very unlikely as those most vulnerable in society who can’t work and claim uc would lose hundreds a month - it would be a massively tasteful move……………..it also would affect those on the max pip award but in work and/or claiming a lesser or no uc award at all)
my opinion is that as the very strong rumor that the dwp want to (in their ideal world) remove uc/pip awards in the form of cash for all those claiming for mental health (and prehaps invisible) conditions there would be zero need for the dwp to undertake option 2 or 3 in terms of the benefit cap (they could however lower the benefit cap and also tighten disability criteria of uc and pip)
for me the lesser of 2 evils is the change of the benefit cap over the tightening of criteria for disability awards.The former (presumably pip is still disregarded) I’d lose about £350 a month but if they change criteria and stop considering MH as criteria for uc and pip awards there’s a chance I’d no longer qualify for any disability awards (as most of my disabilities are technically invisible ) and I’d lose over £1k a month and be put under more pressure by the job centre
The thing is how many disabled people (both physical and behavioural) have you met that have never suffered from mental health?? (Those ppl are either the strongest ppl mentally on the planet or (and forgive my description here, I’ve tried to be sensitive) are so disabled that MH is beyond capacity or they can’t communicate that across)mental health conditions such as anxiety and depression is a part and parcel of being disabled in the uk - and the last 15 years of the gov/dwp attitude towards disabled ppl has made the battle with MH so much the harder
Basically if the dwp discriminates against those who are disabled and have MH issues they are discriminating against 99% of scope members in some form
Myself and my family are already prepping preemptively for the worst by talking with all contacts and family friends that may have knowledge of where I’d stand legally as dwp can summit legislations but they can’t change human rights laws (at least not in and European one) - upper tribunals (not sure it’s them but there are presidents to the following) can force the dwp to alter legislation if the claimant brings a valid case (my parents have already told me they will go to the top as the stress the dwp has caused me over the years has affected their health too and if nothing else they want to send the dwp the middle finger that they can’t bully ppl - I’m lucky to have them as I’m losing the energy to fight after so many years…..they are the only reason I’m still here)In many ways the welfare fight is a solo one - those with support will be more likely to come out the other side
If you haven’t already I’d be trying to add to your contacts and find ppl to put in your corner - that could include finding charities in your area that cover your specific disability, having a meeting with your mp, getting an appointment with your gp and see if they know of anyone out their that could help, make contact with disability organisations such as dpac and black triangle who are probably the most likely place to launch a large scale multi claimant/plaintiff lawsuit or be able to help those thinking of doing something alone. Also ask a friend if they know a friend (and so on) with some legal knowledge that could give advice
The above list isn’t exhaustive - be creative in your plan to fight for your rights (something that Kendall and the dwp seem incapable of and which will handicap them) - if more claimants found ways to take up much more lawsuits as a response it would be an expensive embarrassment for the dwp (one thing the public don’t like - dwp wasting public money on cases they are in the wrong on and are unwinnable)
There’s a saying that ‘it takes a village’ - my advice to all of you is find your village (change the label that the dwp has given us of being easy targets - bullies are easier to deal with in numbers)
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Hi @apple85
Don't know if you saw my post addressed to you above?
Alison McGovern was not talking about the household benefit cap today at all.
She was addressing the issue only of the government welfare spending cap. See link:The welfare cap - House of Commons Library
It was timetabled to be debated in Parliament today and Alison McGovern stood in for Liz Kendall.
@Andi66 asked what the 'benefit cap' was that Alison McGovern was talking about when it was actually the welfare cap she referred to, which is something completely different.
Just thought it best to clear up any confusion.1 -
Oh god - I thought it was the benefit cap McGovern had mentioned and spent an hr writing a post explaining it (I didn’t see the live feed) 😝
Though they may have to look at the benefit cap to address the welfare cap (or initially take a closer look at the 1.2 million additional ppl claiming disability elements since the start of 2020 (that about a 50% increase of claimants in just 5 years and a huge chunk of that for MH reason compared to % of claimants from 2019 and before) - serious question, has any of the 2020+ newbies had a face to face assessment since they started to claim………….its much easier to fib about conditions over the phone and anyone who’s ever had a dwp f2f know that for any sane person it’s a deterrent for even considering sickness benefits as an easy con………………it would be significantly easier and fairer compared to normal dwp strategy of targeting the disabled with scroungers slipping the net but most vulnerable with no support getting caught
Sorry to be brutal but I think there’s a difference between the ‘standard day to day’ MH a person may encounter and those with a disability or illness where MH is more a side effect than the disability itself (affecting treatment and possiblity of a ‘cure’)
(I think the dwp refuse to see the difference between the 2, and some of the disabled community thinks the slightest MH issue entitles the person to full sickness benefits……………………………both extreme viewpoints that neither side will ever win - find a compromise and fund the nhs to get more MH support in health centres, places of work, county council offices and citizens advice - prehaps claimants with MH wouldn’t have exploded after the pandemic if the last gov had launched and invested in a drive like this - the MH epidemic the uk is currently experiencing is in large parts down to the government irresponsibility not noticing or jumping to action what were obviously going to be consequences of 2 lockdowns then cost of living)
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it’s a horrible thought but I was wondering if certain mps were hoping it would push some ppl over the edge and ‘lessen the problem’ before March (once again it’s a terrible thought)
but if you noticed before the autumn budget the papers were posting rumours left right and centre and they never came to pass - the gov leaks all possibilities to test the waters of public opinion and negative backlash will affect follow through.I’m wondering if someone did end up taking up a lawsuit with the dwp this can be used as an example of ministers triggering unnecessary psychological harm of many vulnerable people (reeves could be accused of unnecessary scaremongering which is basically a form of bullying………which actually we’ve had months of form both ministers and media)
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No worries. 😊
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I claim on primarily mental health basis but it does literally incapacitate me. I’ve had it my whole life, effecting me in school, college before I dropped out and then obviously the work place and it runs both side of my family with my dad even having electric shock therapy in the 80s.
I’m approaching my late 20s now but I literally begged for help from the age of 14 all the way up to 21/22 and I literally never got any decent help,some of the ‘therapists’ were honestly atrocious and they’ve only just figured out I likely have autism and adhd. Would it have been a different story if I had early intervention and support as a teenager? Probably if I’m honest.I think that’s what they need to focus on, helping young people struggling in school/college/ even university and support them before they become chronic, then they wouldn’t need to be on benefits as they wouldn’t get to the point where it is disabling. I don’t know just my two pence lol
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I dont understand any of it
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What did you make of it all judie i just dont understand
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I dont understand any of it so when paper comes out thats when it goes through the courts
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@catherine21 don't worry, there is nothing scary. They have agreed to not cut the welfare cap for the coming year so individual payments are not changing for a long while. Nothing new was announced, we're still waiting for Spring/Easter to hear any new plans
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When the green paper comes out is when it starts to be debated in legislation. Courts will not enter the process unless something has been done improperly during the process (such as a consultation not being done properly), or once the legislation has been passed the courts can be brought in if there is an argument that the legislation does indeed clash with other legislation such as the Equality Act for example.
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Green Paper: These are our plans, tell us what you think
Then
White Paper: These are the plans we intend to carry out
Then
The long legal process.
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Thankyou jimm and judie i wont ask again same questions thankyou for evrything i dont know what i would do without you all been a godsend
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Thanks for taking it so well Nightcity. You're right, I was tired and following the DWP classification, not thinking. I'll be a lot more careful in future. Hope you have a good day in the sunshine : )
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It's rather telling that the "Labour" MPs didn't…
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Right about Kirsty Blackman, she was good too!
When they say the "ayes" have it Catherine, that means the bill passes on to the next stage - usually after a count of the votes, you see the tellers coming up and they read out the votes to the speaker. Sometimes they just go on a vote of hands if there's a clear winner, either "aye" (it passes) or "no" it doesn't (ie the bill is kicked out).
Usually each bill goes through several stages (first reading, second reading etc) before it finally becomes law, and votes are taken at the end of each stage.
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