Guest Post: The tangled process of PIP - injustice for disabled people? — Scope | Disability forum
Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.

Guest Post: The tangled process of PIP - injustice for disabled people?

chronicendeavors
chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous

Benefits scrounger. Work shy. Lazy. Dole dosser. All slurs anyone who has had the misfortune of being on benefits may have experienced, to varying degrees. Come with me as I take a look at the injustices that disabled people face in the UK. 

I'm 24 and I started suffering from a multitude of symptoms when I was 22, diagnosed with Hypermobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and – just a week ago - Fibromyalgia, after two soul-destroying years of battles with the NHS, mental health services, over-worked GPs, The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and the local council. But nothing could have prepared me for the hopelessness that grew with every new challenge that relentlessly arose. 

When I became sick, I had to leave work, as chronic pain and fatigue quickly took control of my life. Like many others, I find myself tangled up in the process of applying for Personal Independence Payment (PIP). With the help of my Stonham Homestay support worker, my application was sent, and not long after, I was invited to an assessment and consequently turned down.

Young woman with brown hair looking at camera

Current figures show that 60% of PIP Appeals are successful, and I aim to be part of that figure. For me, the PIP process has been shambles and I look forward to my day in court to ‘prove’ my disability but no amount of back payment will make up for how awful the process has been.

If you ask Joe Bloggs from down the road if he feels that the young adult in a wheelchair, reliant on a carer who ensures basic personal hygiene and nutrition is taken care of, manages their own medication and lives a reasonably fulfilling life, should have his benefits slashed and care hours reduced, hopefully Joe would be horrified, with eyes wide open in horror at the thought of leaving someone stranded for hours a day, incapable of looking after themselves, who is reliant on meal replacement drinks for nutrition rather than actual meals.

Worryingly, the opposite view is on the rise.  To prevent the masses banding together to help the vulnerable, first, you must create a divide; a divide between those reliant on benefits and those who are lucky enough to be able to work.  More often than not, claimants are represented in the media as someone who just might be abusing the system.

For example, take this recent article by The Sun, entitled “Eiffel Liar: Benefits cheat dad-of-five dodges jail despite enjoying strings of holidays after pocketing 15k with claims he was too anxious to work”. The article focuses on Mr Astbury who has mental health illnesses “posing happily” in front of The Eiffel Tower.  He was revealed to be a benefit claimant working on the side as a scrap metal collector.

In this article there is no reference to the considerable difficulties someone would face, trying to hold down an average job with multiple mental health problems. Instead it focuses on why someone with considerable health issues should not go on holiday. Featured is the caption “Astbury argued that because he was earning less than £100 a week he didn’t have to inform the DWP.”

People who claim ESA are allowed to complete permitted work, for less than 16 hours a week, if the total earnings are less than £115.50 a week. In Mr Astbury’s case, he seemingly hadn’t told the DWP about it and this was challenged, and so it should be.  But it’s the way in which it is portrayed in the media that gives momentum to a rising British mentality that everyone on benefits is somehow playing the system.  

Photo of calculator, uncapped pen and budget plan

The fact of the matter is it isn’t a black and white world where a checkbox assessment determines if you are either too sick to work or you are not. For many, holding down a 40 hour a week contract, on top of commuting untold hours a week is unsustainable. 

This expectation leads to a cycle emerging where you are forced to work, you then get laid off, and more often than not workplace discrimination occurs. Your self-esteem then drops again and people become trapped in the benefits system and health issues worsen. In my experience, PIP is supposed to be there to help pay for the extra cost of disability, but instead, I see it being held back exactly when it is needed most. If the correct support was there we would find ourselves gaining self-esteem and perhaps being in a position where we no longer need to be reliant on benefits. 

But for all of my dismay, there are green shoots of promise emerging. We have the amazing ability to collect opinions we would not have had access to previously, were it not for the internet.  We can harness the power of social media, blogs and have access to live, unbiased coverage, without an editor pushing a smear campaign. We can now make our own minds up and have access to a multitude of outlets where we can build our own opinion. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and blogs are a place where many can now find understanding, solidarity and have a platform of their own.

Where do you stand on the benefit reforms? Do you feel that the points I’ve raised are valid? Let me know in the comments below! I’m always ready for a debate.

«13

Comments

  • BethEvans
    BethEvans Member Posts: 1 Listener
    I have Fibro, Pcos, depression and anxiety plus a chronic back problem. I have found working almost impossible and so am relying on Esa. I want to apply for PIP but the people I've spoken to have only said how awful it was and all of them ended up appealing. 
    I either do it and face months of fighting which tbh i don't have the energy to do or live on the small amount you get from Esa alone. 
    As if being disabled wasn't hard enough they want to make it near impossible for us to get enough to survive.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    edited April 2017
    Hi @chronicendeavors, You have only just scratched the surface of what is wrong with people's attitude towards disability. It would be a big improvement if DWP and ATOS/CAPITA could change their attitude and treat us with respect. I was disgusted at the section on the assessor's report entitled "Informal Observations" that allows, or rather encourages them to watch what you do, how you walk, how you're dressed etc before you even get in the room and are introduced to this stranger. You are not told that this will happen (deceipt) and when most of the comments are extremely personal surely this contravenes the human rights regulations. I put in my complaint to ATOS that the first negative comment written about the claimant breaks their customer charter apart from the damage it could cause to someone who already has low self esteem. You wouldn't treat an animal like that. When most of the comments are lies then we come to fraud and I have found cases online of assessor's being reported to the police. If an assessor is so dishonest how can we believe their qualifications or even their name and if ATOS and DWP are allowing this to happen we can't believe them either when we ask for information about the assessor who will be having access to our personal lives, confidential medical records and touching us without gloves to test our strength. This too should be scrapped and Medical evidence used instead as the movements required do not detect neurological conditions or test the amount of pain caused by the movement. Getting back to how we are treated I spoke to one DWP advisor who, without knowing anything about me, was talking to me like I was an idiot. (I chose this word carefully so's not to offend anyone). I let her carry on till the end of the conversation then pointed this out to her. She apologised and hopefully will be more aware of this for her next call.
                  I am waiting now for information from HCPC FOI regarding my assessor's qualifications and I might just find out that it's not only the assessor's who lie to us. ATOS and DWP have both assured me my assessor was properly qualified and are they not lying too when sticking by reports that are clearly not fit for purpose.    
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous


    There is an assault on society led by nasty profit orientated tory vampires.

    Establishment propaganda outlets such as the Sun and the BBC have always perverted the truth so that the average "sun reader" gets the wrong impression of what is going on in our society.

    I dont think that the vast majority of people are falling for the idea that disabled people are scroungers!  The problem lies in the numbers of people that are being affected by these horrendous attacks on the bennefits system and the welfare state.

    There simply arent enough disabled people to fight this horrendously inhumane attack on our civil rights.  Those that there are by virtue of their conditions are often unable to put up a coordinated and consistent fight against this developing situation.

    The massive breakdown of our societal values instigated by the destruction of the family unit and the creation of mass unemployment is now being followed by a dispicable assault on societies vulnerable.

    The worth of a society is measured by how it cares for its vulnerable.  Sadly we afe now seeing the true worth of the society that they are crafting for us to live in.  History has taught us though, that when the people are pushed they are only ever pushed so far before there is an unstoppable cataclysmic change.  The riddiculous errors in policy judgement exercised by the present and previous government have not gone without inflicting massive damage to tne core of our nation......  There will be a catalyst for change.... The rank incompetence of these people and the total lack of humanity means that they are only inches away from a gaffe on the scale of the poll tax....

    Maybe it will all kick off while Michael Howard is squaring up to the Spannish Guardia Civil at Gibralters Pasport gates ha ha ha what a pillock!  Do they imagine that they will turnGibraltar into Theresa Mays Falklands Conflict?  Dear god they are MENTAL!

    France is in the throws of MASSIVE social unrest due to similar instability brought about by poor societal management.  Its going on all over Europe and sadly the rest of the world is often far worse!  Hence all the refugees from the war zones our glorious leaders have helped to create.

    There is a serious undercurrent in our society today.  One that the ruling classes would be extremely foolish to ignore.  If they keep mistreating the people in the way that they have been and are continuing to do so then things will have to change. If change comes it wont be pretty.

    Far better that they ease off and rectify the damaging internal mistakes and reel their neck back in from wars abroad that we are forced into by the USA.

    Meanwhile the Thatcherite mantra of "Im alright Jack" will propell people forward until apathy will no longer quell the discontent.

    "YOU CANT KID ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME!"

    Give back all the TAX MONEY thats been robbed by your banking and corporate bedfellows you TORY VAMPIRES.  Stop ROBBING OUR CHILDREN AND OUR DISABLED!


    Thank you for such a detailed comment! You make very gold and valid points. Our core values are being threatened and the masses distracted as the Tories create chaos. I can't wait for the change haha
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous

    BethEvans said:

    I have Fibro, Pcos, depression and anxiety plus a chronic back problem. I have found working almost impossible and so am relying on Esa. I want to apply for PIP but the people I've spoken to have only said how awful it was and all of them ended up appealing. 
    I either do it and face months of fighting which tbh i don't have the energy to do or live on the small amount you get from Esa alone. 
    As if being disabled wasn't hard enough they want to make it near impossible for us to get enough to survive.


    @BethEvans I understand your position. I would recommend going for it with the help of a local disability advocacy group. They'll probably make you go to a tribunal but it's kinda good as the panel is made up of a disabled person and two medical professionals. I hope it all goes well for you! X 
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous


    The way PIP id designed, makes no sense at all. I was assessed by a nurse. She sat there and asked me for a piece of paper which is 9 years old. (I was told on another forum, this means it's out of date) I explained I don't have it; but stated there's a letter from my GP backing up that I'm on the partial sight register. She told me he (GP) must be lying then. Oh of course he is! He has access to that piece of paper and can carry out that simple  testwhich would back up the fact that I'm registered as partially sighted. (or eligible to be on the register)

    I had a friend of mine with me at my assessment, which took place at home. My friend doesn't know a huge amount about my disabilities. He sat there after I talked and asked to say something. He said that I don't quite talk properly, (I can't remember why; but there's a reason I don't pick up on this) I take things literally and he explained some other issues I have in relation to my Autism.

    She ignored most things I said. She claimed I have no memory difficulties. But she never tested my memory; so how can she know that/ She claimed I have no concentration difficulties. How can she know that? I apparently made eye contact. How can she know that when I wear dark glasses, (I was once asked by a 5 year old whether I can see him - that's how dark they are) my eyes constantly move and I can't physically look at you? I tend to (unintentionally) look behind you.

    I mentioned that I go my parents and it's the only way I can get a cooked meal that isn't a ready meal. (or mum will come up to mine and do a few bits for me) It was assumed I have no issues at all planning an unfamiliar journey. I used to live in my parents house... It's a 15 minute journey by bus. Not a 3 hour journey to another county.

    It was assumed for some utterly bizarre reason that because I can cook a pizza, I can cook a simple meal. I struggle with some microwave meals that are more complex than "put in microwave for 5 minutes and leave to stand for 1 minute".

    I told them I use an alarm and a dosette box for my medication. She wrote that and scored me 0 on that part.

    She assumed for some odd reason that because I use Facebook, I have no problems socalising. I'm trying to remember the last time I socialised that wasn't Skype where I didn't walk out because I couldn't cope with the noise.

    She got one thing right and made a lot of assumptions that physically can't be true in the slightest. I'm not even sure she can tell you what half of my conditions are. Actually, I know she can't because she asked me what Hyperacusis was.

    Her body language also told me she didn't believe me. If you're going to make me out to be a liar, whilst also being a bloody liar, don't make it so fricking obvious.

    My safety was ignored on absolutely everything. I've lost count of the amount of times I've almost been run over, overdosed, (accident) burnt myself, etc.

    I used to receive mid rate care and lower mobility. Under PIP, I got nothing. I asked to get it looked at again, I got standard care (1 point off enhanced, which I'm sure was done on purpose) and enhanced mobility. Ridiculous.

    I can't understand how anyone can make an assessment of your disabilities over an hour's assessment. The only thing she got right was that I can walk over 200m. She got everything else wrong. Most odd that my parents and friend (who was present at the assessment) agree on my difficulties but have never discussed my difficulties. The assessor disagrees. My friend only taught for 30 odd years and his background was in communication. So whilst he doesn't know much about Autism, he is well aware of my severe communication difficulties, which Atos claim are non-existent.


    Urgh @Nystagmite I gotta admit reading your experience made me so angry! It hits close to home with mine. I plan on doing a follow up once the tribunal is over with all the details like your post, but for now I can't as I dont want to mess up the trial. I'm glad you have it sorted now and the one point is outrageous! 
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous

    wildlife said:

    Hi @chronicendeavors, You have only just scratched the surface of what is wrong with people's attitude towards disability. It would be a big improvement if DWP and ATOS/CAPITA could change their attitude and treat us with respect. I was disgusted at the section on the assessor's report entitled "Informal Observations" that allows, or rather encourages them to watch what you do, how you walk, how you're dressed etc before you even get in the room and are introduced to this stranger. You are not told that this will happen (deceipt) and when most of the comments are extremely personal surely this contravenes the human rights regulations. I put in my complaint to ATOS that the first negative comment written about the claimant breaks their customer charter apart from the damage it could cause to someone who already has low self esteem. You wouldn't treat an animal like that. When most of the comments are lies then we come to fraud and I have found cases online of assessor's being reported to the police. If an assessor is so dishonest how can we believe their qualifications or even their name and if ATOS and DWP are allowing this to happen we can't believe them either when we ask for information about the assessor who will be having access to our personal lives, confidential medical records and touching us without gloves to test our strength. This too should be scrapped and Medical evidence used instead as the movements required do not detect neurological conditions or test the amount of pain caused by the movement. Getting back to how we are treated I spoke to one DWP advisor who, without knowing anything about me, was talking to me like I was an idiot. (I chose this word carefully so's not to offend anyone). I let her carry on till the end of the conversation then pointed this out to her. She apologised and hopefully will be more aware of this for her next call.
                  I am waiting now for information from HCPC FOI regarding my assessor's qualifications and I might just find out that it's not only the assessor's who lie to us. ATOS and DWP have both assured me my assessor was properly qualified and are they not lying too when sticking by reports that are clearly not fit for purpose.    


    @wildlife a great point you make! I was unfortunately hindered by a character limit, otherwise I'd have definitely mentioned this. I have pots, eds and fibro, not to mention severe mental health problems. All of these are invisible yet the whole decision was based on these informal observations! And that I had no conditions diagnosed at the time, although I'd be been sick and off work for over a year when I applied. Never mind also it's supposed to be about symptoms not diagnosis bit there we go. 

    Well done for fighting back! The injustice makes me sick. 
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I'm on my third Cancer Grade 3, HER 2 positive Grade three.. I also am Palliative, whilst in hospital Feb 16 with MSSA ( cousin of MRSA ) which I caught having a Hickman line fitted I recieved notification that my PIP was being stopped after a " Health Proffessional" assessment in January.. 3 days after a mastectomy where five stitches burst whilst being put through standard motability movements by her. She claimed NO steps to house.. 2 being there since 1952 when built, she claimed I answered the door.. My 28yr old daughter answered the door.. she claimed I jumped up to fetch my ID, I did NO jumping 3 days after a mastectomy!!! Stephanie fetched my purse.. she claimed I sailed through exercises for mobility, I was driven 3 hrs later to hospital for 5 burst stiches!!!!. ALL in ALL a " Health PROFESSIONAL, with NO medical training standard Jackanory opening!!!!.
    The best bits........
    i had to have my aggressive chemo every third Friday, day 4 after, 5 days of bone marrow replacement, I was allededgley contacted in June by phone for 3 days to say " we are awarding you your PIP back" BECAUSE I was on 5 days of Bone marrow replacement I didn't answer my landline, I knew NOTHING, I wasn't sent a letter SO they STOPPED it again as I didn't agree to allowing re-instatement!!!!!!!!
    SOOOO I appealed to first tier.. I was told " Dis-allowed.
    SOOOOI I appealed to 2nd tier.. I was told " Dis-allowed because you should appeal on law, you appealed using FACTS!!.
    SOOOO I appealed to the High court in London, by this time I had spoken to a MacMilan solicitor who said " you don't stand a chance, it is so hard to get an appeal with the 3rd tier, almost impossible, you should have come to us sooner... well two days later I was allowed a hearing with the 3rd tier, who found the 1st and 2nd had erred on 4 points of law!!!!.
    i started to receive letters saying Denise Margaret Ellis V Secretary of State, it seems this person had no option to agree with little old me and a Judge in London so I had to go BACK to the first tier court to explain my outrage and why I'd bothered 3 Judges and he'd bothered the Secretary of State.
    i went 20th January in front of A Judge, A Doctor, A disability expert AND a solicitor for the Secretary of State, for 2hrs I was beasted, called a liar e.g. " The Judge.. their is NO WAY you came out of hospital the same day as a Mastectomy"... just shows how out of touch rich people in BUPA are!!
    Anyway I felt like I'd been stripped naked and beaten with my own shoe!! NEVER again, will I stand on a principle with the truth. 
    My 06 Cancer put me out of the Prison Service, I re trained to be a sign language tutor, these current Two Cancers have also taken that away from me, I lost my own home after using my £12,000 savings paying for it NO financial assistance came my way from the government even having a daughter who caught Pneumoccocal Meningitis in Hospital as a Prem baby..being left with Frontal love brain damage, Chronic Epilepsy SUDEP alert attached, Chronic Lung Disease, Learning Difficulties, Autism.
    For someone who's never made a habit of claiming off the system, who's always paid into that system this past 13 months has been an eye opening experience, I though I'd seen and heard it all in a Cat A/B Prison over 12 years.. NEVER have I seen such a corrupt system at work up close.. I feel violated having been through that system, if it wasn't for that Judge at the High court having a Moral compass and up-holding his oath to the Court I would NEVER have had my award re-instated 13 months later.....
    By the way, nearly 4 weeks after my 4th court appearance I STILL HAVENT HAD ANY CORRESSPONDENCE OR RECIEVED 13 MONTHS BACK PAY!!!!!!!!!

  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering






    The way PIP id designed, makes no sense at all. I was assessed by a nurse. She sat there and asked me for a piece of paper which is 9 years old. (I was told on another forum, this means it's out of date) I explained I don't have it; but stated there's a letter from my GP backing up that I'm on the partial sight register. She told me he (GP) must be lying then. Oh of course he is! He has access to that piece of paper and can carry out that simple  testwhich would back up the fact that I'm registered as partially sighted. (or eligible to be on the register)

    I had a friend of mine with me at my assessment, which took place at home. My friend doesn't know a huge amount about my disabilities. He sat there after I talked and asked to say something. He said that I don't quite talk properly, (I can't remember why; but there's a reason I don't pick up on this) I take things literally and he explained some other issues I have in relation to my Autism.

    She ignored most things I said. She claimed I have no memory difficulties. But she never tested my memory; so how can she know that/ She claimed I have no concentration difficulties. How can she know that? I apparently made eye contact. How can she know that when I wear dark glasses, (I was once asked by a 5 year old whether I can see him - that's how dark they are) my eyes constantly move and I can't physically look at you? I tend to (unintentionally) look behind you.

    I mentioned that I go my parents and it's the only way I can get a cooked meal that isn't a ready meal. (or mum will come up to mine and do a few bits for me) It was assumed I have no issues at all planning an unfamiliar journey. I used to live in my parents house... It's a 15 minute journey by bus. Not a 3 hour journey to another county.

    It was assumed for some utterly bizarre reason that because I can cook a pizza, I can cook a simple meal. I struggle with some microwave meals that are more complex than "put in microwave for 5 minutes and leave to stand for 1 minute".

    I told them I use an alarm and a dosette box for my medication. She wrote that and scored me 0 on that part.

    She assumed for some odd reason that because I use Facebook, I have no problems socalising. I'm trying to remember the last time I socialised that wasn't Skype where I didn't walk out because I couldn't cope with the noise.

    She got one thing right and made a lot of assumptions that physically can't be true in the slightest. I'm not even sure she can tell you what half of my conditions are. Actually, I know she can't because she asked me what Hyperacusis was.

    Her body language also told me she didn't believe me. If you're going to make me out to be a liar, whilst also being a bloody liar, don't make it so fricking obvious.

    My safety was ignored on absolutely everything. I've lost count of the amount of times I've almost been run over, overdosed, (accident) burnt myself, etc.

    I used to receive mid rate care and lower mobility. Under PIP, I got nothing. I asked to get it looked at again, I got standard care (1 point off enhanced, which I'm sure was done on purpose) and enhanced mobility. Ridiculous.

    I can't understand how anyone can make an assessment of your disabilities over an hour's assessment. The only thing she got right was that I can walk over 200m. She got everything else wrong. Most odd that my parents and friend (who was present at the assessment) agree on my difficulties but have never discussed my difficulties. The assessor disagrees. My friend only taught for 30 odd years and his background was in communication. So whilst he doesn't know much about Autism, he is well aware of my severe communication difficulties, which Atos claim are non-existent.




    Urgh @Nystagmite I gotta admit reading your experience made me so angry! It hits close to home with mine. I plan on doing a follow up once the tribunal is over with all the details like your post, but for now I can't as I dont want to mess up the trial. I'm glad you have it sorted now and the one point is outrageous! 


    I'm sure I gave them enough evidence so that I should score at least 20 points on care. I'm now in the **** situation of my needs have changed, which you're meant to inform them of. But because of how inconsistent they are, there's no way of knowing how it'll go.
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous

    DeeDeex4 said:

    I'm on my third Cancer Grade 3, HER 2 positive Grade three.. I also am Palliative, whilst in hospital Feb 16 with MSSA ( cousin of MRSA ) which I caught having a Hickman line fitted I recieved notification that my PIP was being stopped after a " Health Proffessional" assessment in January.. 3 days after a mastectomy where five stitches burst whilst being put through standard motability movements by her. She claimed NO steps to house.. 2 being there since 1952 when built, she claimed I answered the door.. My 28yr old daughter answered the door.. she claimed I jumped up to fetch my ID, I did NO jumping 3 days after a mastectomy!!! Stephanie fetched my purse.. she claimed I sailed through exercises for mobility, I was driven 3 hrs later to hospital for 5 burst stiches!!!!. ALL in ALL a " Health PROFESSIONAL, with NO medical training standard Jackanory opening!!!!.
    The best bits........
    i had to have my aggressive chemo every third Friday, day 4 after, 5 days of bone marrow replacement, I was allededgley contacted in June by phone for 3 days to say " we are awarding you your PIP back" BECAUSE I was on 5 days of Bone marrow replacement I didn't answer my landline, I knew NOTHING, I wasn't sent a letter SO they STOPPED it again as I didn't agree to allowing re-instatement!!!!!!!!
    SOOOO I appealed to first tier.. I was told " Dis-allowed.
    SOOOOI I appealed to 2nd tier.. I was told " Dis-allowed because you should appeal on law, you appealed using FACTS!!.
    SOOOO I appealed to the High court in London, by this time I had spoken to a MacMilan solicitor who said " you don't stand a chance, it is so hard to get an appeal with the 3rd tier, almost impossible, you should have come to us sooner... well two days later I was allowed a hearing with the 3rd tier, who found the 1st and 2nd had erred on 4 points of law!!!!.
    i started to receive letters saying Denise Margaret Ellis V Secretary of State, it seems this person had no option to agree with little old me and a Judge in London so I had to go BACK to the first tier court to explain my outrage and why I'd bothered 3 Judges and he'd bothered the Secretary of State.
    i went 20th January in front of A Judge, A Doctor, A disability expert AND a solicitor for the Secretary of State, for 2hrs I was beasted, called a liar e.g. " The Judge.. their is NO WAY you came out of hospital the same day as a Mastectomy"... just shows how out of touch rich people in BUPA are!!
    Anyway I felt like I'd been stripped naked and beaten with my own shoe!! NEVER again, will I stand on a principle with the truth. 
    My 06 Cancer put me out of the Prison Service, I re trained to be a sign language tutor, these current Two Cancers have also taken that away from me, I lost my own home after using my £12,000 savings paying for it NO financial assistance came my way from the government even having a daughter who caught Pneumoccocal Meningitis in Hospital as a Prem baby..being left with Frontal love brain damage, Chronic Epilepsy SUDEP alert attached, Chronic Lung Disease, Learning Difficulties, Autism.
    For someone who's never made a habit of claiming off the system, who's always paid into that system this past 13 months has been an eye opening experience, I though I'd seen and heard it all in a Cat A/B Prison over 12 years.. NEVER have I seen such a corrupt system at work up close.. I feel violated having been through that system, if it wasn't for that Judge at the High court having a Moral compass and up-holding his oath to the Court I would NEVER have had my award re-instated 13 months later.....
    By the way, nearly 4 weeks after my 4th court appearance I STILL HAVENT HAD ANY CORRESSPONDENCE OR RECIEVED 13 MONTHS BACK PAY!!!!!!!!!



    @DeeDeex4 I'm so sorry that you've gone through what you have ! The state has failed you when you needed them. It is despicable that you are having to go through this - your story along with the others on here makes me want to take atos, capita & DWP to court. I'm on 9 months and counting. Terrified as it's bloody awful we have to go to COURT to 'prove' our disability.
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous












    The way PIP id designed, makes no sense at all. I was assessed by a nurse. She sat there and asked me for a piece of paper which is 9 years old. (I was told on another forum, this means it's out of date) I explained I don't have it; but stated there's a letter from my GP backing up that I'm on the partial sight register. She told me he (GP) must be lying then. Oh of course he is! He has access to that piece of paper and can carry out that simple  testwhich would back up the fact that I'm registered as partially sighted. (or eligible to be on the register)

    I had a friend of mine with me at my assessment, which took place at home. My friend doesn't know a huge amount about my disabilities. He sat there after I talked and asked to say something. He said that I don't quite talk properly, (I can't remember why; but there's a reason I don't pick up on this) I take things literally and he explained some other issues I have in relation to my Autism.

    She ignored most things I said. She claimed I have no memory difficulties. But she never tested my memory; so how can she know that/ She claimed I have no concentration difficulties. How can she know that? I apparently made eye contact. How can she know that when I wear dark glasses, (I was once asked by a 5 year old whether I can see him - that's how dark they are) my eyes constantly move and I can't physically look at you? I tend to (unintentionally) look behind you.

    I mentioned that I go my parents and it's the only way I can get a cooked meal that isn't a ready meal. (or mum will come up to mine and do a few bits for me) It was assumed I have no issues at all planning an unfamiliar journey. I used to live in my parents house... It's a 15 minute journey by bus. Not a 3 hour journey to another county.

    It was assumed for some utterly bizarre reason that because I can cook a pizza, I can cook a simple meal. I struggle with some microwave meals that are more complex than "put in microwave for 5 minutes and leave to stand for 1 minute".

    I told them I use an alarm and a dosette box for my medication. She wrote that and scored me 0 on that part.

    She assumed for some odd reason that because I use Facebook, I have no problems socalising. I'm trying to remember the last time I socialised that wasn't Skype where I didn't walk out because I couldn't cope with the noise.

    She got one thing right and made a lot of assumptions that physically can't be true in the slightest. I'm not even sure she can tell you what half of my conditions are. Actually, I know she can't because she asked me what Hyperacusis was.

    Her body language also told me she didn't believe me. If you're going to make me out to be a liar, whilst also being a bloody liar, don't make it so fricking obvious.

    My safety was ignored on absolutely everything. I've lost count of the amount of times I've almost been run over, overdosed, (accident) burnt myself, etc.

    I used to receive mid rate care and lower mobility. Under PIP, I got nothing. I asked to get it looked at again, I got standard care (1 point off enhanced, which I'm sure was done on purpose) and enhanced mobility. Ridiculous.

    I can't understand how anyone can make an assessment of your disabilities over an hour's assessment. The only thing she got right was that I can walk over 200m. She got everything else wrong. Most odd that my parents and friend (who was present at the assessment) agree on my difficulties but have never discussed my difficulties. The assessor disagrees. My friend only taught for 30 odd years and his background was in communication. So whilst he doesn't know much about Autism, he is well aware of my severe communication difficulties, which Atos claim are non-existent.






    Urgh @Nystagmite I gotta admit reading your experience made me so angry! It hits close to home with mine. I plan on doing a follow up once the tribunal is over with all the details like your post, but for now I can't as I dont want to mess up the trial. I'm glad you have it sorted now and the one point is outrageous! 




    I'm sure I gave them enough evidence so that I should score at least 20 points on care. I'm now in the **** situation of my needs have changed, which you're meant to inform them of. But because of how inconsistent they are, there's no way of knowing how it'll go.


    I provided loads aswell but that made no difference. I have the exact same problem, my symptoms change hourly and a new thing can crop up at any moment. I'd be on the phone constantly...makes no sense for fluctuating conditions
  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering




















    The way PIP id designed, makes no sense at all. I was assessed by a nurse. She sat there and asked me for a piece of paper which is 9 years old. (I was told on another forum, this means it's out of date) I explained I don't have it; but stated there's a letter from my GP backing up that I'm on the partial sight register. She told me he (GP) must be lying then. Oh of course he is! He has access to that piece of paper and can carry out that simple  testwhich would back up the fact that I'm registered as partially sighted. (or eligible to be on the register)

    I had a friend of mine with me at my assessment, which took place at home. My friend doesn't know a huge amount about my disabilities. He sat there after I talked and asked to say something. He said that I don't quite talk properly, (I can't remember why; but there's a reason I don't pick up on this) I take things literally and he explained some other issues I have in relation to my Autism.

    She ignored most things I said. She claimed I have no memory difficulties. But she never tested my memory; so how can she know that/ She claimed I have no concentration difficulties. How can she know that? I apparently made eye contact. How can she know that when I wear dark glasses, (I was once asked by a 5 year old whether I can see him - that's how dark they are) my eyes constantly move and I can't physically look at you? I tend to (unintentionally) look behind you.

    I mentioned that I go my parents and it's the only way I can get a cooked meal that isn't a ready meal. (or mum will come up to mine and do a few bits for me) It was assumed I have no issues at all planning an unfamiliar journey. I used to live in my parents house... It's a 15 minute journey by bus. Not a 3 hour journey to another county.

    It was assumed for some utterly bizarre reason that because I can cook a pizza, I can cook a simple meal. I struggle with some microwave meals that are more complex than "put in microwave for 5 minutes and leave to stand for 1 minute".

    I told them I use an alarm and a dosette box for my medication. She wrote that and scored me 0 on that part.

    She assumed for some odd reason that because I use Facebook, I have no problems socalising. I'm trying to remember the last time I socialised that wasn't Skype where I didn't walk out because I couldn't cope with the noise.

    She got one thing right and made a lot of assumptions that physically can't be true in the slightest. I'm not even sure she can tell you what half of my conditions are. Actually, I know she can't because she asked me what Hyperacusis was.

    Her body language also told me she didn't believe me. If you're going to make me out to be a liar, whilst also being a bloody liar, don't make it so fricking obvious.

    My safety was ignored on absolutely everything. I've lost count of the amount of times I've almost been run over, overdosed, (accident) burnt myself, etc.

    I used to receive mid rate care and lower mobility. Under PIP, I got nothing. I asked to get it looked at again, I got standard care (1 point off enhanced, which I'm sure was done on purpose) and enhanced mobility. Ridiculous.

    I can't understand how anyone can make an assessment of your disabilities over an hour's assessment. The only thing she got right was that I can walk over 200m. She got everything else wrong. Most odd that my parents and friend (who was present at the assessment) agree on my difficulties but have never discussed my difficulties. The assessor disagrees. My friend only taught for 30 odd years and his background was in communication. So whilst he doesn't know much about Autism, he is well aware of my severe communication difficulties, which Atos claim are non-existent.








    Urgh @Nystagmite I gotta admit reading your experience made me so angry! It hits close to home with mine. I plan on doing a follow up once the tribunal is over with all the details like your post, but for now I can't as I dont want to mess up the trial. I'm glad you have it sorted now and the one point is outrageous! 






    I'm sure I gave them enough evidence so that I should score at least 20 points on care. I'm now in the **** situation of my needs have changed, which you're meant to inform them of. But because of how inconsistent they are, there's no way of knowing how it'll go.




    I provided loads aswell but that made no difference. I have the exact same problem, my symptoms change hourly and a new thing can crop up at any moment. I'd be on the phone constantly...makes no sense for fluctuating conditions


    I'm in the same situation. I've also had to stop using my hearing aid as well. But it should have been obvious from the evidence I provided, I should have scored more points on that question. But the assessor's argument was I didn't ask for anything to be repeated. Yes, because you were sat right next to me. I gave at least 2 examples of my communication difficulties as well. But no, that one hour where I had a good day, went against me. 
  • FeistyFerret
    FeistyFerret Member Posts: 3 Listener
    Thank you for sharing your story. 
    I have EDS too and fought two tribunals with mountains of evidence to get my PIP points....I know I'll have to go through it all again in 2020 as my condition is degenerating quickly and they only gave me 5 years! 

    The tribunal panel said to my face I had enhanced care needs BUT needed more evidence for my mobility...I've had three at home assessors in 9 months and all of them contradicted each other. 
    18months later they finally awarded 24 daily living and 16 mobility points.....there was humiliation, desperation, food bank slips and SO MUCH LYING by DWP employees it almost killed my spirit..
    The government really does seem to have a nasty agenda against disabled people.

    Thank you again for sharing, it's comforting to know I'm not fighting alone!
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    My heart goes out too you, it's not  enough to have a disability too cope daily with,  the DWP put you through a meat grinder to add insult to injury.
    i spoke to a ladies husband about my case as she had had a first tier appointment a few weeks prior, the husband said " I think the judges are so harsh because their fed up with all these cases going before them"... 
    If that's so, isn't it upto the government to put in place a proper Educated team learned in medical/disability causation, actually reading the medical evidence, calling on only the persons records rather than sending a person with NO medical training and acting on THEIR opinion rather than fact from Medical specialists.
    are these DWP representatives reprimanded for the lies they put on a claim form?? I can guarantee we would be dealt with making false claims. 
    Why are the DWP free to get away with all this? It makes me so angry.
    Advocates for the disabled should be in place... I'd stand up for them.
    wishing you well

  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering
    I complained to both Atos and DWP. I was told the nurse knows what she's doing. Oh, you mean she knows she's lying. DWP haven't responded. 

    If you read my report, there's a lot of contradictions. The person who made the final decision, appeared to have just read the pages where the points were and agreed with that.
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    That's exactly the same as mine.. 2 courts IGNORED the points of lies told,  the Supreme Court judge did not, in fact because of the lies they erred on 4 points of law, the judge said it has not been helped the Secretary of State has remained silent!! Back at the first tier the judge brushed me off by saying " well she didnt say that ... she implied it!!!! 
    You are going too have to stay strong with this, they want you too fold.. it is too easy for false claims too get through, the genuine pay for that error, the supreme judge read my file from the previous 3 years that showed and proved this person on Jan 16 had had too have lied as no improvement ( other than a new brain growing)!!!! Could have happened
    Discusting people
  • chronicendeavors
    chronicendeavors Member Posts: 21 Courageous


    Thank you for sharing your story. 
    I have EDS too and fought two tribunals with mountains of evidence to get my PIP points....I know I'll have to go through it all again in 2020 as my condition is degenerating quickly and they only gave me 5 years! 

    The tribunal panel said to my face I had enhanced care needs BUT needed more evidence for my mobility...I've had three at home assessors in 9 months and all of them contradicted each other. 
    18months later they finally awarded 24 daily living and 16 mobility points.....there was humiliation, desperation, food bank slips and SO MUCH LYING by DWP employees it almost killed my spirit..
    The government really does seem to have a nasty agenda against disabled people.

    Thank you again for sharing, it's comforting to know I'm not fighting alone!

    @FeistyFerret Goodness me it is terrible how much strain they put on disabled people. I've had to stop doing all hobbies as a result, my interest in things has faded - thus leading to further health complication. Sitting indoors stewing on injustice is not good for mental or physical health!

    I'm really glad you've got it sorted for now. Hopefully by 2020 PIP will be a distant memory that is looked upon with the distaste it deserves. Feel free to find me on the social medias if you ever want to talk :) I try to be an open ear.

  • NickT
    NickT Member Posts: 6 Listener
    From the evidence that you show it seems that it is a general rule to reject PIP applications out of hand and only confirm them after people have gone through the appeals process. i have seen this many times when dealing with government departments like HMRC VAT etc. We have to stay strong and force them to do the work.
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Agreed but.. do the job properly first time saves money, too send out these " Health Care Proffesionals" ( with NOT one ounce of medical training AND giving them licence too lie mislead imply is costing millions of wasted money... THEN you get a first tier panel too hear the case, who totally ignore medical evidence from specialists and only look to the fictitious inconsistencies of the alleged " Health Care Proffesional".. then the Second tier panel who don't look at anything and send you a letter saying " you have appealed using facts, you need to appeal using POINTS OF LAW" ( they have the worst waste of tax payers funds possible) then you have to appeal to a superior court, one Judge paid hundreds and thousands a year to do the job of ONE IMPARTIAL PERSON looking to Medical FACTS and predictability to outcomes is mind boggling... if facts are not presented correctly by " health Care Proffesional" points of law will be applied incorrectly!! It's odvious... these people are put in place as the proverbial " spanner" in the disabled works... they are used to intimidate, bully mislead the already fragile mind body and sole of an already tired sick and mentally exhausted human being that wouldn't wish their condition on their worst enemy!!!! ( I personally) would make an exception for the Secretary of State). But the absolute worst of all of this is THE SECRETARY OF STATE and ALL of those below him KNOW that this is happening.. how? ... because that's what they were with training EMPLOYED TO DO at the cost to the very people who paid into the system to help them should the unforeseen happen.. YES, we've paid for this injustice to be done to us, ironic isn't it?

Brightness

Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.