Guest Post: The tangled process of PIP - injustice for disabled people?

bendigedig

@chronicendeavors, I hope that you dont mind me including this post here?  I would realy like to try and do somthing about all of this.

Hi all,

Inspired by this thread and the countless other relevant and somtimes heartbeaking posts relatng to the injustices of the PIP system, I have started a seperate thread asking people to record the extent that the PIP process has negatively affected their health.

My hope is that if enough people can contribute to this thread relating to the negative effects of PIP, I (hopefuly with some help) will be able to use the information as evidence to contribute to questioning the government as to whether the PIP process is fit for purpose.

I know its not easy recounting all of the dissatisfaction and woe generated by our collective experiences but I would like to ask you to contribute generously to the thread in order to draw attention to this farcical situation and what is ultimately a very serious issue that isnt garnering enough legitimate public concern.  If you feel the process is making you ill or negatively affecting your health please post details in the thread I have started.  I would also like to request that you to encourage others to get involved too.

Thank you.

DeeDeex4

Hello, I don't mind at all. I haven't mentioned that for three months I'm undergoing tests for MS and Paraneoplastic syndrome (on top of two grade 3 cancers... palliative ), my 15yr old Lily (Grade A) student, leading RAF Cadet, top 25 area maths  student had to accompany me to my hearing as I was nauseous, shaking uncontrollably and extremely dizzy, plus confusion and disoriented.
As mentioned this has gone on for 13 months and gone to the superior court who ordered this back to 1st tier, the Doctor asked " have you ever had social services involved with the children??" No, why would I " Doctor " well, you have a 15yr old here when she should be at school, it's not acceptable.. is it?" No, but the superior Judge said I should go so as to explain everything in person and I can't go out on my own because I fall, Doctor " mmm".
By that comment alone I panicked, I'm going too lose my girls, the sick bag came out, gagging coffee up for 15 minutes in between answering questions.
I got up to leave couldn't get to my feet, what have I done I kept thinking I'm going to loose my girls for £250 a month and a principle.
4 weeks later I'm still waiting for that knock on the door, I know it sounds dramatic but my cognitive reasoning is all over the place, I've been ironing 40yrs, one day I'm ironing, answer the phone, went back to ironing and forgot how too!!! Really stupid things with my memory.
For a week I was so ill after, everything wrong with me heightened, my 28yr old nagging the Doctors too come out as I wouldn't go to them, my Oncologist telephoned to ask what was wrong, is it your treatment? I've ordered an emergency Neurology appt ( June)!!!.
Im an ex Prison Officer, hard to panic to frighten to intimidate, if I could have gotten up to leave I would have, just by that one comment, there are so many others. I was a wreck, lost a further half a stone now 7'2, I'm fighting 2 Cancers with everything I have, looking after 3 Children, 1 disabled... I don't need to take on the Secretary of State to fill in my day, I would never do it again I said... then I realised... Daisy is 16 in a year, she caught Pneumoccocal Meningitis, so I will have to go through it all again for her.
Oh joy!!!!!

bendigedig

@DeeDeex4
I would direct you to write a bit of evidence for my thread but I cant remember what I called it?!  

If you can leave some information there regarding the negative effect all this has had on you in addition to the Horrendous issues you already have to face in your life I and others helping to create this log of evidence would be very grateful.

I think its important people write it in the thread Ive created because I know what this sort of thing entails and I wouldnt want to involve or "implicate others"  in what Im trying to do.  Not unless they were certain about what they were getting into.

DeeDee,  like you Ive been a front line Public Servant both as a teachery/Lecturer and in other capacities in both Local Authority and Charities.  You've spent enough time in the Prison Service to know that having a pop at the establishment is not somthing that you should take lightly.  We both know though that its got to be done though and done with conviction in order to get anywhere with them..... You only have to look at Hilsbrough to understand that.

I think its DISGUSTING the way that they are treating you!  What was the name of the person who was critical of you relying on your daughter that day?  Social Services?  What a first class IDIOT!  How dare they?

bendigedig

In addition to this fantastic thread generated by @chronicendeavors.

Those of you who wish to provide written evidence as to how the PIP process has negatively affected your health please record your evidence in the thread noted below.

"Is PIP fit for purpose"? A welfare process that negatively affects health?
Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/32900/is-pip-fit-for-purpose-a-welfare-process-that-negatively-affects-health#MItUH2VbIKzTcV36.99

If I get enough evidence I will certainly consider taking it forward with the proposition that the PIP system is not fit for purpose.

Please encourage others to do so too.

chronicendeavors

DeeDeex4 said:

My heart goes out too you, it's not  enough to have a disability too cope daily with,  the DWP put you through a meat grinder to add insult to injury.
i spoke to a ladies husband about my case as she had had a first tier appointment a few weeks prior, the husband said " I think the judges are so harsh because their fed up with all these cases going before them"... 
If that's so, isn't it upto the government to put in place a proper Educated team learned in medical/disability causation, actually reading the medical evidence, calling on only the persons records rather than sending a person with NO medical training and acting on THEIR opinion rather than fact from Medical specialists.
are these DWP representatives reprimanded for the lies they put on a claim form?? I can guarantee we would be dealt with making false claims. 
Why are the DWP free to get away with all this? It makes me so angry.
Advocates for the disabled should be in place... I'd stand up for them.
wishing you well

@DeeDeex4 Oh that is just awful! They probably are frustrated, as I would be, but why take it out on the people who have no control over it. I'm trying to shout about my horrid experience so hopefully someone will take note of ALL the awful PIP experiences. I still can't understand why they didn't request information from my doctors, they judged an invisible illness on how Iooked...

Lets hold em accountable. Watch this space. Hope you're good lovely

chronicendeavors

Nystagmite said:

I complained to both Atos and DWP. I was told the nurse knows what she's doing. Oh, you mean she knows she's lying. DWP haven't responded. 

If you read my report, there's a lot of contradictions. The person who made the final decision, appeared to have just read the pages where the points were and agreed with that.

Good on you. I would do the same, but I feel I only have fight for one thing at a time at the moment. My report was laughable at best! I'm shocked by the lies and I can't wait to put it online once my tribunal has happened

chronicendeavors

NickT said:

From the evidence that you show it seems that it is a general rule to reject PIP applications out of hand and only confirm them after people have gone through the appeals process. i have seen this many times when dealing with government departments like HMRC VAT etc. We have to stay strong and force them to do the work.

It honestly does seem that way! What a waste of time. Let alone the unnecessary suffering it creates for the claimaint!

chronicendeavors

DeeDeex4 said:

Agreed but.. do the job properly first time saves money, too send out these " Health Care Proffesionals" ( with NOT one ounce of medical training AND giving them licence too lie mislead imply is costing millions of wasted money... THEN you get a first tier panel too hear the case, who totally ignore medical evidence from specialists and only look to the fictitious inconsistencies of the alleged " Health Care Proffesional".. then the Second tier panel who don't look at anything and send you a letter saying " you have appealed using facts, you need to appeal using POINTS OF LAW" ( they have the worst waste of tax payers funds possible) then you have to appeal to a superior court, one Judge paid hundreds and thousands a year to do the job of ONE IMPARTIAL PERSON looking to Medical FACTS and predictability to outcomes is mind boggling... if facts are not presented correctly by " health Care Proffesional" points of law will be applied incorrectly!! It's odvious... these people are put in place as the proverbial " spanner" in the disabled works... they are used to intimidate, bully mislead the already fragile mind body and sole of an already tired sick and mentally exhausted human being that wouldn't wish their condition on their worst enemy!!!! ( I personally) would make an exception for the Secretary of State). But the absolute worst of all of this is THE SECRETARY OF STATE and ALL of those below him KNOW that this is happening.. how? ... because that's what they were with training EMPLOYED TO DO at the cost to the very people who paid into the system to help them should the unforeseen happen.. YES, we've paid for this injustice to be done to us, ironic isn't it?

Goodness me, I hope mine doesn't go past 1st tier. I'm already struggling so much to stay afloat I can't take much more of trying to live soley on couple rate ESA. Its barbaraic. Currently living with no carpet or flooring, so concrete downstairs and upstairs is the wooden board stuff. Perfect for breaking my regular falls! I can't fix this issue (nor the disability car, badge, carers allowance) etc until PIP but I fear I won't even get it at this rate.

chronicendeavors

bendigedig said:

@chronicendeavors, I hope that you dont mind me including this post here?  I would realy like to try and do somthing about all of this.

Hi all,

Inspired by this thread and the countless other relevant and somtimes heartbeaking posts relatng to the injustices of the PIP system, I have started a seperate thread asking people to record the extent that the PIP process has negatively affected their health.

My hope is that if enough people can contribute to this thread relating to the negative effects of PIP, I (hopefuly with some help) will be able to use the information as evidence to contribute to questioning the government as to whether the PIP process is fit for purpose.

I know its not easy recounting all of the dissatisfaction and woe generated by our collective experiences but I would like to ask you to contribute generously to the thread in order to draw attention to this farcical situation and what is ultimately a very serious issue that isnt garnering enough legitimate public concern.  If you feel the process is making you ill or negatively affecting your health please post details in the thread I have started.  I would also like to request that you to encourage others to get involved too.

Thank you.

@bendigedig What a great idea! I'd love to take part. The government absolutely need to be held acocuntable and I will shout as loud as i can about it

chronicendeavors

bendigedig said:

In addition to this fantastic thread generated by @chronicendeavors.

Those of you who wish to provide written evidence as to how the PIP process has negatively affected your health please record your evidence in the thread noted below.

"Is PIP fit for purpose"? A welfare process that negatively affects health?
Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/32900/is-pip-fit-for-purpose-a-welfare-process-that-negatively-affects-health#MItUH2VbIKzTcV36.99

If I get enough evidence I will certainly consider taking it forward with the proposition that the PIP system is not fit for purpose.

Please encourage others to do so too.

I'm working on it already I hope thread will encourage others who have experienced awful things with PIP to come forwards with their stories. We can contact local MPs (friends of the welfarw state, that is) and hopefully get going from there.

Nystagmite

It's a waste of time me contacting my MP. He still hasn't replied to the email I sent him in December, asking him to intervene when they turned me down... He also wasn't interested (and told me to stop taking what was said literally) when I asked him to have a word with Atos about being more specific about the time of my home visit. Strange how everyone I spoke to, agreed with me.

bendigedig

@Nystagmite
perhaps if we all get started on a coordinated campaign togather somebody (?) might be more than happy to name and shame MPs and their poor handling of PIP comlaints / enquiries?

bendigedig

@chronicendeavors

I have been talking today with @DeeDeex4. In the next week or so we are going to formulate aims and objectives to move forward witha a Facebook group/campaign (along the lines of "Is PIP fit for purpose).

This will be an Apolitical action with the ultimate intention of bringing a review of PIPs fitness as a welfare service.

This is not a private project.  Please get involved and encourage others to do so also.  

By the people, for the people.  Irespective of political viewpoint, race, gender, ethnicity, religion.  FOR EVERYBODY.

chronicendeavors

Nystagmite said:

It's a waste of time me contacting my MP. He still hasn't replied to the email I sent him in December, asking him to intervene when they turned me down... He also wasn't interested (and told me to stop taking what was said literally) when I asked him to have a word with Atos about being more specific about the time of my home visit. Strange how everyone I spoke to, agreed with me.

I have the same problem with mine. My MP is George Freeman haha the one with all the press back in March! I really hope we follow in Scotland's footsteps and rid our system of private companies. It will be a start at least!

chronicendeavors

bendigedig said:

@chronicendeavors

I have been talking today with @DeeDeex4. In the next week or so we are going to formulate aims and objectives to move forward witha a Facebook group/campaign (along the lines of "Is PIP fit for purpose).

This will be an Apolitical action with the ultimate intention of bringing a review of PIPs fitness as a welfare service.

This is not a private project.  Please get involved and encourage others to do so also.  

By the people, for the people.  Irespective of political viewpoint, race, gender, ethnicity, religion.  FOR EVERYBODY.

Hi @bendigedig I would happily get involved with this! I'm sorry I've just seen your response. Is it set up on facebook? 

bendigedig

@chronicendeavors

Hiya,

Thank you very much for showing interest

Well.....  The number of people who have come forward and committed anything to this has made things a bit challenging

@DeeDeex4 and I talked about some aims and objectives which we sort of agreed to.  All seemed a bit pointless though with such a distinct lack of people being interested  here in the SCOPE community.  

It seems people want solutions to their own problems and see little to be gained for themselves by tackling this as a unit?  Somthing that is becomming increasingly common in "divide and conquer Britain".

Im a bit useless with F.b. So I realy feel to get anything started its going to need at least 1/2 a dozen people to set up a closed page.  In this way discussions can get underway as to where to go with things.   

There are good few fb. Pages already offering support and advice to people on PIP etc.  I really would like to veer away from this kind of "acceptance thing" and create a page that actively challenges the DWP and the state about the fitness of PIP as a means for providing welfare.  This needs to be REJECTED by the people of the UK.

Thats why my initial observation about a welfare initiative that makes peopke ill seemed a "penalty kick" to me?  How can somthing like that be allowed to happen in our modern world?

There is no use in working on this though if people are just going to navel gaze about there own circumstances and not speak out in a unified voice.

Im happy to do somthing but in order to "do somthing". People have got to want to get somthing done!

I do not see the point of two or three of us trying very hard to make somthing work if there is no support in the first place?  People need to band together under a common flag and move this forward in a way that has gravity.

Please let me know what you think?

Sam_Alumni

Elen said on twitter:

https://twitter.com/BricklebankElen/status/859462257750749184 

chronicendeavors

bendigedig said:

@chronicendeavors

Hiya,

Thank you very much for showing interest

Well.....  The number of people who have come forward and committed anything to this has made things a bit challenging

@DeeDeex4 and I talked about some aims and objectives which we sort of agreed to.  All seemed a bit pointless though with such a distinct lack of people being interested  here in the SCOPE community.  

It seems people want solutions to their own problems and see little to be gained for themselves by tackling this as a unit?  Somthing that is becomming increasingly common in "divide and conquer Britain".

Im a bit useless with F.b. So I realy feel to get anything started its going to need at least 1/2 a dozen people to set up a closed page.  In this way discussions can get underway as to where to go with things.   

There are good few fb. Pages already offering support and advice to people on PIP etc.  I really would like to veer away from this kind of "acceptance thing" and create a page that actively challenges the DWP and the state about the fitness of PIP as a means for providing welfare.  This needs to be REJECTED by the people of the UK.

Thats why my initial observation about a welfare initiative that makes peopke ill seemed a "penalty kick" to me?  How can somthing like that be allowed to happen in our modern world?

There is no use in working on this though if people are just going to navel gaze about there own circumstances and not speak out in a unified voice.

Im happy to do somthing but in order to "do somthing". People have got to want to get somthing done!

I do not see the point of two or three of us trying very hard to make somthing work if there is no support in the first place?  People need to band together under a common flag and move this forward in a way that has gravity.

Please let me know what you think?

@bendigedig I understand. Hmm it is tough as alot of people facing these difficulties can't cope with that let alone fighting it.  There is s group on Facebook called pip esa fightback . Maybe on there we will have better luck?

SapphireStanton

The system is flawed beyond belief and is designed to work against the very people that need it the most. 

There is a formular to the forms and not enough people know HOW to complete them. This coupled with targets for refusals, a lack of understanding of the complex nature of conditions and a disturbing anti-male gender bias has made applying for the support we are entitled to  a mine field. 

I'm  lucky.  I know the formular. I know how to answer the questions honestly but successfully and I do my best to share this with others in a similar  position. 

Certainly in my local area the official advocates have no idea what they are doing in this regard, unless they too are charged with saving the DWP a buck or two. I have had to clean up the disastrous applications done through the local advocates more than once. Sadly this can mean the claimant having to go through the procedure, being turned down right up to tribunal and starting again from  scratch.  We all know how stressful it is.

This year I have swapped from DLA to PIP myself and worked with 5 others both in person and on line. The males have recieved poorer service from the assessors, to the extent of outright lying  and subsequently recieved a lower award. 
I have even had to sit one applicant down and ask whyvthe would accept help from the DWP to complete the forms, when it is publically known that  they are there to reject as many claims as possible. 

The crazy thing is, the actual figures for benefit fraud are microscopic in comparison to those of us that have been treated abysmally. The deficit the government love to shout about could easily be met by tax avoiders paying their fair share and MPs being honest with their expenses.

I'd rather a very very few claim when they shouldn't because TOO many successful claims than one more vulnerable, frightened sick person  to through this process

Sam_Alumni

Mik said on twitter:

https://twitter.com/MikScarlet/status/859716336565579776