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My PIP Reassessment from hell... 5th Feb, 2018

Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
edited February 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
It only lasted around 40 mins, which I guess is a bad sign.

Here's a little bit of background/preliminary info:
- I requested for the assessment to be recorded. I was allowed to do this with my own 2x recorders.
- I requested for a male assessor, first they said it would be fine. Then they told me they couldn't offer this at the assessment centre I was attending, 2 days before my assessment. I would have to travel 20+ miles to have a male assessor. I reluctantly agreed to a female assessor.

I think I did enough to score the following points:

1. Preparing food - should be 4 points, but she may have tricked me into dropping down to 2 points.
3. Managing medication - 1 point - she didn't even try to take this away, as brought so much medicine, that to try, would be a waste of both our time.
4. Washing & Bathing - 2 points - I can't see how she can take this away from me, as I need to use an aid to wash. She did try a bit, but gave up. I will need to listen to the recording to see if she tricked me.
6. Dressing & Undressing - 2 points - This one she went after me hard. I'm guessing because perhaps I was already up to 7 points potentially. This was her last stand, to stop me from getting any PIP whatsoever, by preventing me from breaking through the 8 points barrier. I should get 2 points, but she may have got me to 0. Kept saying the same question but in different ways. Trying to confuse me.
7. Communicating verbally - I should be getting 4 points. But I screwed this one up badly I think. She formulated her question as the following "do you have trouble speaking on the phone", I didn't realise this was the "Communicating verbally" question. As I said I only speak to my mum by phone because she can't send text messages, as her native language isn't English. I also said my preference is for text messages. Like I do with my dad.
I actually do need a lot of verbal communication support when going to the bank. As I can't understand what they're telling me. My dad has to explain it to me. Fortunately, I said this later on in the assessment, but I think she wrote it down under the "Engaging with other people" descriptor. I'm hoping that if she puts me down to 0 for this. I can get it back to 4 by pointing to this part of the recording, in the Mandatory Reconsideration. I was so angry with myself in the taxi back home, once I realised I had been tricked like this. As someone with Asperger's syndrome, this is the one that hurts me the most in my daily life, and the PIP assessor has potentially tricked me into getting 0 for it...
9. Engaging with other people face to face - 4 points - I would be shocked if I lost this. She attacked me from all angles on this one. As I think she realised if I got this, I cross the Rubicon of 9 points into 13 (potentially), securing my enhanced daily living for at least another year. I'm going under the assumption that I got 0 for "Communicating verbally", which sickens me even to write it out here. I really can't see how she could take that away, but I will await to see the report.
10. Making budgeting decisions - comfortable 2 points. May have even gotten up to 6 points (I really hope so)

So for daily living this is the amount of points listed, I think I safely secured, in the order I listed them above: food 2, medicine 1, washing 2, dressing 2, verbal 0, face to face 4, budgeting 2 giving me 13 points with 0 for "Communicating verbally" (still makes me sick). I'm hoping budgeting is a 4 instead of a 2, giving me a buffer, in case one of the ones I think I got 2 points for, turns out to be gone. I'm also hoping I'm underestimating my 2 points for Food, and it will in face stay as 4. Tbh, I only have myself to blame, this is what I deserve, for throwing away an easy 4 points, like I should have picked up for "Communicating verbally".

For my standard mobility. I may have screwed up on the last hurdle. I can't go to any unfamiliar places without assistance from another person. That should be 10 points. I gave plenty of examples of this, as this is a big problem for me. She attacked me viciously on my car though, but I kept my cool, and said I can only go to Tesco with it, and I've been shown there many times before. Where I think I might have screwed up is by saying I can walk to my doctor's. I'm hoping that's only relevant for the "moving around" descriptor, which I don't claim for. I think perhaps she thought I was going for enhanced mobility rate, when I wasn't, so perhaps she was pleased with herself for thinking she tricked me, by me saying that. Hopefully I have not said anything to damage my 10 points for "Planning & Following Journeys".

By the way, I'm sorry if everything I've said above is incoherent. I'm still in complete shock at the moment. Due to what happened with "Communicating verbally", if I lost my PIP on that blunder I'm going to be devastated. I will certainly appeal, and hope to win at Mandatory Reconsideration, because I can point to the exact point in the tape, where I said the necessary thing, about my dad helping with "complex verbal information" at the bank. She wrote it in the wrong box though, I think she wrote it in the "engaging with people face to face" box. I hope the DWP decision maker will pick up on this.

I just really hope I haven't dropped below standard for daily living, that would cause me a lot of pain in trying to make it to the tribunal. With standard rate, it would be annoying, but comfortable to make it to tribunal. Dropping from enhanced to nothing would be devastating. I'm going to appeal if I've dropped from enhanced to standard anyway, as I know I deserve enhanced. And I'm confident the tribunal will see that. As the previous tribunal did, when they restored my enhanced daily living the last time. I'm just so upset with myself for being tricked in "Communicating verbally".

I will make an updated post after I've listened to the recording. Right now I'm too disgusted with myself to listen to it.

Replies

  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    I originally posted too early by mistake. I have now finished my initial post. Like I said in the OP, I will post an update to this. After I've listened back to the recording. I'm too upset to do it now. So it will likely be tomorrow sometime.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 215 Listener
    edited February 2018
    @Fight4Justice Hi leave till Thursday then ask for your copy of report this will give you your scores and an idea at what rate Good Luck hope you get a good result .
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    Thanks Budgie. Completely forgot about the assessors report. I'm going to be very interested to compare that, to what's on the recording.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 215 Listener
    @Fight4Justice yes it will show you all the ticked boxes and takes about 5 days to come my mum reieved hers 3 days after request. 
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    Difficult one this, but when you get your report usually weeks before the award letter you will know what you should get, but if not what you exspect then you have time to prepare for your appeal, may I sujest that you vist and join the B&W site and get acess to the members only guides which go into great details about making an appeal, scope have good help guides also maybe not as good as B&W.
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    @wilko Excuse my ignorance. But can you please tell me what B&W stands for? I'm interested in checking that site out.
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 458 Pioneering
    If you don’t mind me asking but what exactly is your disability as I’m comparing the results to what I hope to get for my assessment.
    ( please ignore if you don’t want to say )
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    @lillybelle I don’t mind. Asperger syndrome combined with longterm depression.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    B&W is benefitsandwork.co.uk
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    B&W is benefitsandwork.co.uk
    Thank you, that site looks great. I wish I had used it before my reassessment...
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    So sorry to hear about your experience @Fight4Justice, and thank you for sharing with us- do keep us updated and we'll support you where we can.
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    edited February 2018
    Well... I'm in a state of disbelief at the moment. The assessor's report indicates that I'm getting 2pts for Daily Living and 4pts for Mobility.

    What is most laughable. Is they have stated throughout the assessment report, that I have "no diagnosed-cognitive impairments" and "no mental health input" as the reasoning for their recommendations. When my condition is Asperger's syndrome, which by definition, is both of those things. The assessor has even omitted my Diagnostic Assessment Report (DAR) for Asperger's syndrome, from under the heading "List all evidence considered alongside the consultation findings". How can that even be possible? When my entire PIP claim is based on my DAR for Asperger syndrome.

    I'm not sure whether to do my Mandatory Reconsideration by phone or letter yet. Also, I haven't yet received my "award" letter from PIP, but based on these blatant lies and omissions, it's obvious what the DM is going to do. I'm going to try and contact DWP directly on Monday morning, and see if I'm allowed to point out all the lies and omissions before they send me the award letter. Surely, even the DWP can realise, that the assessor deliberately omitting my DAR for Asperger syndrome, is a clear attempt by them, to mislead the DM into not awarding me PIP. I'm so glad I recorded my assessment now. As I have the assessor banged to rights. I'm going to wait and see what the DWP say on Monday first. I guess then I will be writing to my MP. I expect it must get overturned at MR, as such blatant incompetence or misconduct on the assessor's part, can't be passable, even by the DWP's low standards.

    In a state of complete shock and disbelief at the moment. I've already drafted my MR letter. Just need to wait until the DWP send me their award letter first, I guess. Completely disgusted by this assessor's incompetence. It's not even incompetence, it's deliberate lies, and thankfully I have proof. No idea how all this is going to play out.
  • Steph81Steph81 Member Posts: 10 Courageous
    Hi Fight4Justice, sorry to read about your assessment report and the lies been told.

    Contact the DWP on Monday, to see if a decision has been made. If no decision yet, then and ask if possible to request a call back from the Case Manager (DM), who is handling your claim.

    Highlight clearly, that you have received a copy of the assessors report, and are disturbed by the level of misrepresentations (lies) and omissions within. 

    Mention you have a recording of the assessment, that you will be getting transcribed and you have contacted your local MP (email them today) to highlight your case.
    If you get a chance then point out the descriptors where you felt should’ve gained points and why with examples.
    Hopefully, they will see sense, and do the right thing!
    If not you will have to wait for the decision letter to start both the MR & Appeal process. 
    As someone said, Benefits & Works guides are very good, and I’ve used them myself with both my PIP claims. 

    Dont forget- to put in a formal letter or email of complaint to the assessment provider too!
    Again if going through the appeals process, then all of these are documental evidence. Take care
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 458 Pioneering
    Good Grief !!
    how could they come up with that when they obviously know it was being recorded.
    good luck with the appeal, I’m sure you will get justice 
  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    sadly yet another person who has to fight lies WHY acessers lie so they can get more cash and till this is stopped we all are in danger from them  the dm in dwp is not medically qualified so relys on report of supposed experts  now here's a fact in most assessment centres you may be seen by an analytical professional  ummmm WHAT  i hear you say there's no such medical person well yes there is its called form filler who is qualified to fill forms in to the advantage of a company  can you drag them to appeal no you cannot because they cant be found can you report them no they have no goveing body ?thank got you had it recorded and they wil back down or rather case maneer dwp will the acesser just goes on lieing twisting and hurting vulnearble paeaple for cash
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    edited February 2018
    @Steph81 thank you for that checklist. I have done everything you said. Also saved it in a word doc for future reference. Also thank you @lillybelle and @maid08 for well wishes.

    I just wanted to give a quick update on what I've done. No decision has been made by the Case Manager yet. I tried to request a call back from them through the PIP helpline. The first PIP helpline adviser I got put me on hold, then hung up. The second was aggressive and rude from the outset of the call, told me to wait until the Case Manager made a decision. Also to contact Atos instead, he's definitely on Atos' payroll. Third time was the charm, got through to one of the nice ones it seems. He located my Diagnostic Assessment Report for Autism, and told me he's passing this onto the Case Manager directly, so that it will be taken into consideration now. He also made a note of each descriptor I wanted to complain about. He's restored my faith in the DWP, there does seem to be some "good" people still left in there. I don't know if the following is PC or not. But the one that helped me was called Mohammed, and his accent sounded of Indian descent.

    I sent an email to my MP on Sunday. Hopefully I might get a reply this week. I didn't hold back and gave them the full story.

    I have sent an email complaint to Atos also. Not expecting them to do anything about it. But I agree, it might be useful as document evidence later down the line.

    I'm now in a position where I think I've done all I can. If the Case Manager, still tries to ignore my autism, at least now they can't claim ignorance. Which hopefully might lead them to doing the "right thing", now that they know some accountability could be put on them down the line, as I guess their name will be linked to my claim/award. Not holding my breath though.

    If it does end up going to MR or appeal. I will definitely go for the Benefits & Works guides. That's several times I've seen that resource recommended now.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    You have been proactive in your pip case more than many who reside their selves to go with the flow. The B&W guides are a great resource you will have to join to get acess but well worth the cost for 12 mths membership. I have been a member for 2yrs not needed to appeal but have found the guides and information helpful in filling in pip forms and othe advice via the forum, good luck.
  • lkeldlkeld Member Posts: 1 Listener
    I know this is a older post but i came across it when googling MR PIP. 
    I am concerned that you were going to do your MR over the phone or call DWP as that will contradict the communication side of talking on the phone!!
    The very fact you maybe didn't get your condition over in the face to face assessment can surely be used to strengthen your point that you are not good with verbal communication or mixing with other people???
  • kdjkdj Member Posts: 6 Connected
    can anyone tell me if the assessors get a bonus for marking down your points which would result in a refusal of pip or esa ?

  • kdjkdj Member Posts: 6 Connected
    does anyone know why the dwp are assessing people a year earlier than needed I gwent through the appeals after my last claim was turned down and the courts overturned this and now the dwp are assessing me a year before the end of the court findings, I have looked on several forums and it seems to be predominately against people who went through the courts can anyone relate to this ? maybe update me on best course to follow

  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    You can be reviewed or assessef a year before the end date, I won my appeal in Feb but my award was for two years, until 2019, so I’m expecting a review later this year!

    Its not only people who appealed it happens to most on PIP.

    I don’t get why the put end dates or until a certain date when they can review it at anytime/ a year before the end date.
  • PrincessxPrincessx Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Hello I see this is an old post but I am interested to find out the outcome of your Pip claim.
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    @Princessx

    My tribunal appeal is next week. Feeling sick with nerves but I've been through one before and won, hoping for the same outcome again.

    It will have been around a 15 to 16 weeks wait from when tribunal services received my appeal. I think compared to claimants from other parts of the UK I've been very lucky in this regard, so I'm not going to complain about the wait.
  • Fight4JusticeFight4Justice Member Posts: 63 Courageous
    lkeld said:
    I know this is a older post but i came across it when googling MR PIP. 
    I am concerned that you were going to do your MR over the phone or call DWP as that will contradict the communication side of talking on the phone!!
    The very fact you maybe didn't get your condition over in the face to face assessment can surely be used to strengthen your point that you are not good with verbal communication or mixing with other people???
    Yes I agree with that. My communication skills on the phone in general aren't that good. There's no way my phone call could work against me, if anything I think it would work in my favour, as we had to take several breaks during the call so I could recompose myself. My dealings directly with the DWP on the phone haven't been too bad all in all. The people that work at Atos aka Independent Assessment Services on the other hand lack any compassion or empathy whatsoever. Basically treated like a criminal at the face to face assessment, and if you give them any opportunity to twist your words they'll do it. Even if I win my appeal it will be the same thing all over in 2 years time.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited August 2018

    Even if I win my appeal it will be the same thing all over again in 2 years time.
    Know the feeling well my friend!!
  • PrincessxPrincessx Member Posts: 4 Listener
    I wish you luck with your appeal.  :)
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