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WHY NOT SAY??

maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
edited March 2018 in Coffee lounge

This may seem an od comment but why does Scope not point out to check reg of accesers with their governing body   because i have and they state acessers cant put their name to a report unless they are trained in each illness as per my post physio?? Nor can they give an opinion which is using their name to do so

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    It makes you wonder where do the accesers come from? Are they staff that have moved from the NHS to a easier job less hours no,nights or week end working ( 9 to 5 ) I have had two f2f both nurses one female the other male. I have read on furums that some accesers goggle health conditions to get more information about your condition and the answers you give at the acessment to ensure they are related to each other so as they score you properly!!?
  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    If it works @maid08 and @wilko, this link will take you to a televised meeting between MPs and the head honchos of the organisations that provide assessors: https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/41310/Parliament%20TV:%20https://goo.gl/ic9bqS It is rather a long discussion, and I have not yet watched all of it myself. The assessors the two main organisations refer to seem to consist mostly of nurses, physios, emergency medical technicians, and people 'with a medical background'. The MPs could not understand why assessors had not been recruited from the ranks of GPs. 
    From their arguments it would appear that assessors are part-time employees, and are earning extra cash whilst taking a break from their normal day jobs, perhaps raising a family. The organisations concerned have not tried to recruit GPs and my guess is that they think GPs were less likely to give in to pressure, or it may be that they think the rate of pay would not be high enough to bring GPs in.
    It's a mess.
    Best to you both,
    Richard
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    That's just what I thought, earning a living using their knowledge of nursing but not to a specialist standard to form or make a health judgement on a disabled persons abilities just from reading a claimants answers and asking questions then to tick a box and award a score which leads to an award.
  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    Yup, @wilko, box-ticking is what it is all about these days. I'm guessing there must be some decent people doing it - bear in mind that on here and in similar spaces the ones we tend to see are the ones where it has gone wrong. In effect, when you're set up to respond to problems, problems are pretty much all you get to see, and you don't get to see the stuff that's actually working.
  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    wilko said:
    That's just what I thought, earning a living using their knowledge of nursing but not to a specialist standard to form or make a health judgement on a disabled persons abilities just from reading a claimants answers and asking questions then to tick a box and award a score which leads to an award.
    which is fine if they have the relevant experience of illness they are looking at ?physios ain't able to deal with most things health-related only their chosen medical thing and it was stated governing body will take a dim view of abuseing name??

  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    JennysDad said:
    If it works @maid08 and @wilko, this link will take you to a televised meeting between MPs and the head honchos of the organisations that provide assessors: https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/41310/Parliament%20TV:%20https://goo.gl/ic9bqS It is rather a long discussion, and I have not yet watched all of it myself. The assessors the two main organisations refer to seem to consist mostly of nurses, physios, emergency medical technicians, and people 'with a medical background'. The MPs could not understand why assessors had not been recruited from the ranks of GPs. 
    From their arguments it would appear that assessors are part-time employees, and are earning extra cash whilst taking a break from their normal day jobs, perhaps raising a family. The organisations concerned have not tried to recruit GPs and my guess is that they think GPs were less likely to give in to pressure, or it may be that they think the rate of pay would not be high enough to bring GPs in.
    It's a mess.
    Best to you both,
    Richard
    aply for an assessment job online 38000 a year 6 weeks training   then 1st few months 150a acesmant climbing up to 200plus

  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    The organisations - ATOS and whatever the other one is - have a lot to say about the task of the assessors NOT being diagnostic - it's one of the justifications they give, I think, for not recruiting GPs. The assessors have been 'trained' by the assessing organisations to know, supposedly, what they ought to know. Avoiding the word 'diagnostic' they do make repeated use of the word 'clinical'. It all sounds extremely dubious and distorted to me. Both organisations have hundreds of staff, but even of their permanent staff there appear to be only two actual doctors in each organisation.
    I have found and am trying to some background work for a group who, at the moment, are talking about creating a political party (or a political pressure group). You might find them interesting: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1349035641867426/
    Best to you
    Richard
  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    £38000 a year? For 6 weeks training? We know where their hearts are, then.
  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    Way to go, @wildlife. I look forward to hearing more :smile:
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    The training is on how to use the cumputer software to record the acessment evidence to enable the point scoring to be made available to the decision maker at DWP, and verify the claimants answers that where written in the PIP application form.
  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    Now wonder they need such huge compensation. All that effort :(
  • mossycowmossycow Member Posts: 495 Pioneering
    My assessor hadn't heard of gabapentin and couldn't spell paracetamol. .. I'm not judging her language skills but I cant see how she could have been in any way medically qualified.

    My Mum got a job as an assessor and shes a retired nurse. And based on her info as wilko above says (hi!) the training is in the software and to just make sure the answers are the same.....

    "I'm trying to live like a random poem I read that ended 'to bloom where we are planted"

  • PIPESAPIPESA Member Posts: 12 Connected
    @wildlife...I did the same thing re my assessor from Capita.

    It was stated on the assessment report that her profession was Physiotherapist.  After Googling her and finding her LinkedIn profile etc there was no mention of anything resembling a career as a physiotherapist, however she was a Staff Nurse who was disillusioned with the NHS.

    As I have already posted,  the report was appalling and I had my original award reinstated after a reconsideration.

    I questioned her credentials because  she was ignorant of how a knee replacement affects flexibility and we questioned her mental health training as she made some astonishing assumptions RE mental health issues.

    She even reported my last 'occupation' was a House Wife?!?!...bearing in mind I'm a man and not very pretty and never been married, I guess I should be flattered!!....cut and paste error I HOPE!!

    I received a letter from Capita today stating my complaint about her was in the process of being looked into.....I won't hold my breath...the fact the DWP Case Manager referred all my ignored evidence back to Capita whose new report came back within 48 hours and the MR was then successful, says all you need to know.....however the fact she was a Staff Nurse is even more worrying, with her seemingly poor knowledge of bodily functions, we noted, by her strange questions and conclusions re my physical disabilities....but why 'lie' as to her occupation???

    But I agree....you MUST look into the HPs professional background, if you can, when you dispute their findings and conclusions.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @PIPESA Yes I too found my assessor on Linkedin which I tried to use as evidence when the Facebook info. from her profile was rejected by HCPC with the reasoning people can write anything on FB not necessarily the truth. Now while I can understand her not wanting to announce to the world that she was an assessor employed by ATOS there was a gap in her job history of a short period of about 9 months during which I had my assessment. The information she had no problem putting on her public profile, as no way did I befriend her, ran from her days at a private school all through to her current employment, having now moved on to a none medical job, made no mention of training or working as a Paramedic which she claimed to be. I printed off this education and work history from Linkedin and sent it to HCPC who confirmed it was used to investigate the person with the same name on their register and that it belonged to my assessor but that was the end of their willingness to investigate her further. They also accused me of doing all this because I wanted more benefit. They treated me like I was a lower class citizen. Their attitude was appalling. My only option now is my ongoing complaint now with ICE which is due to include her qualifications. I am due for a review in 2 years and her lies denied me higher rate DL though I did get higher mobility at MR. Also to let you all know you can make a Subject Access request for all your records from DWP which I did and was how I found a false registration number on a form. She would have done this later in the day with no idea that I would ever see the form again, but it was sent to me under the Data Protection Act. You can find out how to do this on the ICO (Information Commissioner's Office) website.
  • PIPESAPIPESA Member Posts: 12 Connected
    @wildlife

    From my latest conversation with DWP Case Managers and the findings of the Work and Pensions Committee report on ESA and PIP assessments released on 14th Feb, it won't be long till it is mandatory that all assessments are independently recorded. So , hopefully, things will change for the better.
  • AbilityInActionAbilityInAction Member Posts: 20 Connected
    If you want to know what their qualification requirements are and what the job requires, look at the recruitment pages on Capita - that tells you a lot.
  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    If you want to know what their qualification requirements are and what the job requires, look at the recruitment pages on Capita - that tells you a lot.
    yes one of them is cn you type fast????? got my son to apply for job he is a psychiatric nurse
  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    he cant help me tho he says im just past all help
  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    PIPESA said:
    @wildlife...I did the same thing re my assessor from Capita.

    It was stated on the assessment report that her profession was Physiotherapist.  After Googling her and finding her LinkedIn profile etc there was no mention of anything resembling a career as a physiotherapist, however she was a Staff Nurse who was disillusioned with the NHS.

    As I have already posted,  the report was appalling and I had my original award reinstated after a reconsideration.

    I questioned her credentials because  she was ignorant of how a knee replacement affects flexibility and we questioned her mental health training as she made some astonishing assumptions RE mental health issues.

    She even reported my last 'occupation' was a House Wife?!?!...bearing in mind I'm a man and not very pretty and never been married, I guess I should be flattered!!....cut and paste error I HOPE!!

    I received a letter from Capita today stating my complaint about her was in the process of being looked into.....I won't hold my breath...the fact the DWP Case Manager referred all my ignored evidence back to Capita whose new report came back within 48 hours and the MR was then successful, says all you need to know.....however the fact she was a Staff Nurse is even more worrying, with her seemingly poor knowledge of bodily functions, we noted, by her strange questions and conclusions re my physical disabilities....but why 'lie' as to her occupation???

    But I agree....you MUST look into the HPs professional background, if you can, when you dispute their findings and conclusions.
    its the only way to sort them out  cos its hurting a lot of people and we do not know about people who do not use the internet or even think to search it
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    maid08maid08
    For those of you who haven't seen it, it's interesting to look at the 'health professional performance' section of the PIP assessment guide.

    That says, amongst other things, that they should have an 'up to date knowledge of relevant clinical subjects'.

    It's very clear from experience that this usually isn't the case! As for the governing body of each type of medical professional, these bodies may have rules as suggested in your original post. It's also clear from the guide that an assessor must be fully registered, so if those rules are broken that could be relevant to whether they should still be registered, & if not, they whether they should still be doing the job of an assessor.

    It may well be worth checking this when making a complaint, and also mentioning it as part of an appeal (because it could help to undermine the assessor's evidence as far as the tribunal are concerned). 

    As wildlife knows, you have to be very persistent with complaints. I'm still hopeful that given the amount of very public criticism from the Work & Pensions Committee and others, something has to change soon.

    Will


    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2018
    @maid08, hello, how do,we find out if our acessor is qualified and a member of their professional body, if it states on the report are they are a nurse does that mean they are a SRN or other?
  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    wilko said:
    @maid08, hello, how do,we find out if our acessor is qualified and a member of their professional body, if it states on the report are they are a nurse does that mean they are a SRN or other?
    https://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/search-the-register/
    put her name and reg number in if you have it

  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    edited March 2018
    maid08 said:
    wilko said:
    @maid08, hello, how do,we find out if our acessor is qualified and a member of their professional body, if it states on the report are they are a nurse does that mean they are a SRN or other?
    https://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/search-the-register/
    put her name and reg number in if you have it

    if no reg just name will do and check all like phyicic nurse dental if wil show her if reg


  • maid08maid08 Member Posts: 307 Member
    maid08maid08
    For those of you who haven't seen it, it's interesting to look at the 'health professional performance' section of the PIP assessment guide.

    That says, amongst other things, that they should have an 'up to date knowledge of relevant clinical subjects'.

    It's very clear from experience that this usually isn't the case! As for the governing body of each type of medical professional, these bodies may have rules as suggested in your original post. It's also clear from the guide that an assessor must be fully registered, so if those rules are broken that could be relevant to whether they should still be registered, & if not, they whether they should still be doing the job of an assessor.

    It may well be worth checking this when making a complaint, and also mentioning it as part of an appeal (because it could help to undermine the assessor's evidence as far as the tribunal are concerned). 

    As wildlife knows, you have to be very persistent with complaints. I'm still hopeful that given the amount of very public criticism from the Work & Pensions Committee and others, something has to change soon.

    Will


    a couple of points i can clear up  if they not reg the report is rubbish and illegal??? as to governing body  they can  not give an opinion or diagnose on anything other than trained and abuse of name and reg is frowned on and should be reported im told
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    Yes it's easy to check whether you assessor is on the register for their own governing body. Your assessment report should be signed with their full name and proffesional status. The NMC is the Nursing and Midwifery Council so presumably any type of nurse should be on the NMC register. The GMC General Medical Council governs Doctors which are few and far between as assessors and HCPC governs Paramedics and Physiotherapists I think, not sure about the latter. My experience of HCPC is that once they know you're enquiring about an assessor they don't want to know making the excuse there is an appeal process within the PIP framework. But their standard of practice and code of conduct still applies if their job is in any way medically related which assessing disability is. Also ICO who regulate the Data Protection Act have to same attitude even though any assessors lying and recording false information are breaking the DPA. So once ATOS or Capita have rejected your complaint the only way to get any justice is through ICE. My complaint is still with them awaiting investigation. If you haven't got the information you need about your assessor you can make a subject access request to DWP for ALL your personal benefit paperwork. You might be surprised what you find out. 
  • BarbiesnemesisBarbiesnemesis Member Posts: 86 Pioneering
    When I think of the assessors having a 'medical background' I just imagine the ATOS company photographing their employees in front of a hospital so they can prove they have a 'medical background' - if you see what I mean ;)
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    When I think of the assessors having a 'medical background' I just imagine the ATOS company photographing their employees in front of a hospital so they can prove they have a 'medical background' - if you see what I mean ;)
    Love it.

    My assessor said I had no physical, mental, cognitive, sensory, intellectual, or memory impairment. 
    My guess is they got sacked from their last position!!!

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    maid08 said:
    wilko said:
    @maid08, hello, how do,we find out if our acessor is qualified and a member of their professional body, if it states on the report are they are a nurse does that mean they are a SRN or other?
    https://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/search-the-register/
    put her name and reg number in if you have it

    I saw a male assessor and the name on the report is female. Where do I start?
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • BarbiesnemesisBarbiesnemesis Member Posts: 86 Pioneering
    @whistles the trouble is if you are articulate and with it they think you are fine. Just another example of the blunt instrument used by (don't give) ATOS to assess people.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    I checked my accessors out the male was genuine the female may have got married so name changed since accessment.
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