PIP - zero points - how many of us?

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wilko

Not so many manual physical jobs being done today as in the past, technology replacing brute force we are or have become a nation of don't,won't or can't do.  That's why gym membership has gone up.

sleepy1

@Salamka101
Hello, I read your post this morning about all the struggles you went through as a child/adult and I think it is truly amazing how you got through all of that......Good on you for fighting and overcoming all that ill treatment.

Shame that some people have no apathy!

Big hugs Rosie



    

whistles

Not to sure why we have a poster with a problem with overweight people? For some this is the result of other health conditions, medication, mental health, immobility.
I don't have a problem with anyone, we all have life experiences that have got us where we sit today. 

Now I think manufacturers making all the processed **** food with unnecessay salt, sugar or fat or all three. This could be addressed. Yes we could educate people on healthy eating. 
But I can't cook so processed it is.

Salamka101

@Victoriad Just a couple of points:-

1) Education was not the key to my success as you suggested. I made it clear that even after passing my HNC I was still a victim of blatant discrimination and a futile job search. My life turned around after I joined the DDAG and when Motability came in in 1977. As a matter of interest after it was announced I and other members were tasked with persuading motor dealers to participate. One of the dealerships I visited was so impressed with my argument he issued me with a challenge - prove that I could sell and I  could be their Motability rep. Unfortunately for him when Motability was rolled out only British cars were included and his franchises were Datsun, Citroen and Volvo. Fortunately for me within 3 months I was his top Volvo Salesman.

2) I made it clear from the outset that I did not begrudge your award in any way.
You suggested that my loss was an unfortunate side effect of the Governments need to save money somewhere so they could spend more on mental illness. The question I asked was about the fiscal sense of taking benefits from people who were using that benefit to contribute to the Tax pool. Even now I see little fiscal sense in the government taking away my right to a Motability vehicle at a cost of £55 and give me £80 a week to sit at home.

I would appreciate it if you stopped looking for criticisms or insults where none are intended.

Salamka101

PS Not sure why or how this thread became about obesity but sitting around is not doing much for my waistline. Fortunately I have a friend who picks me up to go to a swimming club.

Salamka101

@sleepy1
Thanks for the hugs Rosie,  I can feel  the warmth from here. So many on here have or are suffering far more than I. My thoughts are always with them. I am and always have been a fighter and if my experience helps others in any way I am happy.

Hugs back
Salamka101

Nystagmite

I can't believe how judgmental some people are. 

In regards to weight - I've taken various medication over the years which causes issues with weight. One that causes weight gain had the wonderful side effect of making me hungry too... I now can't stop losing weight with what I'm on now.

In regards to us being better off than workers - you're comparing two different situations. A non-disabled worker doesn't need to pay for care, an adapted vehicle, adapted clothing, etc.

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jaycee6

I still think the problem lies in only having 2 rates. How does one categorise disabled.The list is long..Those that can do nothing at all ,walk talk and are 100 percent reliant on someone else, those that have severe learning difficulties and need 100 percent care as they dont have the thinking to take care of them selves .so the above 2 will never work or be independent.,..and so the list goes down and down,from both physical and mentally,from a scale of 1 to 10.It seems to be a complicated mess,I dont think there is any answer,Except to be grateful  that you are not in the top 2 categories above,,

Nystagmite

Yes, I agree 2 rates isn't enough. I also think 8 points to get anything is too many.

whistles

Nystagmite said:

Yes, I agree 2 rates isn't enough. I also think 8 points to get anything is too many.

I didn't think it was until i saw how its marked. 
You can get 2+2 points in question one, but you don't get 4 points. You just get 2.
It is aimed at the most severe people, but even then these people are probably still living in poverty or with it sniffing their heels.
I live in one room, I can't exactly downsize unless I move into a cupboard. I am trying to get my brain around the drop in my weekly money. I don't prices complex runs but according to my assessor I can manage just fine.
The OP was who has dropped to 0 points. My thinking with what I've read about lying assessors, is there is a plan to drop every claim a level. If you were middle/ high mobility they know dropping you a level means no car and probably no way of funding your own. For care dropping you removes your SDP as well. Looks like i am £60 a week less and te mobility to get me out is going to have to pay the bills. 
^^ just having a moan and then i will be moving forwards.
Discussing money, benefits and facilties is an emotive topic and i am allowed my moan. 

Salamka101

@Victoriad
How dare you judge me! That is totally out of order. You swallow a Newspaper report about Motability hook line and sinker. Allow me to use some of those management skills to blow apart your VAT theory. If Motability do not supply a vehicle, and this already applies to over 75,000 former customers, there is no sale, therefore no  VAT due. Each of the cars supplied and subsequently returned is ultimately resold and that resale IS subject to VAT.

With regard to the reported £2.4 billion of reserves - I know because I was one of the people who proposed the scheme, it was always intended to be ultimately self sustaining, ie the original subscribers payments financed the next set and so on. It built up slowly over 40 years to a peak of around 180,000 customers. 75,000  of those customers have been lost since PiP was introduced. Their cars were sold, often at large profit because they were invariably virtually new and low mileage.
At this point the rollover effect built into the scheme that allowed it to expand over 40 years goes into a sharp reverse and there is a large influx of cash instead of customers.

Esther McVey has claimed these reserves belong to the government but do they?
The article stated that the government pay Motability an amount each year. In fact the money Motability receive is paid by the DWP on behalf of the customer who would otherwise have had the allowance paid directly to them. So if that money is to be given away to anyone it should go to the people whose leases allowed it to accumulate.

However, I remind you that in the article you posted it clearly states that a Charity Commission Review found the levels of reserves to be conservative. Clearly they understood all too well that the situation regarding disability benefits is very much up in the air at the moment. Nobody is yet entirely sure how much effect the expansion of payments to people with mental issues will increase demand for mobility vehicles, nobody yet knows whether the Government will see sense and restore a significant number of the 75,000, and nobody yet knows what the outcome of the 1.6 million reviews will be.

I have done you the courtesy of explaining things, not because I believe you will accept any part of it, but for others to read and judge with a more open mind than yours.

As for my 'lifestyle choice' your remarks are rude and totally unjustified. I didn't choose to have Polio. It is not by choice that I cannot walk to either end of the street where I live! Nor am I mourning the loss of MY mobility vehicle, I'm a 69 year old pensioner now who believes common sense and decency suggests that PiP is a disaster for all sorts of reasons, fiscal and personal hardship to thousands.

Reading between the lines is seldom a good idea in the long run. You have a tendency to judge others based on your interpretation of what they might be saying. I'm reminded of a line from Shakespeare 'Methinks she doth protest too much.'

Wind your neck in.........please.

Salamka101


  

wilko

When I started work at 17yrs old I think it was three people's taxes NI needed to pay a claimants benefits, I wonder what the number is now? One claimant told me when they added all their benefits up it came to £20,000 plus a free bus pass. It make you wonder how long UK Plc can continue paying this benefits rates.

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Nystagmite

But if you look at the stats, you will see that PIP really isn't working. Else why would some 60% of people go to tribunal and win? Whereas if it was 5%, you could argue it works. I don't believe we're ever going to have a system where 100% of people get the right outcome without having to go tribunal.

PIP is a disaster. But they've done what they set out to do - try and save money. But a the same time, I don't believe that they gave it to right people. Not saying that some people who got it shouldn't do. But it's ridiculous that as an adult with dual sense loss, I had to get it looked at again, despite the evidence.

wildlife

@Victoriad PIP is NOT working otherwise why would there be hundreds if not thousands of people reporting lack of use of evidence and blatant lies told about them on official reports. Reports that change people's lives. If you are one of the lucky ones who had an honest assessor you cannot judge the whole PIP process on what happened in your case. @Nystagmite I agree why else would there have to be government enquiries into how it's working and what is going wrong. I still have official medical evidence that was totally ignored from IAPT mental health services and my physiotherapist to whom my Doctor had referred me. She produced 2 reports with results from strength tests and mobility exercises but only the false results produced by my dishonest assessor where believed.

Salamka101

@Victoriad

I have to say your misinterpretation of what the Charities Commission (NOT Esther McVey) meant when they used the word 'conservative' gave me the best laugh I have had for years.

I have given considerable thought to what my Car meant to me lately for obvious reasons and it gave me something money alone cannot buy - anonymity. The ability to be, or appear to be, just like everyone else. To pass children in the street without being stared at, mocked, ridiculed or aped.

I have not for a moment suggested your award was not merited. I have pointed out that my award enabled me to live a useful and productive life and overall make a significant contribution to the tax pool. and, whilst my disability can never be cured by medical science, I have every right to question whether the money wasted by the governments miscalculations on PiP might not have been better spent on enhanced treatments, perhaps even cures for those with mental issues.

Whether I am right or wrong, time will tell, or people can judge for themselves.

Salamka101