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Home help stressful

littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
edited May 2018 in Disabled people
hi I have been trying too get a small care package .ive seen the social worker etc,never  realised it would become so stressful.the whole thing is so confusing .finally getting near the end and they returned the amount I would have too pay .i just can't blooming afford it .i no I'd have too contribute but not so much .seems if I needed full time care ,it would work in my favour .but a smaller package means paying the same almost .anyone else had problems with similar please?.could get smaller hours but starting too get rely fed up of the whole thing.i struggle already sigh 

Replies

  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @littleruthie123
    So have you had a care needs assessment?

    We have lots of information here about independent living and social care.

    Im sorry you are having such a stressful time, if you'd like to speak to someone, you can try calling the helpline on 0808 800 3333
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Yes I have thanks .and then the fianaces visit from a lady from the council .they counted no disability expenditures.feel like I'm at square one again 
  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    @Jean_Scope do you have any information or support that could help?
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • Jean_OTJean_OT Member Posts: 528 Pioneering

    Hi @Sam_Scope

    Thanks for inviting me to join this conversation, however, I think the Helpline's Social Care Information Specialist @Zoe_Scope is better placed to offer advice than me, so I have copied her in.

    Best wishes

    Jean

    Jean Merrilees BSc MRCOT

    You can read more of my posts at: https://community.scope.org.uk/categories/ask-an-occupational-therapist

  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks Jean!
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Thank you I the info I need is what can I put for disability expenditure ,the lady from the council Dident help me in any way .she actually talked me out of including things .so I am speaking again with her tommorow .some amounts that I pay out were incorrect also .dident realise they would be cut throat about it 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Anyone??please🙃
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21 Courageous

    Hello @littleruthie123

    Sorry for the delay in responding to you but have just seen your post.

    The Care Act Statutory guidance gives the following information about financial charging and disability related expenditure:

    See Chapter 8 and Annex C

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/care-act-statutory-guidance/care-and-support-statutory-guidance

     

    Chapter 8:Charging and financial assessment

     

    “8.42 Because a person who receives care and support outside a care home will need to pay their daily living costs such as rent, food and utilities, the charging rules must ensure they have enough money to meet these costs. After charging, a person must be left with the minimum income guarantee (MIG), as set out in the Care and Support (Charging and Assessment of Resources) Regulation 2014. In addition, where a person receives benefits to meet their disability needs that do not meet the eligibility criteria for local authority care and support, the charging arrangements should ensure that they keep enough money to cover the cost of meeting these disability-related costs.” 

     

    Disability-related expenditure: Annex C

     

    39) Where disability-related benefits are taken into account, the local authority should make an assessment and allow the person to keep enough benefit to pay for necessary disability-related expenditure to meet any needs which are not being met by the local authority.

     

    40) In assessing disability-related expenditure, local authorities should include the following. However, it should also be noted that this list is not intended to be exhaustive and any reasonable additional costs directly related to a person’s disability should be included:

     

    1.         (a) payment for any community alarm system

    2.         (b) costs of any privately arranged care services required, including respite care

    3.         (c) costs of any specialist items needed to meet the person’s disability needs, for example:

    1.         (i) Day or night care which is not being arranged by the local authority

    2.         (ii) specialist washing powders or laundry

    3.         (iii) additional costs of special dietary needs due to illness or disability (the person may be asked for permission to approach their GP in cases of doubt)

    4.         (iv) special clothing or footwear, for example, where this needs to be specially made; or additional wear and tear to clothing and footwear caused by disability

    5.         (v) additional costs of bedding, for example, because of incontinence

    6.         (vi) any heating costs, or metered costs of water, above the average levels for the area and housing type

    7.         (vii) occasioned by age, medical condition or disability

    8.         (viii) reasonable costs of basic garden maintenance, cleaning, or domestic help, if necessitated by the individual’s disability and not met by social services

    9.         (ix) purchase, maintenance, and repair of disability-related equipment, including equipment or transport needed to enter or remain in work; this may include IT costs, where necessitated by the disability; reasonable hire costs of equipment may be included, if due to waiting for supply of equipment from the local council

    10.       (x) personal assistance costs, including any household or other necessary costs arising for the person

    11.       (xi) internet access for example for blind and partially sighted people

    12.       (xii) other transport costs necessitated by illness or disability, including costs of transport to day centres, over and above the mobility component of DLA or PIP, if in payment and available for these costs. In some cases, it may be reasonable for a council not to take account of claimed transport costs – if, for example, a suitable, cheaper form of transport, for example, council-provided transport to day centres is available, but has not been used

    13.       (xiii) in other cases, it may be reasonable for a council not to allow for items where a reasonable alternative is available at lesser cost. For example, a council might adopt a policy not to allow for the private purchase cost of continence pads, where these are available from the NHS

     

    41) The care plan may be a good starting point for considering what is necessary disability-related expenditure. However, flexibility is needed. What is disability-related expenditure should not be limited to what is necessary for care and support. For example, above average heating costs should be considered.

    Many local authorities provide an average figure for DRE but this can be increased if you can evidence the extra costs.

    Also see guidance from a disabled people’s organisation that gives a clear explanation of how DRE should be treated:

    http://www.real.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Reals-guidance-on-disability-related-expenditure-12-April-2017-PDF.pdf

    If your local authority refuses to allow any reasonable DRE then you can challenge them by putting in a complaint using the councils complaints process, I have spoken to other people who have successfully challenged their allocated DRE figure.

    If you would like to get in touch with me at the helpline by emailing [email protected] I am happy to give you a call for further information.

    Kind Regards,

     Zoe

    Social Care Information Officer

  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Thank you so much Zoe .its such a complicated thing .will sit and read before she rings me later.thanks again x
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21 Courageous

    No problem, and as I said please get back in touch if you have any issues going forward.

    If you have time before she rings also try to look at your councils DRE policy which should be on their website. If its not, ask your social worker for a copy.

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    Is this the same as direct payments?
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21 Courageous

    Disability related expenditure is an amount of money that should be disregarded from a persons assessed financial contribution towards their personal budget.

    So for example if a person is assessed as being able to contribute x amount towards their care costs then the DRE amount should be taken away from that figure.

    Local councils should make an assessment of your disability related expenditure and allow you to keep enough benefits to meet any needs not being met by the council.

    Financial assessments should generally look like:

    Income - housing costs (rent, council tax and mortgage costs) - minimum income guarantee figure- DRE costs= Assessed contribution


  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    [email protected] .they will pay them a certain amount then I pay the rest .which they work out .they Dident include a few things they should of .so going too ask them too look again 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    They Dident include heating costs ,underestimated transport costs .and also put my full e.s.a amount before deductions .that come too almost 50.00 a week .also high shopping bills through deliveries ?.also got my council tax payments wrong 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Thrown in the towel in the end .couldent cope with the whole processes.social worker kept changing her mind about hours we agreed .which no included any domestic help .and was expected too pay nearly 60.00 pound a week when I only get low p.i.p .back too the drawing board .feel exhausted and frustrated .thanks for advise though everyone
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    What will they offer if you can't top it up? Without meaning to pry, is this sort of manageable? 

    I realise this could be location dependant, but I got assessed for what they provide. That's it though, anything else I feel I need I would have to pay for.
    I had forgotten my dla care was paying the top up, so that stopped so did some of the care.

    I don't think people realise how expensive care is.

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    I don't no that was an option .
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    I'd actually be happy with that .then could find a cleaner myself .trying too get basic details about care seems difficult ..don't no why 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Can be deeming enough saying you need with help for varies things.feel really disappointed with the whole thing .never thought trying too get a bit of help would be so hard .really had enough 
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    Do you have a social worker? That's who arranged mine. They did the assessment. 
    But different councils appear to have their own rules.

    Maybe ring the helpline. 
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    whistles said:
    I don't think people realise how expensive care is.

    The actual cost of care is nowhere near the amount that the local authority charge for or pay
    It's all swings and roundabouts where care provision is involved.

    Take the cost of care in a residential care home. The local authority will only pay a figure that they can afford. This can be up to £300 a week less than the care home charges. That £300 is then recovered by the home through increasing the cost to someone that is self funding.

    Likewise with home care, the local authority will only pay a certain amount, thus any contribution that they can get from the applicant they will take it. The council want to maximise what they can claw back.

    I have always been interested in what should the care element of PIP as well as Attendance Allowance pay for. It is said that it is paid to cover the reasonable extra costs that a person incurs because of a disability.

    Yet most people who I have talked to have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try and explain what these extra costs are .When I was receiving both the high rate of care (DLA) and enhanced rate of care (PIP) there was little extra cost that I could find to cover the benefit payment. Thus the benefit payment was added to the general household income fund.
    I presume therefore that this is what is happening in this case, Social Services, try as they may, cannot find any reasonable expenditure that has to be met out of the benefit. The balance is therefore included as general income.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Hiya yes interesting thank you .they should make it much much clearer for everyone .and as for the fare charges part .I would say nothing fare about it at all!!.I will be asking the hours I can have without any of my contribution and see what she has too say .18.00 per hour is pricey and the workers themselves only get 7.pound something an hour  such a joke .
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    Shop around I think that's partly what the pip was designed for- allowing you the independence to do this. 
    Speak to others in your area if possible and compare notes, they might be able to recommend good agencies you can use.
    See what charities are around and what they might offer. 


    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Yes I agree but Ithe just dident work out for me with what they could offer .they wanted every last bit I had left and without any domestic help .going too find a good cleaner and if my pI. P payments go too the higher rate I can go back too the plan .thanks everyone who tried too help me .
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Hiya yes interesting thank you .they should make it much much clearer for everyone .and as for the fare charges part .I would say nothing fare about it at all!!.I will be asking the hours I can have without any of my contribution and see what she has too say .18.00 per hour is pricey and the workers themselves only get 7.pound something an hour  such a joke .

    Is that the rate quoted by Social Services? It sounds about right - the extra £11 an hour goes towards the Social Care budget controlled by the council.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited May 2018
    Yes I agree but Ithe just dident work out for me with what they could offer .they wanted every last bit I had left and without any domestic help .going too find a good cleaner and if my pI. P payments go too the higher rate I can go back too the plan .thanks everyone who tried too help me .

    That's exactly what we have done. Knowing how council's work there was no way that we were going to get them involved.

    Through recommendations we have found our own. All of the ironing is contracted out each week - averaging 12 shirts/tops, a complete bedding set and a few odds and ends - £12 a week AND it is collected on a Tuesday and returned on Thursday.
    We employ an old guy who does all of the garden, exterior cleaning, painting, any repairs - a general handyman etc etc. He works an 8 hour week for £40. He even sorts out the bins for us every Friday morning.
    We have a local cleaner come in once a week to vacuum, dust etc for £10.
    So for £62 a week, the vast majority of the household chores are done for us.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Thanks yes it seems the way too go .I could get almost triple the help  doing it your way .wish I had realised beforehand .it's been a long painful experience ..you live and learn ,,,
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    It's a sad fact that the benefits system actually doesn't cover the extra expenses. 
    It claims to, but it doesn't. 

    I don't iron, saves a fortune!
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    You basically have too pay the majority of it at 17.00 per hour and there limited what they can offer .cleaner  sorted today ☺
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    I find £17 an hour excessive to be honest. This is why some unfortunate people can only afford to have someone get them out of bed and leave them breakfast- twenty minutes per visit.

    It's actually cheaper for you to use online shopping, rather than going yourself in a taxi or paying someone to take you. Just shop around the companies and see who offers the best deal, what they are likely to substitute. 
    Some offer home delivery if you can get there and pick it out. 
    I guess that's the I in independence. Stands for Internet.  :)
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Oh yes thank goodness for the Internet. I buy a delivery pass too which cuts costs down a bit too .I actually feel a sense of relief sorting it myself .feel sorry for people being my coaxed intoo using the care system as it .long waits lots if calls terrible system really is .penalising the poor and in most need 
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