Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Juliette1Juliette1 Member Posts: 11 Listener
Hi
Just received my medical report back
What does non descriptors not used due to curtailment obtained mean please 

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello Juliette, on reading your post it sounds as if your acessment was halted, stopped part way through was or is that what happened?. Have you called DWP for an explanation  they should be able to give you an answer either way to reassure you of what the contents of the letter means. Good luck and keep posting and update us.
  • Juliette1Juliette1 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    No it wasnt stopped till all assesment was finished 
    Im in support group now and get enhanced pip for both care and mobility
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I think it means this...The "curtailment" means that that the the ATOS "doctor" had assessed you as already scoring 15+ points during the medical and therefore did not need to consider whether you met ESA Regulation 29. Which would indicate the WRAG and not Support Group. Does it say anywhere in that report about Support Group recommendation? or LCWRA (Support Group) if it says LCW it's WRAG.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Juliette1Juliette1 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Np doesnt say anything about a group
    Will i loose money im in support group now
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Juliette1,

    Without knowing what the rest of the report says I don't think it's possible to be sure Juliette. However as Poppy says, 'curtailment' has been used in the past when the health professional thinks you have enough points to have limited capability for work.

    The 'non-functional descriptors' are used when someone might be at risk from working or from work-related activity. If you already have limited capability for work from your points score, they don't need to consider whether work is a risk.

    However, they should really go on to look at what are called the support group descriptors - another list of things some people can't do. You only need to meet one of these to be in the support group, so we can't be sure whether you are or not. Is there anything in the rest of the report about this? Even if you don't meet one of these descriptors, the health professional should then go on to see if work-related activity (such as training courses) would be a risk to your health.

    So I don't think we can draw any conclusions about what group you are in, just yet. I'm really hoping that it is still the support group. Let us know when you get your decision!

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Juliette1Juliette1 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    I was placed in wrag 
    Done an mr 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello Juliette

    I am glad to hear that you have requested an MR.  I have put a link to the support group descriptors below. You must satisfy at least 1 descriptor to get the support component, or fall into the exceptional rule.

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors 

    The exceptional rule also applies if you can show that there would be a substantial risk if you are not placed in the support group.  You will have to show for example that your health would substantially deteriorate if  you had to for example attend work focused appointments, attend training. 

    I have detailed the above just in case your MR did not specifically cover which descriptor applies to you or why you come within the exceptional rule.  

    You can also ask for a copy of the medical assessment.  It will be interesting to know if  not for the medical being 'curtailed' the doctor would have gone onto consider descriptors that are relevant to you satisfying the support rather than WRAG component. 

    Good luck and keep us posted

    Maria

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Juliette1Juliette1 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    I have a copy of medical
  • Juliette1Juliette1 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Wasnt ask about walking 
  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    HI, sorry to add to this thread.

    My ESA85 also says, 'The non-functional descriptors were not considered for this case as curtailment applied'.

    MyESA85 also seems to contradict its self...

    Activity 17, Social Interaction 

    My report states :  'Engagement in social contact 'with someone unfamiliar to the claimant', Is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual'

    I thought, although wrongly that this descriptor would have automatically put me in the SG? Is it because of the wording, 'with someone unfamiliar'?

    In my personalised summary, it states 'Overall significant functional problems are likely with going out, engaging with strangers all of the time only.

    I am so baffled .

    Thank you in advance for any replies, you have all been great :)

    Leon630.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2019
    It's possible at the time that the decision maker went against the report, which is very rare but not totally unknown. Sadly, it's too late to do anything about it now. :(
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    Thank you for your reply poppy123456.

    I know, I just thought my post may be helpful to others :)

    Thank you again,

    Leon630

  • Catlover64Catlover64 Member Posts: 30 Connected
    Leon you are correct in your thinking. It IS a support group descriptor. (I have just gone through all this myself!) Did they award you support group?
  • Catlover64Catlover64 Member Posts: 30 Connected
    Does anyone know whether " "the non functional descriptors were not considered for this case as curtailment applied" also applies to reg 35? Because I just got my esa85 and that is what is written under "exceptional circumstances" yet I was given support group (the hcp wrote this in free text at the end of the report but it wasn't mentioned under exceptional circumstances? 
  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    Hi Catlover64,

    I was placed in the WRAG. I thought the descriptor would be automatic for SG but sadly it wasn't.

    I have my next WFI this Friday and wonder If I should take the report with me but as poppy 123456 says, I am to late to do anything about the original decision. I am already in a flipping mess about it even though I knew it was 'about' 6 months since my last one.  

    I hate this system, I would go back to work in a heartbeat if I was capable, my disability put paid to that one.

    Glad you got the correct decision Catlover64 :-) 

    Will update after Friday :-)

    Thank you for all replies, Catlover64, Poppy 123456.

    Leon630


  • Catlover64Catlover64 Member Posts: 30 Connected
    Hi Leon, I am sorry that happened, my esa85 is full of contradiction too! I read somewhere that you can ask for a MR late if you have good reason. Maybe you could look into this. What a farce this whole thing is. Good luck for Friday, please let us know how you get on.
  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    Hi Catlover64,

    I will update :) Thank you for the reply, glad to know I'm not on my own and from what I have read, I am just one of so many.

    Thank you :-)

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The maximum amount of time is 13 months and unfortunately i do believe that Leon is outside of this time frame, sadly.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    Hi Poppy123456,

    Yes, I am out of time as they say :-)

    I did speak to my local CAB about the decision at the time, but agreed it would be 'to much for me' at the time. I had my PIP assessment  not long after. I was awarded enhanced rate of both. This also contradicts the DWP HCP decision.

    The HCP for ESA states in the report  'Med 3 does not suggest there would be substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if they are found capable of work related activity'.

    As I have said in a previous thread, I am incontinent (embarrassing) . The HCP says (abbreviated) , '  has bowel incontinence, could manage with appropriate aids much better than reported at present Significant continence problems are unlikely' ...

     I mean REALLY?? Would they like to give me a warning as to when it's going to happen? I would really like to know myself as then I would be ok...

    As to my mental health, the physical side, (that I woke up with) has really not helped! Hence why I HAD to give up working..

    Tested for 'chorda equine' but it is even lower down in my spinal chord than that! My Consultant Neurologist is a baffled as I am...

    Sorry, think I was 'venting' then...   

    Anyway, maybe some of my venting may be of help to someone :-)

    Leon :-)

  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    Hi Catlover64, Poppy123456,

    Just an update on my WFI. I was able to email my work coach and arrange the interview over the phone :-). She was really nice and very understanding. She did suggest that she could put me forward for the Support Group, but I would have to have a new MA. I did say that I couldn't face one at the moment. I asked how long I had left on my current award. She told me it  is not  until February/ March 2020, so I said I would leave it until then.

    I now have another 6 months until my next WFI so I hope I can now relax for now.

    Leon630 x

  • Catlover64Catlover64 Member Posts: 30 Connected
    Oh that's good news Leon, glad you can now relax (I can't wait to retire to be away from them!)
  • Leon630Leon630 Member Posts: 24 Connected

    Thank you Catlover64,

    Think I have 12 years until I can retire (unless they change it again) lol.

    Hope you are keeping well and I really appreciate your reply :-)

    Leon x


  • dragon54dragon54 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi all,
    I'm a new member
    sorry to jump in here

    I have just had my medical report back (UC85), on reading the report i will share the last sentence of the Assessment Summary

    (Overall the evidence suggests that his mental health is vulnerable and engaging in work or work related activity would pose a substantial risk to his mental health)

    So my question, does this point towards the support group

    Thanks

    Rich
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    dragon54 said:
    Hi all,
    I'm a new member
    sorry to jump in here

    I have just had my medical report back (UC85), on reading the report i will share the last sentence of the Assessment Summary

    (Overall the evidence suggests that his mental health is vulnerable and engaging in work or work related activity would pose a substantial risk to his mental health)

    So my question, does this point towards the support group

    Thanks

    Rich
    Hi,

    Yes, that will be Support Group. You will have to wait for the decision of course but they mostly go with the report. Good luck.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • dragon54dragon54 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Thanks poppy123456

    I have just found a part of the report.

    LCW and LCWRA Information

    The first line reads

    (The client was found to meet the criteria for Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity.)


    so this defectively points towards support group, unless i'm reading it wrong 

    Thanks

    Rich
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, that's Support Group as previously advised.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
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