PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Face to Face Review?

tcellmutationtcellmutation Member Posts: 164 Pioneering
edited July 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hello, my name is Matthew. I am currently receiving the higher rate of daily living and higher rate for mobility. From 2014 - 2016 was also at the higher rate for both categories. The current award is from March 2016 - March 2020.

My letter stated that I’ve been awarded an extension because my conditions are not likely to improve.

I have the following conditions:
Encephalitis, Epilepsy, Type 1 Diabetes, Underactive Thyroid, Pernicious Anaemia and Anosmia.

Since the last review I’ve been diagnosised with T-Cell mutation which is thought to be causing my problems. It’s very rare and I’m told only around 35 known cases wordwide. Me, my mum and my sister have it. Obviously the existing conditions won’t get better as the damage has been done.

I have been watching the news recently and PIP has been under fire for its handling of...pretty much the whole PIP process.

In light of the coming shakeup I am wondering if you think I’ll be asked to a face to face interview? I know it’s far off yet, but it’s still stressful thinking about it.

My conditions effect my balance, extreme fatigue, seizures, memory problems and anxiety. I have hospital appointments at least twice a month and just spent 12 days in hospital because of a relapse of encephalitis.

Sorry for the length of this post.

Thanks, Matt

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes you will be re-assessed 1 year before your award is due to end. There's no plans for any of what was in the news a few weeks ago and for this you will need a 10 year award, as your award is until 2020 you will be re-assessed. The process will be the same as before.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • atlas46atlas46 Member Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Hi @tcellmutation
     
    A very warm welcome.

    Sorry to learn of your health problems and continuing difficulties.

    A more cautions tone, is required about the recent press release about pending changes to the PIP review process.

    On a very positive note, you were reassessed for PIP in 2016, without the need for an assessment.  That bodes well for any future review. Your review  is not required until around 2019/20.

    There has been a rise in the number of paper based reviews in the past few months.  This is another good pointer for you and me.

    The review that poppy has mentioned in passing, has grown legs.

    But again, you need to take an objective view of what has been suggested, by DWP.

    The "light touch" review by the DWP is being considered and "by the end of this summer," they will make a further statement.

    They will consider light touch reviews for claimants that get enhanced award for both components.  That means folks like us.

    Now comes the growing of legs.

    The reviews will be every 10 years and not if you have a 10 year award.

    Please note the DWP got the kicking of its lifetime, the DWP select committee report, that as published earlier this year. They asked for evidence from claimants of PIP and ESA, experience of the assessment process.

    I am glad to report, the received thousands of responses!

    Hopefully, I have put you at ease and suggest that you do not have any concerns about pending assessments. Matt, please concentrate on your health and well being.

    Let us know if you need any further assistance/support.

    Best wishes
  • tcellmutationtcellmutation Member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    Thank you for the rapid reply. I think this is the very situation that genuine claimants face. Even tho a persons review is far away it’s still there hanging over you to the point where you begin to question yourself about the daily conditions you have. I’m pleased about the upcoming DWP statement. I’m hoping that it will help people like us to feel part of society and allow us to live the best life that we can live
  • tcellmutationtcellmutation Member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    edited July 2018
    Yes you will be re-assessed 1 year before your award is due to end. There's no plans for any of what was in the news a few weeks ago and for this you will need a 10 year award, as your award is until 2020 you will be re-assessed. The process will be the same as before.
    I’m thinking along the lines of the new guidelines that will come into play at the end of this summer. Less face to face assessments and longer awards for people currently receiving the enhanced awards.

    Thinking logically...if the complaint about the DWP is making people attend face to face assessments (for enhanced awards) it doesn’t make sense for people already on the enhanced award to have “another” face to face assessment as this is exactly what they are trying to stamp out!?

    If you think about people that have just been awarded the enhanced award and it’s say...for 2 years...when the new guidelines are published at the end of summer the people that received a 2 year award will be like...”eh?! So I still have to go back in 2 years even tho the new guidelines have just been put into effect?”

    It’ll make more sense for the DWP to send out letters to people on the enhanced awards stating their term has been extended inlight of the new guidelines. Seems logical?
  • Paul7210Paul7210 Member Posts: 40 Courageous
    Hi Matthew,
                      i'm really sorry to hear of your problems, my wife has severe epilepsy and is very unlikely to get better, she got a 5 year award but as most people I also worry when the time comes to claim again.
    Paul
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    p 
    I’m thinking along the lines of the new guidelines that will come into play at the end of this summer. Less face to face assessments and longer awards for people currently receiving the enhanced awards.

    Thinking logically...if the complaint about the DWP is making people attend face to face assessments (for enhanced awards) it doesn’t make sense for people already on the enhanced award to have “another” face to face assessment as this is exactly what they are trying to stamp out!?

    If you think about people that have just been awarded the enhanced award and it’s say...for 2 years...when the new guidelines are published at the end of summer the people that received a 2 year award will be like...”eh?! So I still have to go back in 2 years even tho the new guidelines have just been put into effect?”

    It’ll make more sense for the DWP to send out letters to people on the enhanced awards stating their term has been extended inlight of the new guidelines. Seems logical?
    It's not unheard of for someone with a life limiting and degenerative condition on a say 3 year award period for Enhanced Mobility & Care to have another face to face  and be found as not entitled to anything 
    To expect to be awarded what you had before because you did is not being realistic.
    I would imagine that the new rules will be very narrowly made simply for the above reason.
    This forum and many others report those situations every day.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Paul7210 said:
    Hi Matthew,
                      i'm really sorry to hear of your problems, my wife has severe epilepsy and is very unlikely to get better, she got a 5 year award but as most people I also worry when the time comes to claim again.
    Paul

    I know how you feel, I was on a 3 year award cycle (Enhanced Mobility & Care) since 2013.  At 70 I had had enough of these re-assessments every 2 years and had my PIP claim closed down.
  • tcellmutationtcellmutation Member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    p 
    I’m thinking along the lines of the new guidelines that will come into play at the end of this summer. Less face to face assessments and longer awards for people currently receiving the enhanced awards.

    Thinking logically...if the complaint about the DWP is making people attend face to face assessments (for enhanced awards) it doesn’t make sense for people already on the enhanced award to have “another” face to face assessment as this is exactly what they are trying to stamp out!?

    If you think about people that have just been awarded the enhanced award and it’s say...for 2 years...when the new guidelines are published at the end of summer the people that received a 2 year award will be like...”eh?! So I still have to go back in 2 years even tho the new guidelines have just been put into effect?”

    It’ll make more sense for the DWP to send out letters to people on the enhanced awards stating their term has been extended inlight of the new guidelines. Seems logical?
    It's not unheard of for someone with a life limiting and degenerative condition on a say 3 year award period for Enhanced Mobility & Care to have another face to face  and be found as not entitled to anything 
    To expect to be awarded what you had before because you did is not being realistic.
    I would imagine that the new rules will be very narrowly made simply for the above reason.
    This forum and many others report those situations every day.
    As my conditions have worsened and letters say that my condition is deterierating I think I’ll be okay. If I didn’t get any benefit that would mean I was able to work and I would do anything to be healthy and work again. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    But would the deterioration translate into points?
    I'm too old to work - 70 - but it didn't stop the DWP reducing my awards 3 times since 2013 from Enhanced for both to nothing.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    @Yadnad could you please try to be less negative on your posts? Its not helpful at all.
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • tcellmutationtcellmutation Member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    Unfortunately in my case deterioration translates to...deterioration. To make things worse I received a letter today asking me to stop driving. I’m in my late 20’s and this all hit me out of the blue. My main concern now is to figure out how to come to terms with my limitations and how to maximise my quality of life. I need to plan things in advance because I cannot be spontaneous anymore. Financially not having to worry about this benefit and that benefit will allow me to maximise my quality of life in a sense that I won’t have to live day by day with my existing conditions as well as my finanical well-being.
  • sue66sue66 Member Posts: 124 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Paul7210 said:
    Hi Matthew,
                      i'm really sorry to hear of your problems, my wife has severe epilepsy and is very unlikely to get better, she got a 5 year award but as most people I also worry when the time comes to claim again.
    Paul

    I know how you feel, I was on a 3 year award cycle (Enhanced Mobility & Care) since 2013.  At 70 I had had enough of these re-assessments every 2 years and had my PIP claim closed down.
    What i dont get is how one can get an award say 1st time yet nothing with next assessment even though you answered the questions the same. If our answers got us points the first time then why not the 2cnd time. Either we answered the descriptors correctly or we didn't. Life long ailments or illnesses, that are not going to improve with time, why such short award cycles?   Hubby will be 70 next Jan and he says his not going to keep going through this every 2 or 3 yrs. Suppose we are very fortunate to at least get state pension. If your over 65 the only other option is to apply for attendance allowance but even this isn't as easy as it was a few yrs ago. Mum got £80 but doubt she would qualify for it now with a fresh claim, She is very fortunate they leave her alone as they they do with those who were fortunate enough to be born 1948 or before, this category are allowed to keep their DLA. Hubby was born 1949 so missed this sadly.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    @Yadnad could you please try to be less negative on your posts? Its not helpful at all.
    I wasn't being negative.
    The poster said that they had deteriorated. OK, but as you know, PIP is about descriptors - so does that deterioration help to give more points?
  • tcellmutationtcellmutation Member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    @Yadnad could you please try to be less negative on your posts? Its not helpful at all.
    I wasn't being negative.
    The poster said that they had deteriorated. OK, but as you know, PIP is about descriptors - so does that deterioration help to give more points?
    Yes
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    sue66 said:
    .
    What i dont get is how one can get an award say 1st time yet nothing with next assessment even though you answered the questions the same. If our answers got us points the first time then why not the 2cnd time. Either we answered the descriptors correctly or we didn't. Life long ailments or illnesses, that are not going to improve with time, why such short award cycles?   Hubby will be 70 next Jan and he says his not going to keep going through this every 2 or 3 yrs. Suppose we are very fortunate to at least get state pension. If your over 65 the only other option is to apply for attendance allowance but even this isn't as easy as it was a few yrs ago. Mum got £80 but doubt she would qualify for it now with a fresh claim, She is very fortunate they leave her alone as they they do with those who were fortunate enough to be born 1948 or before, this category are allowed to keep their DLA. Hubby was born 1949 so missed this sadly.
    It all depends on the assessor, some will give a comprehensive, honest and accurate report whilst others will go the opposite way.
    There are many cases where following a review all of the previous points have been removed.
    Also it depends on the quality of the evidence and how old it is.
    I have only just found out that the length of the award is as short as possible that the DWP can get away with. When making the claim you should give reasons why it should be as long as 10 years - do nothing and you get 3 years.
    Yes Attendance Allowance is my only option. I have downloaded the form and it is just as bad as the PIP one so I have put it aside for another day. Also the notes say that you have to have a face to face assessment as well!
    Had 3 of those in the past 5 years and certainly don't want to go through that again - all the lies etc they tell the DWP.

  • lozzer25lozzer25 Member Posts: 89 Courageous
    Hello I've just got a letter through for a face to face assessment I know I am going to be declined I have mild spastic diplegia I only applied for pip as my mobility has got worse over time although I am independently mobile I get very tired due to the spasticity in my left leg shopping is also difficult as my arms and shoulders tighten when I carry things resulting in stiffening and pain in my neck and shoulders I have adapted to my own way as I only got a diagnosis 5 years ago scared I am going to go in there and automatically going to dismiss me
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    sue66 said:
    .
    What i dont get is how one can get an award say 1st time yet nothing with next assessment even though you answered the questions the same. If our answers got us points the first time then why not the 2cnd time. Either we answered the descriptors correctly or we didn't. Life long ailments or illnesses, that are not going to improve with time, why such short award cycles?   Hubby will be 70 next Jan and he says his not going to keep going through this every 2 or 3 yrs. Suppose we are very fortunate to at least get state pension. If your over 65 the only other option is to apply for attendance allowance but even this isn't as easy as it was a few yrs ago. Mum got £80 but doubt she would qualify for it now with a fresh claim, She is very fortunate they leave her alone as they they do with those who were fortunate enough to be born 1948 or before, this category are allowed to keep their DLA. Hubby was born 1949 so missed this sadly.
    It all depends on the assessor, some will give a comprehensive, honest and accurate report whilst others will go the opposite way.
    There are many cases where following a review all of the previous points have been removed.
    Also it depends on the quality of the evidence and how old it is.
    I have only just found out that the length of the award is as short as possible that the DWP can get away with. When making the claim you should give reasons why it should be as long as 10 years - do nothing and you get 3 years.

    Yes Attendance Allowance is my only option. I have downloaded the form and it is just as bad as the PIP one so I have put it aside for another day. Also the notes say that you have to have a face to face assessment as well!
    Had 3 of those in the past 5 years and certainly don't want to go through that again - all the lies etc they tell the DWP.


    @yadnad No it's not always the case that you give reason to recieve a longer award sorry it's down to them. It's about funtional evidence not necessary the diagnosis evidence but it helps a bit.

    I was on DLA now PIP ongoing E rates. No face to face either just factual and to the point anecdotal evidence plus a little shove in the right direction too.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • lozzer25lozzer25 Member Posts: 89 Courageous
    Hello I've just got a letter through for a face to face assessment I know I am going to be declined I have mild spastic diplegia I only applied for pip as my mobility has got worse over time although I am independently mobile I get very tired due to the spasticity in my left leg shopping is also difficult as my arms and shoulders tighten when I carry things resulting in stiffening and pain in my neck and shoulders I have adapted to my own way as I only got a diagnosis 5 years ago scared I am going to go in there and automatically going to dismiss me
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member


    .
    .


    @yadnad No it's not always the case that you give reason to recieve a longer award sorry it's down to them. It's about funtional evidence not necessary the diagnosis evidence but it helps a bit.

    I was on DLA now PIP ongoing E rates. No face to face either just factual and to the point anecdotal evidence plus a little shove in the right direction too.
    I'm only repeating what Mike Hughes has said. The claimant can influence the length of the award

    Conversely he also suggests that if the award is not what you wanted then with the MR you should ask the DWP what evidence they have used that would back up the short award given. He indicates that he has never lost such a case - the DWP always backs down.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    An AA claim pack done well will rarely trigger a medical. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    An AA claim pack done well will rarely trigger a medical. 
    Thanks Mike I agree it may well be a question of degree. There's well done and there is my version of well done gained from my experience of PIP!!

    Looking at the claim form again this afternoon it all seems to be biased towards having outside carers involved or my family having to look after me on a regular basis throughout the day/night.
    Fortunately I am not in that position yet and can cope with some help from my wife. 
    PIP was all about the impact on my everyday life, but with AA there doesn't seem to be the scope of considering that.

    AA appears to be for those that can't function on a daily/nightly basis. Maybe I am in between the stages of deteriorating but not having deteriorated enough that carers have to be involved. Obviously I have aids supplied by Social Services - electric bath lift, bed riser and grab rail, raised toilet seats and a frame around both toilets - upstairs and down. I need a stick to help move about and have poor hearing and thus the NHS have supplied two hearing aids.

  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    People on here can only offer advice and opinions from their own experiences. Nothing is garaunteed. No matter who posts it, take it with a pinch of salt. Nobody here is saying if you do or say this you will 100 percent succeed. 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    @Yadnad it’s just poorly explained (as ever). AA, like DLA is about the care you reasonably require rather than actually receive. If that weren’t the case you could have someone living alone in need of 24 hour care with no relatives, friends or neighbours able to provide it and yet unable to get AA to buy it in. That would clearly be a nonsense. 

    Whether or not you reasonably require attention or supervision depends on whether you can’t do things at all without that a/s or only very slowly or only in pain. 

    You may begin to see why I say PIP is not as big a change as people think it is. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    @Yadnad it’s just poorly explained (as ever). AA, like DLA is about the care you reasonably require rather than actually receive. If that weren’t the case you could have someone living alone in need of 24 hour care with no relatives, friends or neighbours able to provide it and yet unable to get AA to buy it in. That would clearly be a nonsense. 

    Whether or not you reasonably require attention or supervision depends on whether you can’t do things at all without that a/s or only very slowly or only in pain. 

    You may begin to see why I say PIP is not as big a change as people think it is. 
    I'm coming round to that thinking myself having experienced DLA & PIP and now looking at the requirements under AA.

    A quick question? - if using the aids I have helps me and without them I would definitely need help - for example bathing. I would not be able to get in or out of the bath, nor would I be able to stand up and dry myself down, how would that work? Would having all of these aids preclude me from needing the help?

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes aids and appliances count as “simpler methods” for DLA and AA. Another thing which is a change for the better in PIP, which takes the opppsite approach.
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    I have to agree PIP for me has proved to be a better benefit than DLA @mikehughescq even though I was on indef high mobility and low care, now both Enhanced ongoing and no ftf for 10 years hopefully if I don't get a review or crock it first I can sit back for a while.

    @Yadnad If I was you just put in for AA and see what comes from it, if you don't put in for it otherwise you will never know wether you will get it or not.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    @yadnad how brave are you feeling? 

    Feel free to say no to this but, if it would help, throw one of the questions and your answer at me on here. Something you’re comfortable having discussed in public. I could then show you what, if anything, I would amend, suggest etc. 

    Will fully understand if you don’t wish to. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited July 2018
    Yes aids and appliances count as “simpler methods” for DLA and AA. Another thing which is a change for the better in PIP, which takes the opppsite approach.
    So please correct me if I am not understanding. I have aids instead of needing help of another person - call me independent - so having these aids means that the help is no longer needed and as such cannot be seen as help needed for AA purposes?

    Stairs I do have difficulties with obviously but because I don't need to use them but once in the morning and once in the evening as I have two toilets one downstairs and one up which are both adapted for me, means that the help I would need for the stairs throughout the day is no longer there?

     Put bluntly, the more adaptions and aids I have the less likely it is that I would qualify for AA?

    If that is the case your statement about someone on their own with no one to help and not having the money to pay for that help all they would need is to approach Social Services to adapt the home for their needs which would reduce their needs so therefore making themselves ineligible for AA and in consequence reduce the financial burden on the state?

    This sounds even more complex and weird than PIP does.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    First three paras. Spot on. Fourth one. Great theory but in practice people in that position rarely engage and would most likely miss out on both AA and an assessment.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    First three paras. Spot on. Fourth one. Great theory but in practice people in that position rarely engage and would most likely miss out on both AA and an assessment.
    Yipee I have managed to crack the understanding of what AA is all about!! That's the first time and first benefit that I have understood.

    So I presume that people (whether they have these aids or not) are best advised to play dumb and let the DWP think that they do require help as they have no aids???

    It is a ridiculous benefit in my opinion in that you try to be independent (in my case it's because of in our house it's very much like the blind leading the blind given my wife's problems) you become unable to claim the benefit because the help you need is met by a lump of metal/plastic instead of a person.

    Who on earth thought this through when they devised it??
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    .@Yadnad If I was you just put in for AA and see what comes from it, if you don't put in for it otherwise you will never know wether you will get it or not.
    Unfortunately I am not a chancer. This may well be the result of my military years as well as my civilian actions thinking that I was still in the army!
    I always take the view that the results - call it the sum - has to be greater than the work put in.
    Put simply, do I waste my time filling in all 30 odd pages of the form, stating the complete truth knowing that the result is more likely than not to be a refusal.

    I have been asking Mike a few questions and now have the understanding in how awards are made for AA.
    By having the aids I have installed I have removed the need for human intervention - no human intervention = no needs = no AA award.
     

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