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Assessors reports for PIP claims

Marcia54Marcia54 Member Posts: 8 Connected
edited July 2018 in Disabled people
Recieved a copy of the assessors report today, i was absolutely shocked at the discrepencies in the report. Anyone else found the same in their reports?

Replies

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Happens all the time, unfortunately.   If necessary you can ask for a mandatory reconsideration and then appeal if MR doesn't succeed. 71% of appeals win.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    Do a forum search. You’re not alone but it’s not the thing to focus on when you challenge the decision.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Marcia54,

    It's terrible, but it is extremely common. Assuming you are not happy with the decision, the thing to concentrate on is what points you should have got and why. As Mike says, don't focus too much on the errors in the report - what's more important is to talk about the evidence you have (including lived experience) which shows that points should have been awarded. 

    You can take the PIP self test here, which helps you to see what points you should have got. 

    You can complain about the report separately (to ATOS or Capita), and it can be worth contacting your MP too. But the main thing is usually to challenge the actual PIP decision and get the right result. Start with the MR, explain what you should have got, and explain what evidence supports that results. If you do need to go to an appeal, you can also talk about why the assessor's report isn't good evidence, but there is very little point complaining about the report at MR or appeal - tribunals know that they are generally of very poor quality.

    Good luck with getting the right decision on your PIP award.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • LynneRLynneR Member Posts: 13 Connected
    Completely agree it could go against you if you rely on the Tribunal taking the liescinto consideration. Unfortunately they make the hoops and we have to jump through them their way.  
  • LynneRLynneR Member Posts: 13 Connected
    One important thing to be aware of is that an MR can take away the points you have been awarded
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Most MRs make no change one way or the other.

    Tribunals are only interested in what you can and can't do.  My tribunal gave me a grilling but in the end they allowed my appeal.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    LynneR said:
    One important thing to be aware of is that an MR can take away the points you have been awarded
    Yes, but it is exceptionally rare so Not worth worrying people about. 
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    At my f2f I again was extremely shocked at the utter nonsense and lies that were reported from the assessor.. I made a complaint and I advise everyone in this position to do the same.Its disgusting that Tax payers money is wasted in such a way.  Leading people with illnesses and disabilities along the tribunal route, again a complete waste of resources. And a stressful procedure to face. If this government is trying to save money by having stricter rules how can they justify the wasted money on these corrupt assessments companies making money on the back of vulnerable people,half of tribunal rule in favour of the claimant,so surely this proves the waste of time using these companies, also I was told the company that completed my assessment, do not employ Doctors??  How can these people be qualified to disregard medical evidence from a bona fide doctor??? It all beats me !!
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    71% of tribunals win.  Yes, the system is barking and the government has its head up its jumper.  At least we know that a tribunal is likely to succeed.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    At my f2f I again was extremely shocked at the utter nonsense and lies that were reported from the assessor.. I made a complaint and I advise everyone in this position to do the same.Its disgusting that Tax payers money is wasted in such a way.  Leading people with illnesses and disabilities along the tribunal route, again a complete waste of resources. And a stressful procedure to face. If this government is trying to save money by having stricter rules how can they justify the wasted money on these corrupt assessments companies making money on the back of vulnerable people,half of tribunal rule in favour of the claimant,so surely this proves the waste of time using these companies, also I was told the company that completed my assessment, do not employ Doctors??  How can these people be qualified to disregard medical evidence from a bona fide doctor??? It all beats me !!
    Doctors diagnose and treat. HCPs assess the functional consequences of a condition. Totally different thing. They don’t disregard medical evidence. They give it less weight if it’s not explicitly directed to the descriptors. 
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    They can't do that if they are lying about what was said and put false information on thier report??  I'm not the only one saying this, so why, if there findings are correct, do so many people win on appeal? Whereby independent , sensible people with no hidden agenda, rule in favour of the claimant?
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Please just note ASOS who were the medical assessment company who was shown in a documentary to have bad practice,have now changed their name and still completing PIP assessments ??
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    IAS - but definitely not ASOS. They sell clothes :)
  • Susan3696Susan3696 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Hi all. I had my pip assessment, and couldn't wait to get out of there. I was in a lot of pain and I felt like I was in a police station being questioned, it also brought some bad child hood memory's back, which left me feeling like self harming and suicidal.  I tried for a mandatory reconsideration but was refused that as well. I suffer with RA and have presently had to have two operations for septic arthritis. The whole assessment is a waste of time and money and is extremely stressful. I don't no if mentally I could cope with going through an appeal.  Good luck to thoughts who complain about the assessees, this type of thing should not be allowed. Disabled people have enough to cope with. Our government should be ashamed of themselves.
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Just an update, sent my reconcideration last week, will loose my blue badge this week. Just tried to telephone pip, was in the phone for 86 mins, with that pre recorded music!! No answer, so I gave up. What is going on.?? 
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks for sharing this with us @Susan3696- the appeals process can feel so difficult and overwhelming, and I'm so sorry to hear that you're suffering. 

    You are a member of our community and we appreciate you. If you are having thoughts of suicide, it is important that you discuss them with someone who is qualified to help. Please call the Samaritans on 116 123 (free) or email them at [email protected]. You might also benefit from reading MIND’s information on how you can help yourself.

    If you feel that you may be an immediate danger to yourself, please call 999 or go to your local hospital right away.

    Please do keep us updated and we'll assist wherever we can. 

  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Oh no @pissedofffromhants- it's impressive that you endured that hold music for 86 minutes! Really hope you manage to get in contact soon. 
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Just an update, sent my reconcideration last week, will loose my blue badge this week. Just tried to telephone pip, was in the phone for 86 mins, with that pre recorded music!! No answer, so I gave up. What is going on.?? 
    You may still be able to keep or renew your Blue badge.  I was refused PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. I am in the process of appealing to tribunal and my Blue badge is due for renewal. After getting advice from this great forum @ Scope, I applied to my local council and I've got an appointment to get it renewed. Good luck with your MR but as with mine, I was still turned down. Fight for your rights and keep going. :)
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Thanks cazanne ,I have an assessment appointment for my blue badge mid August.x
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Oh no @pissedofffromhants- it's impressive that you endured that hold music for 86 minutes! Really hope you manage to get in contact soon. 
    Please could you pass this petion on for members to sign 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    Couldn’t possibly sign that. I do wish people would think these things through. DWP ran AA and DLA assessments from 1992. Reverting would be a marginal improvement at best. The real issues lie elsewhere in my personal view.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Couldn’t possibly sign that. I do wish people would think these things through. DWP ran AA and DLA assessments from 1992. Reverting would be a marginal improvement at best. The real issues lie elsewhere in my personal view.
    As I have said on another thread that had this petition on - I see that the problems lie mainly with the claimant when completing the claim form and the type/quality of evidence being sent in.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    Well, to some extent. A good claim form with well thought through anecdotal and other evidence can still fall foul of an idiotic assessor. If it meets the criteria it will win out in the end. There are major problems with the assessment but reverting it to DWP is mindless. As we saw under DLA for 2 decades the real issue is the culture within DWP which accepts such reports as the main source of unquestioned truth. That’s hardly going to lessen if you return assessments to them. We have 2 decades worth of evidence which says the exact opppsute will occur. 
  • curiousmom1996curiousmom1996 Member - under moderation Posts: 35 Courageous
    This is a common issue on here. My son’s first ever assessment report was full of inaccuracies. I was shocked when I viewed the assessment report. I included a lot of information on his disability. When completing the form I talked about Logan’s therapy sessions and medical appointments too. I also mentioned that he uses a wheelchair for public places and long distances as well for his mobility issues. I also wrote a paragraph about his braces and orthopedic shoes too. I made a copy of the assessment report and I decided to try contesting the decision made. Those decision makers do not know my son at all. The assessment report contained a shocking number of lies about him. 
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    please sign enough is enough. Need 10000 signitures.x
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Forward to others that are disgusted by this, your son is not the only one.. disgusting!! 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    GoForIt said:
    Forward to others that are disgusted by this, your son is not the only one.. disgusting!! 
    How exactly would this solve it?
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    Couldn’t possibly sign that. I do wish people would think these things through. DWP ran AA and DLA assessments from 1992. Reverting would be a marginal improvement at best. The real issues lie elsewhere in my personal view.
    As I have said on another thread that had this petition on - I see that the problems lie mainly with the claimant when completing the claim form and the type/quality of evidence being sent in.
    I don't want to stop pip, just want to change the  assessment process whereby assessors are lying and not completing the facts. I'm sure the claimant needs help with the application process and completing forms to meet the criteria, but these assessments companies are NOT always relaying a true picture of what is said at assessment and at times is pure lies.Thats why people should sign.di you not read the countless posts if frustrated , intelligent people who are telling this community that their assesments reports had blatant untruths.!
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    GoForIt said:
    Forward to others that are disgusted by this, your son is not the only one.. disgusting!! 
    How exactly would this solve it?
    Read it !
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    OmG.!!  I read , I see, I listen to many people !  Btw how does your comments address my post?? I don't live in your small bubble I'm pleased to say.Best wishes.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Let’s be clear, your opening sentence in this quote isn’t going to persuade a single person to sign a petition. Furthermore, the hard reality is that forums are generally full of people with complaints and thus unrepresentative. Like it or not the majority of claimants have little issue with the process and successfully navigate it without assistance. 

    I’ve come across many assessments which were delusional but the problem is the inability to correctly weigh evidence at the DWP end and not the reports in isolation. Returning it to DWP makes no difference to that as illustrated by the past 26 years of DLA and AA. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    GoForIt said:
    GoForIt said:
    Forward to others that are disgusted by this, your son is not the only one.. disgusting!! 
    How exactly would this solve it?
    Read it !
    Yup, your rudeness is winning us over one at a time!!! It is, once again, a petition which will fail miserably largely because it proposes the only outcome which is known already, through 26 years of evidence, to be worse than the current process. Aided and abetted by the rude belligerence of such as yourself it’s going nowhere fast and it’s absolutely correct that that should be the case. 
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    GoForIt said:
    GoForIt said:
    Forward to others that are disgusted by this, your son is not the only one.. disgusting!! 
    How exactly would this solve it?
    Read it !
    Yup, your rudeness is winning us over one at a time!!! It is, once again, a petition which will fail miserably largely because it proposes the only outcome which is known already, through 26 years of evidence, to be worse than the current process. Aided and abetted by the rude belligerence of such as yourself it’s going nowhere fast and it’s absolutely correct that that should be the case. 
    And you say I'm rude , I have no words.lol
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    my god ?are we all just here to be rude to each other.Why are two always putting others down?
     shocking 

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    You’ve posted the link to the petition on two threads. Hijacking a thread thinking you can somehow channel anger at independent assessments isn’t winning you much in the way of votes either. Yet to see you come up with an argument to counter the key point I’ve made. When you do that there may be something to discuss.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed,To allow them to get away with it time after time just gives more stress to the person claiming

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    sweet said:
    my god ?are we all just here to be rude to each other.Why are two always putting others down?
     shocking 

    I’m actively putting down the petition. The person who posted it is behaving in such a way as to put most people off by telling people to go back and read posts; accusing people of assuming claimants are idiots and so on. I’ve put together a coherent argument as to why the petition is a waste of time. I’ve yet to see a counter argument. They also don’t seem especially well informed given that they’ve brought national insurance into this when the benefit in question has no NI component. 

    There should be anger at the assessment process and at the privatisation of elements but this petition, in common with many similar ones, offers a solution which is utterly bizarre.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    sweet said:
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed,To allow them to get away with it time after time just gives more stress to the person claiming

    It is incorrect to say “most”. The Work and Pensions committee took evidence on the point and had the largest number of responses in their existence. Even they said “For the majority of claimants the assessments work adequately”. Please don’t confuse posts on a forum with fact. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    sweet said:
    my god ?are we all just here to be rude to each other.Why are two always putting others down?
     shocking 

    I’m actively putting down the petition. The person who posted it is behaving in such a way as to put most people off by telling people to go back and read posts; accusing people of assuming claimants are idiots and so on. I’ve put together a coherent argument as to why the petition is a waste of time. I’ve yet to see a counter argument. They also don’t seem especially well informed given that they’ve brought national insurance into this when the benefit in question has no NI component. 

    There should be anger at the assessment process and at the privatisation of elements but this petition, in common with many similar ones, offers a solution which is utterly bizarre.
    if you do not try you do not gain

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    Actually, if you don’t make any kind of sane case for it... then yeah, you don’t gain. A stupid argument is a stupid argument no matter which way you dress it up. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Actually, if you don’t make any kind of sane case for it... then yeah, you don’t gain. A stupid argument is a stupid argument no matter which way you dress it up. 
    well? and you would have a good argument for it i suppose it is fact that there are far to many lies by those who write reports 

  • LynneRLynneR Member Posts: 13 Connected
    I came to this site for help because I have reached a point where I don't know where to turn next. To find this level of belligerence and open aggression makes me despair.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    LynneR said:
    I came to this site for help because I have reached a point where I don't know where to turn next. To find this level of belligerence and open aggression makes me despair.
    Is there something specific you’re looking for? It may help us get back on topic after the distraction.
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 851 Pioneering
    edited August 2018
    LynneR said:
    I came to this site for help because I have reached a point where I don't know where to turn next. To find this level of belligerence and open aggression makes me despair.

    @LynneR I'm sorry you've come here and seen and subjected to this carry on, this is not normally like this here and everyone is very helpful as a rule.

    I think because the sun has gone in everyone has got a little moody. :'(

    Just ask in a thread what sort of help you require and some one nice will help you. God bless.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election video for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    LynneR said:
    I came to this site for help because I have reached a point where I don't know where to turn next. To find this level of belligerence and open aggression makes me despair.
    sad to hear this but it is only one or two who seem to do this ?if you would like to tell us how we may help please do
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    sweet said:
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    Yadnad said:
    GoForIt said:
    Do you think all claimants are idiots! If these assessments are grossly misrepresented, how can people get a fair hearing. People that are unwell, have sick and disabled relative's  have paid their national insurance for years need these assors to give fair , unbiased reports .
    Those reports are nothing more than the opinion of one person.
    If they were reports that were factual then that is a different thing.
    Everybody can have an opinion, a statement of fact is something totally different. 
    I doubt very much that either the DWP or assessors would be prepared to stick their neck on the line to issue such a report.

    If you asked a financial advisor for written advice on your financial circumstances would you prefer his opinion (what he thinks might happen or what could be the best for you) or would you want a factual report (setting out the likely consequences and advising what action you should be taking)?

    You would be hard pushed to be able to get redress in the form of compensation for an opinion but you certainly could if it was a statement of fact.
    most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed,To allow them to get away with it time after time just gives more stress to the person claiming

    It is incorrect to say “most”. The Work and Pensions committee took evidence on the point and had the largest number of responses in their existence. Even they said “For the majority of claimants the assessments work adequately”. Please don’t confuse posts on a forum with fact. 
    here youu are mike a link for you to read half of which is ignored by dwp ohhhh and i watch all commitee hearings and parlianent dailyhttps://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmworpen/829/82910.htm#_idTextAnchor054
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    Not quite sure why you would post a link from which I already quoted in my previous post. Does kinda suggest you didn’t read the opening sentence of the very thing you posted! 
  • GoForItGoForIt Member Posts: 39 Connected
    sweet said:
    LynneR said:
    I came to this site for help because I have reached a point where I don't know where to turn next. To find this level of belligerence and open aggression makes me despair.
    sad to hear this but it is only one or two who seem to do this ?if you would like to tell us how we may help please do
    Thanks sweet,  I'm sorry lynnr. Every time I post I have 2 very aggressive people,put me down at every turn.i am no longer going to post on this site.prehaps the 2 in question are ATOS assors lol. Good luck and best wishes to all who are going through this process. .
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @GoForIt

    To avoid reading the posts of any people that you don't care to read, go to their profiles and select the 'ignore' option in the drop-down menu.  You will then no longer be able to read the posts of those people.  So, no need to avoid some threads, let alone leave the forum.
  • LynneRLynneR Member Posts: 13 Connected
    Thanks for thinking of me. I am worried because we had to go to a Tribunal last time to get my husband's PIP reinstated although he still lost the car. He has an assessment on July 30th and was 65 on August 8th. I have several health problems and am waiting for help as I have been diagnosed with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome as well as the other pre existing problems. We have the severe disability payments and that helps me buy pre prepared vegetables, and nutritious food. We can also have it delivered. If he loses his PIP again obviously those payments stop as well and I was wondering about an appeal, not expecting the MR to change the decision, now that he is 65, although he was 64 when this started. I would be grateful for any help. My brother in law is terminally ill in a hospice 300 miles away and I'm finding it difficult to stay focused.
  • Susan3696Susan3696 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Thanks for your feed back guys. I'm OK, put in for appeal,  have heard appeals are not interested in what your health problems are, but its about credibility and proving you are more credible than the assessors at DWP. You do still need to explain your illness and how it effects you,  but explain any discrepancies etc and also forward medical records etc, but don't do that until after you have sent for your appeal and received your bundle from appealing. I have done a lot of research in to the appeals and the tribunal process and any evidence you can get, doctors letters,  hospital admissions etc would be a great help in proving your case. Good luck x
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @LynneR

    Sorry to hear of your difficulties.  Try to stay focused.  There is help available.

    As the PIP claim was made pre-age 65, if he loses PIP and then wins an appeal your husband will keep his PIP and associated benefits.

    Try to get some f2f advice from CAB, or similar, or welfare rights.  Age UK has a helpline.

    Disability Rights UK site has a good guide to all stages of PIP including appeals.


  • LynneRLynneR Member Posts: 13 Connected
    The big problem is evidence. Our GP surgery does not do letters. Whatever anyone says they just don't ever provide them. Second problem is that husband's Rheumatologist came out to our local hospital. He was either taken ill or seconded, and for two years despite asking, no care at all was given until February this year when a locum did a one off. Thats the state of his evidence
    Without the disability payments and just the basic pension it's going to be difficult.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Every case is different, Lynne.  But at my appeal the only medical evidence I had was from 19 years earlier when I first claimed DLA, though I do have a degenerative disease that causes disability.  My most important evidence was my own oral testimony on the day and I won my appeal.

    You can request your medical records from your GP surgery.  This is a legal right and i think it's free.  Scope Helpline could give you more info about this.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    LynneR said:
    The big problem is evidence. Our GP surgery does not do letters. Whatever anyone says they just don't ever provide them. Second problem is that husband's Rheumatologist came out to our local hospital. He was either taken ill or seconded, and for two years despite asking, no care at all was given until February this year when a locum did a one off. Thats the state of his evidence
    Without the disability payments and just the basic pension it's going to be difficult.
    Medical evidence is of limited use as it’s directed towards diagnosis, prognosis, symptoms and meds. If those things are not in dispute then the evidence adds no value so it’s not worth getting worked up about its absence. Neither your GP nor a consultant know anything about your mobility and daily loving needs other than what you tell them. Having them repeat that adds credibility but it’s nit really medical evidence then. 

    At this stage focus on the specific points you think you score and then think of 2 or 3 recent examples per activity around what happens when you last tried or need to do that specific points scoring activity. Detail the when, where, how, witnesses, treatment etc. That’s far better evidence than some generalised letter from a medical professional. 
  • LynneRLynneR Member Posts: 13 Connected
    Thanks the last tribunal I was my husband's representative as he is dyslexic I'd done the writing though all the words were his and he also has a speech impediment which is much worse when he's nervous. The chairman took a dislike to me. Was very sarcastic and didn't allow me to speak. The tribunal was a farce, he got the care points back but he couldn't answer the questions about his being able to plan and follow an unfamiliar route as they threw a hypothetical question at him. They said to imagine we were in Cardiff IKEA and I got a phone call to say my great aunt Maude had been taken ill. So I was supposed to take the car leaving him alone in Cardiff. He just couldn't answer it because never in a million years would I do that. They led him, by questions, to say he would find customer services and ask for a taxi. There are so many things wrong with that, for it to be used as evidence on his ability to plan and follow an unfamiliar route is farcical. I was warned not to speak.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    There are clearly defined roles in a tribunal. Appellant, witness, observer or representative. If the appellant attends and you’re not their appointee then a tribunal will always expect them to speak for themselves however little they may be able to do that. Letting them do it is one of the ways to win an appeal. 

    I doubt the judge will have taken against you personally. More they will have been frustrated that you perhaps didn’t understand the specific roles. As a representative you do not get to speak for the appellant. You get to present the legal case and no more. You can also be a witness and give evidence if it’s something you have first hand experience of but that gets messy if it’s evidence your husband could have given many judges will deny you the opportunity, sometimes wrongly, because it’s not clear which hat you have on when you speak.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 918 Pioneering
    @GoForIt @Yadnad @mikehughescq I agree that with many people the forms and evidence aren't up to spec (although this is often because people have no idea what the DWP wants). Mine, however, was well-written, had good evidence, anecdotes, the whole shebang. The assessor didn't read my forms or FME. Neither did the CM. Full of massive errors (no self harm, no specialist mental health input, no specialist input for chronic pain - all false, all written in forms with FME to back them up. Ridiculous.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    My tribunal tried to lead me (it's one of tribunals' tactics) but I wouldn't be led, stuck to my original answers.
  • Susan3696Susan3696 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Just received my acknowledgement letter from the appeals court and am curious as to why it was sent to Cardiff when I sent it to Bradford? Any one know? X

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    I think there's a central processing office who then send completed forms to local area offices to deal with.
  • Susan3696Susan3696 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Aww thank you Matilda. Was curious, seems daft though. X
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Not quite sure why you would post a link from which I already quoted in my previous post. Does kinda suggest you didn’t read the opening sentence of the very thing you posted! 
    ohh sorry  i posted it to show you i take note and also am aware of select comittees job and intrest in facts but if you concider 200.000plus haveing prob with claims well i have a big one in that lies on forms by hcp are getting worse

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    sweet said:
    Not quite sure why you would post a link from which I already quoted in my previous post. Does kinda suggest you didn’t read the opening sentence of the very thing you posted! 
    ohh sorry  i posted it to show you i take note and also am aware of select comittees job and intrest in facts but if you concider 200.000plus haveing prob with claims well i have a big one in that lies on forms by hcp are getting worse

    If you’d read it you’d have noted that I was one if the people who contributed to it and my contribution was somewhere between vitriolic.
  • brentusbrentus Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Received the Dwp reply to my MR request recently,the assessor manipulated my answers on several occasions.I was asked how far i could walk. I replied i didnt know a specific distance so she asked for how long i coukd walk,i replied i dont know but not for long,she asked 'for a minute?' I replied no. That was it,in the report she reported i said i could walk for just under a minute. Big difference,as i didnt say that. She said i was using non prescribed crutches,implying i didnt need them,even though i told her the doctor said I'd need them for rest of my life and only didnt prescribe them because i already had some.I wont waffle on anymore sorry,just wanted to give examples of how you can lose your benefits purley down to how evil the assessor is 😅😅😅😈😈😈.Obviously in the job to get people off benefits.
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Think this thread needs closed due to the negativity 

    Be nice to each other for god sake!
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    As I've said above, there is the 'ignore' option.  People can then be blissfully unaware of posts by negative people.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    @sweet the reason I took issue with a post of yours is because you said

    “... most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed”.

    In response to that I said

    ”It is incorrect to say “most”. The Work and Pensions committee took evidence on the point and had the largest number of responses in their existence. Even they said “For the majority of claimants the assessments work adequately”. Please don’t confuse posts on a forum with fact.”

    You have since posted a link to the very document I quoted from and contributed to and yet you persist in insisting it proves your point. It does not. It says, as per the above, “For the majority the assessments work adequately.” It’s wholly unclear to me why you would persist in arguing it says something it patently doesn’t. 

    Am I saying all is well? No. Indeed I provided numerous examples of exactly what’s wrong with the process in my submission. What I am saying is that, in this context, to suggest that “most” assessors lie is not only wrong but demonstrably so using the very document you cite. 

    @Matilda offers good advice in respect of the ignore button although it hasn’t served her well when she’s posted on threads where others have already posted advice which wholly contradicts hers. So using the ignore button has unforeseen consequences too. 

    @susan48 I see no reason to close the thread unless it veers off topic again. Nobody, bar one person, has attacked personalities or individuals. This is a disagreement on a factual matter. Provided it’s not abusive and doesn’t breach forum rules I see no difficulty with people disagreeing. That’s the nature of discussion. It would be very boring if we all agreed all of the time. How we disagree is what matters.

    Where I do take issue is with @GoForIt and that is for two reasons. 

    1) They hijacked a thread to post a petition. The petition was absolutely on topic. Their reaction to more than one person commenting on the nature of the petition and their advocacy of it was, shall we say, unhelpful.

    2) Went out of their way to locate my wall and post personal comments on it. I have deleted but not reported these. I will report them next time. On a forum where any number of people could be on the spectrum I wonder how many people would feel it appropriate to target an online personality for criticism and comment? By all means disagree with a post or an issue but attacking the person/personality can never be acceptable.

    I have no knowledge of this person nor them me so I cannot comment on their personality and nor would I wish to. Their actions however speak for themselves. 
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq, the point I was making by closing this down was to stop all the bickering. Simple.

    If your happy to continue to do so then that’s your choice but there are others on this forum that don’t want or need to read this negative stuff.

    And before you say, I know I don’t have to read it or I can use the ignore button but remember there are new members joining this forum all the time and what message does negative post say.


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    susan48 said:
    @mikehughescq, the point I was making by closing this down was to stop all the bickering. Simple.

    If your happy to continue to do so then that’s your choice but there are others on this forum that don’t want or need to read this negative stuff.

    And before you say, I know I don’t have to read it or I can use the ignore button but remember there are new members joining this forum all the time and what message does negative post say.


    Could you explain what is negative about offering a different view; explaining about a factual inaccuracy or calling out abuse? Why have a forum if alternative perspectives are shut down or factual inaccuracies are allowed to proliferate? Why should the opinion which dominates be the one that accuses @yadnad of "living in a bubble" for example or demanding of me "Do you think all claimants are idiots!"

    If you would like the thread closed down you need to find an offensive post and report it. You don't get explicitly asked what outcome you would like but there's enough space for you to make it clear.

    I realise it's a big ask but if you re-read the thread from the top then it becomes apparent that one poster has made several aggressive and unnecessary comments to at least two of us. As the poster will still be on the forum closing the thread will not actually solve that approach. It will appear on other threads as the petition has.

    It would be unfortunate if that poster were to be banned or leave because in an earlier post they describe their PIP experience and, whilst far from unique, it has clearly had real and serious consequences for them. There is much they could gain from this forum far beyond just the fact there are other people like them.

    However, the fact that people such as myself disagree with the petition they have posted is no reason for the kind of comments described above.

    It is absolutely true that a significant proportion of HCP reports contain inaccuracies. Some of them are indeed appalling and the consequences are serious and potentially harmful. It is pointless calling them "lies" as that cannot be proven without an actual transcript. It is not true to say that "most" reports "indisputably" contain lies. Indeed the Work and Pensions committee explicitly say to the contrary and yet the petition itself offers a solution of reverting to a DLA process which was just as bad in most ways partly because of the content of reports but mostly because of the DWP approach to evidence.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    edited August 2018
    @sweet the reason I took issue with a post of yours is because you said

    “... most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed”.

    In response to that I said

    ”It is incorrect to say “most”. The Work and Pensions committee took evidence on the point and had the largest number of responses in their existence. Even they said “For the majority of claimants the assessments work adequately”. Please don’t confuse posts on a forum with fact.”

    You have since posted a link to the very document I quoted from and contributed to and yet you persist in insisting it proves your point. It does not. It says, as per the above, “For the majority the assessments work adequately.” It’s wholly unclear to me why you would persist in arguing it says something it patently doesn’t. 

    Am I saying all is well? No. Indeed I provided numerous examples of exactly what’s wrong with the process in my submission. What I am saying is that, in this context, to suggest that “most” assessors lie is not only wrong but demonstrably so using the very document you cite. 

    @Matilda offers good advice in respect of the ignore button although it hasn’t served her well when she’s posted on threads where others have already posted advice which wholly contradicts hers. So using the ignore button has unforeseen consequences too. 

    @susan48 I see no reason to close the thread unless it veers off topic again. Nobody, bar one person, has attacked personalities or individuals. This is a disagreement on a factual matter. Provided it’s not abusive and doesn’t breach forum rules I see no difficulty with people disagreeing. That’s the nature of discussion. It would be very boring if we all agreed all of the time. How we disagree is what matters.

    Where I do take issue is with @GoForIt and that is for two reasons. 

    1) They hijacked a thread to post a petition. The petition was absolutely on topic. Their reaction to more than one person commenting on the nature of the petition and their advocacy of it was, shall we say, unhelpful.

    2) Went out of their way to locate my wall and post personal comments on it. I have deleted but not reported these. I will report them next time. On a forum where any number of people could be on the spectrum I wonder how many people would feel it appropriate to target an online personality for criticism and comment? By all means disagree with a post or an issue but attacking the person/personality can never be acceptable.

    I have no knowledge of this person nor them me so I cannot comment on their personality and nor would I wish to. Their actions however speak for themselves. 
    just a  min here you seem to be implying i am thick and you know better i answered this post in such that are we here to argue with each other NOW you seem intent on acting as if i am in the wrong ?you seem to be very negative if others comment perhaps you should concider chilling out before you answer your tone to me is not nice nor needed

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    In terms of what I described above, yes, you are completely incorrect and it’s demonstrable beyond doubt. It is not “most” HCP who are liars and nor did the Work and Pensions committee say that. 

    I have neither said nor implied you are thick. Nor would I. Being wrong does not make anyone thick. Nor does it make them always wrong. It makes them wrong on this occasion. No more no less. 

    I’m quite chilled but thank you for your concern.


  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @sweet

    I think you've missed the point about my use of the 'ignore' button.  I have no objection to others posting points of view that differ from my own, either before or after my own posts.  The number of people I have ignored is very tiny indeed and is confined to those who appear to think that their opinions are the only ones that count, to put it no stronger.  I simply have no interest in reading their posts.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    sweet said:


    most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed,To allow them to get away with it time after time just gives more stress to the person claiming

    Sorry but you are way off the mark. The vast majority of PIP applications, assessments & decisions are fully accepted by the claimant as being satisfactory.

    It is only a very small percentage of claimants who find that things go wrong.

    Your suggestion that 'most' claimants have problems is therefore exaggerated and wrong
     
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    so my post needs monitering because i disagree ummmmm but rudeness and ignorance to others is fine
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    Yawn. With all due respect please don’t just make it up as you go along to perpetuate a disagreement which is over. The use of the word “most” was demonstrably incorrect. No-one in the entire thread has suggested you need monitoring. Nor has anyone been rude to you. Feel free to post the direct quotes from anywhere in the thread. 

    If ignorance, whatever that might mean, to others is an issue then they are free to raise it but, given that no-one else has mentioned such a thing, I’m not sure why you feel the need to raise an imaginary thing on behalf of others who haven’t raised it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yawn. With all due respect please don’t just make it up as you go along to perpetuate a disagreement which is over. The use of the word “most” was demonstrably incorrect. No-one in the entire thread has suggested you need monitoring. Nor has anyone been rude to you. Feel free to post the direct quotes from anywhere in the thread. 

    If ignorance, whatever that might mean, to others is an issue then they are free to raise it but, given that no-one else has mentioned such a thing, I’m not sure why you feel the need to raise an imaginary thing on behalf of others who haven’t raised it.
    yawnnnnnn      ohh dear you are showing the true side how childish are you  now you have shown your ignorance ??as to monitered my post stated it went to moniter i wonder mike are you a moderater is that how you can be so bad in your attitude      it seems i may be the third poster in tthree days treated like below your ability as an exspert

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    there is a post respect ??i note it is ignored by you perhaps you could go on and exsplain wehy you seem to lack it

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    edited August 2018
    another post waiting to be approved hahaha are you and yadd moderaters mr hughes



  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    IAS - but definitely not ASOS. They sell clothes :)
    demeaning mike to point out someones spelling is both child like and rude and with an emo disgusting
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    sweet said:
    there is a post respect ??i note it is ignored by you perhaps you could go on and exsplain wehy you seem to lack it

    Which post please? I’ve ignored nothing. You posted a link to a document which completely refuted your own assertion that “most” HCPs lie. I even quoted directly from it. Kind of ended the discussion on that point although, for reasons which escape me, you seem to think not. 

    As for the post re: ASOS it was a light-hearted joke and not a dig. Thus the emoji.  I’m more than happy to publicly apologise if a rare bit of humour from me didn’t translate but on the other hand if you had a problem with it you’ve long had the option to do so by either saying so or reporting it. You did neither but decided to wait until now, which would strike most people as passive aggressive hypocrisy. It strikes me you’d rather perpetuate this nonsense than accept an apology. 
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Morning everyone  :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yadnad said:
    sweet said:


    most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed,To allow them to get away with it time after time just gives more stress to the person claiming

    Sorry but you are way off the mark. The vast majority of PIP applications, assessments & decisions are fully accepted by the claimant as being satisfactory.

    It is only a very small percentage of claimants who find that things go wrong.

    Your suggestion that 'most' claimants have problems is therefore exaggerated and wrong
     
    and you would know this how??? the people who use these sites do so for a reason and it is not because they have had a good acess mant you are now quoating from reports word for word dwp statemant  STRANGE? i will end this post with i am not intrested in your view nor mikes as so far you both back each other up with suttle insults to other posters And i hope anyone else who thinks they had a lier can sort it out without asking on here as it is clear we all must be daft but dwp acessers are not

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yadnad said:
    sweet said:


    most that have acessmants find that the person doing it has lied that cannot be disputed,To allow them to get away with it time after time just gives more stress to the person claiming

    Sorry but you are way off the mark. The vast majority of PIP applications, assessments & decisions are fully accepted by the claimant as being satisfactory.

    It is only a very small percentage of claimants who find that things go wrong.

    Your suggestion that 'most' claimants have problems is therefore exaggerated and wrong
     
    is it ???? and useing word for word the statemant issued by dwp makes me think just who you are
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 851 Pioneering
    edited August 2018
    Oh the joys of politeness and respect? Where is it nowdays! Please folks have respect for each other costs nothing.

    everyone should realise this is an open forum and you will get folks that work for the DWP and assessment providers on here looking at all your reply's?

    Just always be mindful what you post as everyone has an opinion.

    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election video for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Morning everyone,

    We want the community to be a safe and supportive place. Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you don’t agree with them.

    Take care to present your views tactfully and remember that humour may be misinterpreted. 

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    i think that we all may misread others comments  but myself would not tell anyone they are wrong on their dealings or how they felt delt with by dwp  we can only give our view as we see it  scope has plenty of posters haveing great problems with claims indeed so did i  purely down to written report by others  BUT  anyway the post is over done dusted
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,371 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    Nobody has told you how to feel about your dealings with the DWP so please stop making this stuff up. Ditto not telling people they’re wrong. You’ve explicitly challenged both @Yadnad and I, accused us of collusion; implied he works for DWP; taken offence at humour on behalf of other people who didn’t take offence and so on. It’s a pretty long and offensive roll call of petty, insidious abuse and I’d strongly suggest you need to cease it now. 

    Heaven help us if people want to live in a world where nobody can be wrong. A post truth/fake news world indeed.

    [paragraph removed by moderator in accordance with community guidelines]
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    This discussion is now closed. 
This discussion has been closed.