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Tribunal backpay

soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener

Hello. First post. So i won my sons tribunal from November 2017. As i was waiting i had more evidence and because im new to this i phoned the DWP to ask about sending it in they said it'll be easier and quicker with new evidence to do a new claim, so i did. Also refused. Anyway i left it. Went to tribunal august 18 and won HRC from nov 17 till january 19 as the tribual award letter states. Now ive found out that cause i lodged another form whislt waiting even tho it was refused the tribunal decision doesn't stand??? Is this right. I had no idea and wasnt informed , im absolutley devasted. please help. Will they do what tribunal says and pay november 17 till jan19

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Yes, that is correct i'm afraid. Any decision for a new claim will overrule a Tribunal decision. It was a bad decision to start a new claim while waiting for a Tribunal. You will be backdated the money up until the date you started the new claim though. 

    Did you ask for a mandatory reconsideration on the new claim? 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    No cause i just thought id leave it to tribunal . im so annoyed i assumed dwp was giving me correct advise
    is there anyway i can argue this

  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    i dont understand why though as it wasn't even an active claim as it got refused the decision for tribunal should still stand as it was regarding a previous claim renewal 
    im so annoyed and feel like giving up. all that wait for nothing. i was distraught after the tribunal as it was a massive grilling

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The Tribunal was a decision from a previous claim and you started a new claim and that's why the new decision overrules the Tribunal decision. It's not always a good idea to start a new claim when waiting for a Tribunal and you do take a huge risk by doing this. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    i didn't know that it wasn't explained to me or i wouldn't have done
    im so mad and upset 
    is there anyhting i can do to argue it as the tribunal paperwork states 25/11/2017-01/01/2019
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    so shall i just forget the tribunal and just send another form in. or just give up, i cant do another tribunal itll physically kill me

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I think the best you can hope for here is they will backdate you the money up until the decision was made on the new claim. When was the decision made on the new claim? 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    form submitted end of jan 2018 and decision april 2018

  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    i relaly didnt know this and now im so upset i wish the dwp told me this

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    soplou89 said:
    im so annoyed i assumed dwp was giving me correct advise
    is there anyway i can argue this

    oops par for the course I am afraid. I too learnt the hard way by listening to the DWP assuming that they at least should know what is the correct way of doing things. 
    As for how you sort this mess out you are better guided by others on this site.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    think im just gonna phone dla and sack it all off far to much hassle. now i feel the advisor told me that to do me out of my money i feel so stupid

  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Yadnad said:
    soplou89 said:
    im so annoyed i assumed dwp was giving me correct advise
    is there anyway i can argue this

    oops par for the course I am afraid. I too learnt the hard way by listening to the DWP assuming that they at least should know what is the correct way of doing things. 
    As for how you sort this mess out you are better guided by others on this site.
    Did you do the same as me

  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Is there any way they will honour what tribunal has said

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    You really shouldn't take the DWP's word for it and always get further advice before doing anything else. The advisers for DWP mostly read from a screen and have no further knowledge. Had the Tribunal decision been made before the new claim decision then you may have been able to do something about the new claim but now that's most likely not going to be possible. As the decision on the new claim was made in April, backdated money will be received up until that date.

    You do also have 13 months to ask for a mandatory reconsideration, with good reasons of course. You could try going down the MR route for the new decision made in April, followed by another tribunal if that fails. I'd hold on to see what others advise before doing anything else. OR get further advice from your local welfare rights or other disability advice centre near you. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    soplou89 said:
    Yadnad said:
    soplou89 said:
    im so annoyed i assumed dwp was giving me correct advise
    is there anyway i can argue this

    oops par for the course I am afraid. I too learnt the hard way by listening to the DWP assuming that they at least should know what is the correct way of doing things. 
    As for how you sort this mess out you are better guided by others on this site.
    Did you do the same as me

    What, take the word of the DWP as to how things should be done? Yes but not for PIP. Mine was for Pension Credit. 

    It appears now that they were wrong in closing down a claim and to make matters worse they told me to put a new claim in as I was not allowed to appeal against their decision.
    Obviously I complied with what they said. The result of which was the loss of benefit for nearly 9 months at the rate of just under £50 a week. Additionally I had to pay full council tax of £34 a week and help with the mortgage interest of another £44 a week, making the total loss of just under £5000. On top of this we 
    had to pay our bills and live which resulted in both our savings being used as well as a credit card. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq your expert knowledge would be appreciated here please. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    so it will atleast deffo be backdated till the DECSION on the new one and not the date i sent the form in?
    so my son isnt on HRC as it stands now regardless of the decsion
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It should be yes. No, because the decision on the new claim overrules the Tribunal decision on the previous claim. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    OK 
    Thanks 

    I'm feeling very low atm so just gonna forget about it all
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,370 Disability Gamechanger
    To maybe clarify what’s happened here a little more... this is a prime example of exactly how all that well meaning advice on here of “just put in a new claim” can go horribly wrong.

    When you appeal a decision for PIP a tribunal are looking at the period from 3 months before the date of claim as far forward as they feel it appropriate, The moment you put in a new claim your appeal is limited to the day before your new claim regardless of the outcome of the new claim. The appeal becomes about what’s called a closed period. A tribunal might want to award for longer and indeed can do who but the effect of the 2nd claim is always to limit the appeal to the date before any new claim. 

    To be fair this is perfectly logical. Imagine what would happen to those people who put in claim after claim after appearing theur first refusal. Those subsequent claims could all legitimately result in different and overlapping awards and if you wanted them all to be the same period you would have to challenge each one individually. The appeals system would quickly grind to a halt (and yes I know that it’s legitimate to argue that it has anyway). 

    Can you unravel this? Yes, but not via the tribunal. 

    What should happen is that DWP should now be asked to use the tribunal decision as evidence to supersede the refusal of the 2nd claim. A supersession is just a request to look again at the decision with very specifc grounds to do so. The grounds would be that the decision is now known to have been made in ignorance of a material fact i.e. that the tribunal award ran for longer. If DWP refuse to supersede that’s fine. You don’t have to go for another MR. You can simply appeal their refusal to supersede. 

    Now, before you embark on this I would like to make 2 further suggestions.

    1 - get yourself proper representation.

    2 - have a think about whether the tribunal decision was in fact correct. Would there be legitimate reasons to review the entitlement in 2019 or is it factually the case that an ongoing award would be more appropriate? If the latter is true then you need to ask for a statement of reasons and a record of proceedings with a view to appealing to the UT on a point of law re: the evidence for a time limited award. 

    You can use the decision as it stands to supersede the 2nd claim refusal but if you can also get the tribunal decision changed to ongoing that would also help. 
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    OK I'm not sure exactly what you mean but is this is kow I read it 

    The tribunal regardless of dates written will only pay till the day my 2nd claim was refused
    I can however phone dla and ask them to reconsider the 2nd claim because of the tribunals decision and they may allow the claim due to the tribunals decision?

    If I were to do this I have a few questions 

    Will it affect when I receive my back pay as I have things I need to pay for for my sons care. 

    How long will this take 

    What's the chances of them agreeing 
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Also can I add its DLA not PIP
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,370 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry, I’d missed that it’s DLA. In that case ignore my suggestion of appealing on a point of law. On the rest, yes, you have the gist of it but there’s no point in doing this by phone. You’ll have no evidence of what happens and will most likely end up talking to an outsourced call centre bod who knows less about the jaw than the DWP (and that’s saying something). Do it in writing and keep a copy. Enclose a copy of the tribunal decision (but for goodness sake keep a copy of that also). 

    In terms of time-scale there’s no way of telling what impact it will have but there’s no guarantee you’d have the time limited/closed period arrears quickly either so you have nothing to lose.  
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Fab I shall do this 
    Is there any where I can go to help me draft a letter 

    Thank god all is not lost thanks 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,370 Disability Gamechanger
    Independent advice centre, law centre, local authority welfare rights etc.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Ah fab I'll check it out 

    But if that fails will I get backdated to the date the decision on the 2nd form was made or when I sent it in

    You've made me feel tons better 
    Tbanks 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,370 Disability Gamechanger
    The day before the day the second claim was registered as a claim by DWP.
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    So when it was sent in? Not the decision date 
  • soplou89soplou89 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    So just to update 
    I had a call from decision maker yesterday who has said they are honouring the tribunals decision and paying me the full award 

    Payment for full backpay has been issued  
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