What do you take to a tribunal? — Scope | Disability forum
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What do you take to a tribunal?

dannymanutd
dannymanutd Member Posts: 4 Listener
edited September 2018 in PIP, DLA, and AA
hi all will have my tribunal soon what should i take with me thanks 

Comments

  • Ami2301
    Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,941 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @dannymanutd
    Welcome to the community! Lots of members of the community have gone through the tribunal process and I'm sure will be in contact with you soon to advise you! :)
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • Chloe_Scope
    Chloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,565 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @dannymanutd and welcome to the community! Hope you are doing okay. I will move this to the benefit section of the community and hope people can be in touch!
    Scope

  • shayjay
    shayjay Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi I've got my sons pip appeal tomorrow . At the civil justice centre Manchester , wish me luck !!!!!! . 
  • dannymanutd
    dannymanutd Member Posts: 4 Listener
    good luck what have you been told to take mine will be at Liverpool thanks 
  • Sam_Alumni
    Sam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,682 Disability Gamechanger
    Good luck @shayjay let us know how you get on!

    @dannymanutd - the advice simply says:
    Bring along all relevant documents that you have, including medical evidence and anything related to your original claim or appeal. It’s also a good idea to take notes of what you want to say that you can refer to in order to get your point across.

    There is more information here.
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • dannymanutd
    dannymanutd Member Posts: 4 Listener
    @Sam_Scope even if they have that information already?
  • Sam_Alumni
    Sam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,682 Disability Gamechanger
    I believe it would be useful to have copies with you
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    You need the appeal bundle and usually no more than that. If you have any additional evidence it should already have been sent in to HMCTS and DWP. The odd individual document can be handed in on the day but that risks an adjournment if DWP don’t turn up as they won’t have had the oppprtunity to comment. 

    @shayjay the CJC is a venue I know well. Which part of GM are you in? Do you have a representative? @dannymanutd I know it’s silly of me to assume a United fan would be in Manchester but are you? Reason I ask is that Liverpool is the NW admin centre for tribunals but not where they’re held unless you’re from that area. Had a fair few people misunderstand that.
  • odonnell
    odonnell Member Posts: 10 Listener
    If mp backing you up  you sent letter  off your mp to trubuial  does dwp get copy from the trubuial  do you think  my mp letter  change pip desion 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    Anything you sent to HMCTS will be in the appeal bundle. If it’s not then it’s not in the appeal papers. That said, it’s unlikely to make much difference at all in most cases.
  • shayjay
    shayjay Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Well that was a waste of time ! I took everything I thought I would need , and guess what , they adjourned it !!!!!!! They want me to bring my son who has ADHD , Asperger and a servers language disorder , into court and speak for himself !!!! Well that's just !!!!! What do you say , it's going to be very upsetting for him . Can't wait !! 😡
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,876 Disability Gamechanger
    As it's your son's claim and not yours was there any reason why you went alone, rather than taking him? They will need to see him for theirselves and for him to speak for himself so they know how his conditions affect him.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited September 2018
    As it's your son's claim and not yours was there any reason why you went alone, rather than taking him? They will need to see him for theirselves and for him to speak for himself so they know how his conditions affect him.
    That's not entirely the case. My wife had an AA appeal and as she was unable to get around very much I went on her behalf. They certainly tried the appeal with just me being there. Didn't help though as I was branded not credible with my answers - obviously I couldn't answer a lot of what they asked.
  • dannymanutd
    dannymanutd Member Posts: 4 Listener
    @mikehughescq I'm from leigh/Wigan my tribunal will be held at liverpool tribunal service and my representative will be my girlfreind/Fiancèe do I have to ring and let them know as not been asked or anything thanks 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    It is generally a bad idea to be represented by a member of your own family. Try Wigan and Leigh Carers Centre for starters. Alternatively, GM Law Centre. 

    Here’s my standard notes on what the issue is.

    You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.

    - they’re nervous.

    and many other arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnsble cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

    You normally detail your representative on the SSCS1 form. 

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