Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Discrimination - No housing benefits for SDP recipients !!

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    If you get housing costs via HB they will be included in your UC calculation so you’d need to be a bit more precise about what it is you think you’re losing out on apart from SDP.
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  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    @apollo14lmp
    You ain't wrong there Thatcher is a princess compared to McVile and May and we ain't seen nothing yet of what these horrible vile creatures will stoop too.

    Personally I think this pair are the lowest of the lowest and lower than lower can go. Believe me something really needs to be done before it's to, to late?

    They are like parasites stuck to the bottom of my shoe.💩💩💩💩💩
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    When you moved did you move within a UC FS area or across to a different area which is UC FS? If you moved within an area then you retain your legacy ESA and can claim HB. If you crossed a border then that would trigger a new HB claim which ends your ESA and forces you to claim UC and UC housing costs.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    Ah right. So you definitely can’t get HB. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    The problem you have with a discrimination claim is that they’ve not compelled you to do anything. You’ve elected to not claim UC and deny yourself housing costs help. The help available for those costs barely differs between UC and HB so...
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  • kami24kami24 Member Posts: 355 Pioneering
    ok so i want to move back in with my mum as i feel totally alone and have borderline personality disorder and autism so i need her , it will be in the same county and i claim p.i.p and  jobseeker's allowance currently even though its not realistic for me to work in the future due to mood swings and having 33 jobs previously under my belt because of my disorder but no new claims of esa are accepted anymore so not sure about that anyway my question is will i be moved onto UC and will i get sdp still and will my mum have an option to claim carers allowance because shes not moving its only me moving to her or will she be forced onto UC too as she is on jobseekers currently as well????
  • kami24kami24 Member Posts: 355 Pioneering

    I agree not compelled but if I claim UC I would lose my SDP payments .. which total c £126.00 a week as we are in a couple.  IF I claimed UC

    So there is the issue of not being able to claim HB my rent is £120 a week so I am using the SDP to pay the rent if you like.

    They are aware of our situation - and as they are making SDP recipients ineligible for UC till managed migration occurs my present situation is awkward. So they should amend the rules and allow SDP people to get HB not too difficult for them that ..

    These people have created a perfect storm for us doing this .. not compelled to claim UC but left essentially with no SDP due to their fun and games ! as Im paying my rent with it …

    Why leave people without access to HB funding at all - this should not happen - know what they are doing to a people with complex illnesses so in mind they ar...e creating a situation with discrimination as the (MY)choices here only apply to disabled people

    totally agree with you UC is a disaster if it cuts disabled peoples money as most of the time they are the most vulnerable and already poorest in society ....so sad
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  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    I am so glad I have seen this post as i thought I was the only one going though this ! I've been in tears since Friday night when my Housing Association called to tell me as no rent has been paid they are in the process of taking me to court to evict me !

    I was told I have the choice to stay on my legacy benefits (SG ESA & PIP) by ESA and not to change over until I get a letter from them telling me to change over during managed migration . UC said not to apply as I'd be losing about £45 per week and told me to send an appeal to my council but by then it was already too late . This is all because my HA decided to take 2 months to give me my tenancy agreement , the last piece of evidence the council were waiting on for my change of address from my old flat in the same borough that was in receipt of housing benefit!. We went to court in early May so I could succeed the tenancy of my late Mother ,I won , but to spite me they didn't give me my tenancy agreement until July, and they knew June 20th was when my Local Authority became a full UC area.
    This has left me with no money to pay my rent (£160 pw) and in significant arrears . I'm paying what little I can a month but its a drop in the ocean.

    I quite agree with the OP , and have been so angry for months when I think about how people like us have not been accounted for in this disgusting mess of an overhaul that clearly isn't working ! Why give us the choice to stay on legacy benefits if it means we won't have housing benefits !? And they wonder why homelessness is at a horrific level !? No doubt because of situations like this!

    My only choice now is being forced back into work , which will cause a breakdown due to mixed anxiety and chronic depression. 
    For the last two nights I've been fighting the urge not to take an over dose. I have to take medication just so I can get to and stay asleep as I'm numb from stress and still grieving my Mother .
       
    I am so sick of them spouting the same lies when faced with evidence they are leaving the most vulnerable poor and destitute !

    My heart is aching when i think of those forced on to this horrible 'benefit' who will have nothing this Christmas .

    The sooner these evil demons are out the better !
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    Easy to forget the Labour Party introduced the WCA isn’t it! Equally easy to forget that the Labour Party have literally no clue as to what to offer as an alternative to UC. 
  • Charlie123Charlie123 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Hello,

    I have been long term sick for 15 years since a teenager. I have always lived with parents but am looking at the potential of getting a flat. However, I am in a full UC area. If I apply for HB I will be migrated to UC (currently on IR ESA SG and PIP) which looks the only option? This is ok. But also though sadly it seems I won't get the SDP which is substantial. I know that there is some protection for people already on this, coming into effect - but is there anything for people who have never claimed it?

    At present I am applying for carers allowance instead for my parents to claim, but ideally I would have preferred to get SDP myself and wondered if this is being looked at at all? I presume I can stop the carers allowance if there was a chance. To live alone will cost me so much more and yet the cutback - for no reason - is huge. I hope this somehow gets fairer as most people who hadn't been forced to trigger a switch to UC would get this and it is protected.

    Many thanks

    Charlie



  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous

    Tressell1 - Im glad my post has brought you some peace - Im sorry you have had such awful times during the past few days. I always find talking help I have plenty of support and hope you do too. Please keep your chin up these **** tories might soon be gone - Labour will be asking for a vote of confidence if May cannot pass Brexit Bill - From all I have read I hope she fail and they fall from power.

    I believe that the legacy with no HB is discriminatory but these rats we deal with are very clever sly devious rats .. they well know the game they play ! so sly they would rat on their own mothers - look how they treat the PM that Rees Mogg knocks me sick he is a [edited by moderator] rich man worth over £100 million taking a pittance off sick and the poor - Scrooge he is  .. they are all worse than gutter **** - I hate them .. pure simple hatred of them … that May women is just vile … awkward break dancing vile .. she gives me the creeps  … they have made my life a nightmare for 5 years now … sadly we are not alone ..

    They did not want to "account " for me and you and others this was all done cleverly to make you go to work and not claim a  penny off them wether you can sustain work they do not care  - they don't care who lives or dies the more that they fail and  destroy the happier they are ! they did not wish to account for us they mean to destroy us .. they do not account for strength in the face of adversity and that is were they sometimes fail - people like you taking a stand to them !

    They are worse than anything I have ever seen - WCA falsified by so called Health care "professionals"  same with PIP .. could not make this up

    I hope you are feeling better with this good news - but if you feel so down please seek advice from Samaritans or medical professional  don't become a victim of these vile tories … I hope you can resolve you housing issues Im sure you will with the correct help …  

    I suffer generalised hypertension  OA, gout, Atrial Fib, PTSD and depression and I know how you feel - I could not work at present no way - I m trapped …I know how you feel  ...

    Good luck chin up and stay strong - wishing you all the very best …. life will get better …..



    Thanks so much ! Felt much better reading your reply too! I know this is just their way of trying to claw back money from the most venerable people ( to fund what I don't know ! Certainly not the people of this country ! ) 

    It sucks being stuck at home I know , at this time of the year anxiety keeps me cooped up indoors this is what these devils fail to understand, we need to extra money for things like cabs and buying food online because certain tasks are difficult for us to handle ! They're using brexit as a distraction from the destitution they have caused us ! How can you expect us to live on £317 pm !?

    I read an article where a woman said they awarded her £98pm! 

    My step mum and Dad have done a joint application and get £248pm and that entire amount goes straight on the shortfall in their rent , leaving them to live on his pension .
    Who in their right mind would willingly change to this nonsense!? 

    I let out a whoop of joy this week when I read about the vote of no confidence being submitted .

    We have just got to look after ourselves the best we can and pray they're booted out asap . 
    Wishing you all the best x
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @apollo14lmp, I just thought I should clarify that explicit language is automatically censored on the forum after you post your message.

    We want to keep the community a safe and supportive place for everybody, of all ages, and so this is done as a precaution, rather than being a reflection on the content you're posting or the discussion in question. Hope this helps to clarify things.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    I  would like to thank Apollo141 for pointing out the COMPLETE TRUTH  about
    how discrimatory and devious this government has been towards disabled people.
    I was made homeless and put up by a friend for 3 weeks whilst on SDP and on ESA. Redditch Council found me a place to live and would not grant me Housing Benefit on the old legacy benefits. Ive been forced to pay full rent for over a year.
    Costing over £4,000.Ive been forced to go to food banks and my own serious health problems have deterioated. I suffered a major heart attack and my neuropathic problems connected to my diabetes have got much worse. I have tremors in my hands and had to ask a friend to type this out on the computer.
    I also have severe anxiety and depression treated with medication. I thought there was hardly any light at the end of the tunnel but you APOLLO141 have given me hope that the new gateway conditions in January might give us fresh hope.
    I know countless people that voted Conservative but because of what they have done will never vote for them again.I just hope Labour and the SNP join forces to bring about a better government who cares about its own people.
    Surely not allowing us Housing Benefit is breaking the Human Rights rules
    Is It ?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    I  would like to thank Apollo141 for pointing out the COMPLETE TRUTH  about
    how discrimatory and devious this government has been towards disabled people.
    I was made homeless and put up by a friend for 3 weeks whilst on SDP and on ESA. Redditch Council found me a place to live and would not grant me Housing Benefit on the old legacy benefits. Ive been forced to pay full rent for over a year.
    Costing over £4,000.Ive been forced to go to food banks and my own serious health problems have deterioated. I suffered a major heart attack and my neuropathic problems connected to my diabetes have got much worse. I have tremors in my hands and had to ask a friend to type this out on the computer.
    I also have severe anxiety and depression treated with medication. I thought there was hardly any light at the end of the tunnel but you APOLLO141 have given me hope that the new gateway conditions in January might give us fresh hope.
    I know countless people that voted Conservative but because of what they have done will never vote for them again.I just hope Labour and the SNP join forces to bring about a better government who cares about its own people.
    Surely not allowing us Housing Benefit is breaking the Human Rights rules
    Is It ?
  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Please APOLLO141MP  can you tell me ,will the Gateway condition change on
    January 16th 2019 . I  have truly felt so much poverty over the last 12months it has impacted my health terribly and my mental health.
    Having being forced to pay my rent of over £440 @ month to Redditch Council
    I have had to seriously cut back on much needed food.
    Redditch Council awarded me housing benefit by mistake .Awarded it,then withdrew it. Misery upon misery. So I'm hoping that this new gateway condition 
    will allow me to put in a new claim for Housing Benefit. Will I be allowed to backdate the claim at all? Ive lost between £4000 to £5000 over this last year 
    being forced to pay full rent. I am nearly broke close to bankrupcy.
    I don't drink or smoke
    God knows what would happen if I did
    Your help ,indeed anyones help on this matter will be appreciated
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    But not actually wholly accurate either.

    Facebook - literally the last place you should get any benefits advice ever. It’s the Wild West of half understood advice.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger

    Why is it inaccurate … were I live there is no advice - oh yes .. a CAB situated next to the Job Centre staff in a council office....

    Please elaborate … don't want people to get wrong idea …

    The Facebook post says there’s still no guidance for starters and yet it was clearly published in August. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    So, as I said, the Facebook post is wrong.

    Personal opinion based on professional experience. Labour introduced the WCA. Trying to pretend the Tories perverted the intent ignores the basics of the WCA. That a Labour government introduced the WCA at all is embarrassing so to claim now what they wouldn’t do is disingenuous at best.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    What? DLA was introduced by the Tories in 92. Labour had nothing to do with it and used it for nothng. The system of regular, repeated WCAs was introduced by Labour. The Tories simply carried that on but made it worse by adding PIP functional assessments into the mix. All politician believe too many people are out of work and sick. Even Labour. Latter in many ways, practically, almost always make things worse because they shy away from sweeping change and tinker because they don’t really know what to do. The tinkering introduces exactly the sort of complexity and unfairness people rail against in places like this. 

    My politics are naturally left leaning but having worked in advice work for a long time you’d have to be pretty delusional to think that a change of government fixes this. It never has. Even now, Labour have no clue whether to tweak, delay or abolish UC. Why? They’ve had the best part of a decade to figure something out but they’re beholden to focus groups and opinion polls rather than ideology. 
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Don't throw the towel in. Never.
    Mike Hughes is trying to tell us not to trust Facebook .I don't trust Facebook
    anyway. 
    Apollo 141mp I'm sharing the same distress as you as a disabled person and it is
    utterly disgraceful how you and I lost Housing Benefit based on the poverty levels
    we already are on.
    Thanks for pointing out how important January 16th 2019 really is.
    This gateway condition should go a long way to help us.
    Just found a leaked document quoting DWP Point116 (Regulation3 in which it
    clearly states that new claims to other benefits including Housing Benefit will be allowed )
  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    To all readers.
    With reference Apollo141 mp 's comments and indeed Mike Hughes ,why
    haven't the local councils been advised on whether or not Disabled people
    will be able to claim Housing Benefit when the new Gateway conditions
    kick in ,in January.2019 ?
    Is it DWP that advises the councils ? or another government body?
    I take your point Mike that Labour did introduce WCA  assessments but I also
    feel that when professional people like Doctors and Specialists say someone is
    not fit for work then any government including this one should respect the professionals and not pressurise disabled people into work.
    Iain Duncan Smith was paid a massive amount of money to talk about compassion at a conference in Canada a while back. What an absolute joke.
    He has driven more people into poverty than ever known I think. Its a complete
    disgrace.
    When someone has an incurable illness I cannot understand why the government feels it must retest them every few months.
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi all readers and Apollo141mp.
    A leaked document is circulating from DWP which says and I quote that when the new gateway condition concerning SDP claimants kicks in ,in January then it says
    we will qualify for extra benefits.I'm presuming  Housing Benefit.
    In reality when this new Gateway condition does come into effect ,it says SDP
    claimants will not be allowed to join Universal Credit until Transitional protection
    is in place from July 2019 onwards so I feel being stuck on legacy benefits
    local councils will be informed by DWP that Housing Benefit applications will have to be awarded and might even be backdated.
    Please,anyone out there ,give me opinion on this subject
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Apollo141mp Thanks for wishing me good luck. Same to you.
    Ive got to agree with you  ,councils are keeping us in the dark and all this about not allowing us Housing Benefit has just got to be unlawful somehow especially as
    anyone on very low incomes even from benefits should qualify for Housing
    Benefit. 
    My own local council tried to force me on Universal Credit but I have my own mind
    I said," No" because of the threat of losing my SDP but when we will not be allowed to go over to Universal Credit in January it will open a whole new ball game,so to speak
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    There is no leaked document. Everything is public domain and at present the bottom line is no-one knows whether what is scheduled for January will take place. 
  • kami24kami24 Member Posts: 355 Pioneering

    For all that I say I don't believe that welfare should be a free for all. I am not opposed to scrutiny. I have been told not my own experience that DLA you did not always have to produce medical evidence at all. Labour used DLA to cut unemployment numbers ?? don't know - what I was told. So I think there has to be a system based on fairness and evaluation. Producing your medical evidence once every few years is acceptable I suppose being hounded and using the system of Atos WCA lies is all wrong as is harassing sick people !   

    The WCA has been used to brutalise people by the tories they used the WCA system to create PIP I think. But I think the Tories underestimated the true number of people who are ill. They thought many were faking it and now use the system to abuse people .. me -  8 WCA 1 DLA and 4 PIP one paper based what a load of rubbish - harassment even. No tories to blame for this system and the way iy treats people sooner they gone / split the better - damn them all .. Even proved one Atos "HCP was a liar funny that was... they are out of control should know better hope they get caught out and struck off … I would be delighted to get one struck off I would have a party … see them with no job money  justice that would be 

    UC is a disaster and what a waste all the money spent setting the **** up we all thought jsa and esa were bad enough until thus UC came along and all that paper the stupid government is wasting on forms for absolutely everything..... Its all one big joke when other people are just scamming thousands by tax fraud, income support, child benefit what goes abroad and so in and so on .. They should target the right people not vulnerable adults, children and carers 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    UC full service is paper free and IS and CB fraud levels are negligible. Facts are good.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    The same internet that gets you on this forum! Plenty of rubbish info out there but lots of reliable sources. Not web forums in general. 
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m afraid I don’t do one to one advice on the Internet. I can only talk in general terms. I’d be interested in how you know the information you’ve been given is dud.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m not understanding what the above has to do with HB back to 2016 and I wouldn’t expect anyone to be able to accurately advise about January 2019 as no-one knows exactly how this will play out. You can’t really advise on a proposal.

    i think you might also want to reread the Gateway conditions as they effectively no longer exist in full service areas.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    You can’t “know” what hasn’t been finalised and you’ll forgive me if I don’t engage further when the posts start to involve insulting people. 
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  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    BTW  i believe the gateway condition excluding SDP claimants from HB were set to force people to UC .... BUTsome here have fought on...
    Yes we have and we will continue too ! I'm hoping for a better new year for us all x
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Apollo141mp and all readers. I have a draft letter that states its from DWP and
    says Regulation 3 of the Amendment Regulation says clearly that SDP claimants
    in a date in January will be able to make new claims to existing benefits
    The link is http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/pdfs//uksi 20141230 en.pdf
    DWP and Universal Credit wrote to Denise Whitehead (Secretary of Social Security Advisory Committee)
    What seems interesting is that the letter mentions draft regulations and an 
    Explanatory Memorandum which gives more detail of the amendments and provides background to the new regulation as well as a Keeling Version.,but all those details are secret between DWP and Denise Whitehead.
    These secret details must be able to tell us which existing benefits will be claimable when the new Amendments come into force in January.
    Mike Hughes said" some people like myself opted to refuse to join Universal Credit and therefore he thinks that the government shouldn't be accountable for the Housing Benefit we have lost"
    With respect I totally disagree with him because who in their right mind would sign up to Universal Credit and lose over £300 @ month in SDP benefit.
    Apollo141mp I will try like you to backdate my Housing Benefit claim in January
    based on the fact that Housing Benefit was unlawfully not granted and there is clear evidence of discrimination towards Disabled people with SDP benefits
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2018
    There are no secret things going on here. No great conspiracy. 

    The current state of play is that there are draft regulations whuch have yet to be approved and a growing number of people saying they’ve been given insufficient time for consultation. Nice factual summary at https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/Work-and-Pensions-Committee-calls-on-DWP-to-withdraw-draft-universal-credi

    You will find a link to the full draft regulations in there. The explanatory memorandum is the opening section. All public domain as you’lll see.

    As parliament has yet to approve the draft regs and momentum is building for a delay the date in January is currently irrelevant. Nothing happens on that date unless the draft regs are approved before the end of this year. The small matter of Brexit and Christmas makes that increasingly unlikely. 

    I would appreciate it if you would re-read what I actually said earlier in this thread which was absolutely not that the government should not be accountable.

    My post is very clear and relates to the OPs circumstances alone. In a UC area you might have some kind of case If you claimed UC and could show a loss. They haven’t and therefore can’t. Furthermore I made the explicit point that their UC costs were likely to match their HB so any loss would presumably be on some other aspect.

    I am not a fan of being misquoted for someone else’s ends so I’m out and I will add you to my ignore list. 
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    FAO mikehughescq and all readers. 
    I have not misquoted what you said.You said " There is no financial difference
    between someone on Universal Credit unable to claim SDP and someone on old legacy benefits claiming SDP. You are totally wrong ,hence why so many people
    are proving the loss off transitional benefits is unacceptable. Losses of up to £300
    @ month.
    You said" You will add me to your ignore list"
    I hope the moderator on this site stops you being so rude to other users on this site.
    You have been very rude to Apollo141mp and it isn't acceptable
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Please remember our community guidelines.  Also consider that member's post are opinion not necessarily fact.  Can we all please treat eachother with some courtesy.
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    REF SAM SCOPE 
    I am only one out of many that make comments but I'd like to say a big thankyou
    to SCOPE for such a brilliant site were current issues like how Disabled people
    are being penalised by the shortcoming of the Universal Credit are discussed.
    Will do our utmost to treat each other with courtesy
    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Does anyone have any up to date news on the new Gateway condition for
    ESA claimants with SDP ,hopefully in place by January 16th 2019?
    I have had to pay full rent for a year out of my benefits which have seriously affected my deteriorating medical condition/
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    There's no updates to this.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Thanks Apollo11cdr. Also if anyone hears anything about the new gateway
    condition for Esa claimants receiving SDP ,please relpy on here.
    Many thanks and Happy New Year to everyone
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    As already stated there is no news on this. With 87 days to Brexit you can safely conclude that the only likely news will be a delay.

    There's certainly no point in contacting your local HB team as all change will be in the public domain. 
  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    Will keep you updated if I hear anything as contacting our LA's may help them to actually find out for us and because each of our LAs may have different things to say . I'd  Ignore Mike, I've seen his replies on a few discussions (Including my own thread) and they're all rude or very condescending. We are all having a rough time of it , doesn't mean anyone deserves to be disrespected.

    Keep fighting ! Happy New Year to you all xx 


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    Comment on the post not the poster is a condition of the forum I believe. Sadly I can’t ignore you or your rude post as I’ve reached the ludicrously low limit on that but I doubt you’ll convince that “all” my replies are “rude or very condescending”. 

    No-one is being “disrespected”. They’re being given a summary of the current position; what’s likely to happen next and when. If you don’t want that then feel free to hit the ignore button or fight amongst yourselves. 

    Local authorities will know what the score is when they get a HB circular. In most cases that’s the first they know. In this case, the high profile of managed migration and transitional protection means there’s likely to be a public statement before a circular is issued confirming or otherwise any legal changes. Both things are wholly in the public domain and there’s no benefit at all in ringing a LA HB team to see of they know “something” or have some kind of mystical “inside track” or can find out. 

    It’s incorrect to suggest it’s worth ringing because each some LA may have something different to say. These are national issues and will be dictated at a national level. There’s nothing local about what happens next. The only differences which come out in these scenarios are where either a LA or their staff misinterpret the national advice or someone in a call centre embroiders in order to sound authoritative.

    The draft regs aren’t even due to be debated as yet. They’re due to be implemented on the 16th of January 2019 which gives 9 working days to debate; pass; publish and distribute guidance... in the middle of Brexit!

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/19/amber-rudd-warns-of-further-delays-to-universal-credit and managed migration itself isn’t due until November 2020. 

    I fully appreciate that in the nightmare of UCFS people are understandably anxious to get an answer and will bite onto anything which offers or appears to offer that lifeline. However, what I have posted IS the current position. 

    You are welcome to the opinion that my summaries on this issue are incorrect but for the sake of the anxiety of others it would be as well to post links or other specifics demonstrating why I am wrong so people can make up they’re own mind.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    Duplicate post in error.
  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    Well I luckily have 5 I havent used :) .
    Let people do as they please . If it comforts us to call our LA and be proactive then so be it. 

    This is a place to find support,discuss and find comfort in knowing others are going through the same . 
    Not somewhere to try and disprove any comment someone makes.  

    I'm not being rude ,I'm simply telling you leave people alone and stop attacking those who make suggestions you don't agree with or indeed those who call you out for being dismissive of or completely disregarding their suggestions.  

    Highly uncalled for and not necessary. 

    We get enough of that treatment from the DWP. 


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    You’re “telling” me!!! Righty ho!!! Commenting on the poster not the post again.

    Sam_Scope said:
    Please remember our community guidelines.  Also consider that member's post are opinion not necessarily fact.  Can we all please treat eachother with some courtesy.


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  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi everyone, this is a reminder of the importance of respecting other members. Even if you don't agree with their posts, personal attacks will not be tolerated here on the community. Simply use the 'ignore' function if you don't wish to see posts from any particular members. If you have any queries or concerns about this, you can reach the team by emailing [email protected]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
    edited January 2019
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    I'm at breaking point because having to pay full rent has seriously impacted on my health. I won't give up this fight to keep going but being very desperate for food is
    a terrifying nightmare. Just cant understand why the government can't give us clear guidelines on this new Gateway condition supposedly to start on January 16th. I have an incureable disability ,suffered heart attacks and my diabetic neuropathic conditions are getting much worse.My ESA RE-ASSESSMENT
    is scheduled for a few days time. Ive gone down with the Noravirus so there is no way I can go for re-testing yet. Wrote to my council last night to say I cannot pay my rent until next Friday yet I'm not sure how I will raise it yet.
    We need answers from our government as to when we will be able to claim Housing Benefit before people like myself get to suicidal.
    I'm a 63 yr old man ,forced to be re-tested every few months,even though my doctor says this is detrimental to my health
    Will the persecution against disabled people ever stop
    It comes to something when someone like myself looks for a £1 meal from Iceland to keep going
    If you are suffering like me ,share your true life story on here
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Apollo have a great dinner at your Aunties and thanks for your kind words
    Chat on this great site later .All the best 
    To all fellow readers on this site And Scope for hosting it
    We love this site.
    Its a great site were fellow disabled people and carers can share their dismay on
    how poverty is hitting the most vulnerable in our society
    Im not feeling sorry for myself but reality is hitting home to hard
    Aren't we the United Kingdom the fifth richest country in the world and poverty and homelessness is getting much worse by the day
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Apollo and fellow readers .Ive got a friend to write a letter on my behalf to the local council asking what date new HB applications will be allowed ?
    Will let you know how I get on 
    What date will the new Gateway condition come into force?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Apollo. Thanks for the up to date news ,So there is light at the end of this dark tunnel. So from the 16/01/19 I will be able to put a claim in for Housing Benefit
    I  do believe you ? but Council Housing Benefit sites make no mention of it 
    Tell me again ,so it really sinks into my brain
    I do believe 
    What about back payments? Can Housing Benefit applications be backdated?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Apollo. Can you help me by telling me which town or county is helping you
    as in my own home town (Redditch) Redditch Borough Council are not updating
    their Housing Benefit site and the old information still says a person must claim Universal Credit unless a person has 3 children. 
    4 days away from this new Gateway condition and you are the only person 
    telling me a council says you will be entitled to future Housing Benefit
    I will greatly appreciate any help I can get.
    Also other readers if your local council is offering help towards Housing Benefit
    and the new Gateway Condition ,please blog on this subject on this brilliant site
  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    edited January 2019

    Important breaking NEWS !

    I have just been informed by my legal advisers of this important news release.

    For the those that said this would not happen ?

     https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-01-11/HCWS1243/

    You need to contact your Local Authority and claim your housing benefit ! from 16/1/2019 SDP recipients CAN NO LONGER claim UC and new gateway Conditions will allow you to claim your legacy benefit  and not the evil that is UC.

    Told you it would happen … never lie only hear to help ...

    You have made my year ! Well done for finding this out and thank you so much for sharing . We all knew it was already in motion and would have been silly not to be proactive, seek help and advice, and PUSH them ourselves !

    Update on my case , we are going to court next month in relation to the arrears building up due to my HA not giving me my tenancy agreement in time so I could provide my proof for my HB application before my LA become a UC area ! 

    My laywer and his senior both agree its going to be a waste of time and money on their part as its very clear this is their (HA) fault and they should be fighting my LA for their rent and not me ! 

    From what I remember from my law module in uni they are supposed to prove they have exhausted all options in trying to help you find a solution before they present their case to a judge and the judge will ask them why they haven't done more to help  . In my case they simply could have provided me with a letter to prove the delay (over 2 months ) in my providing my tenancy agreement was their fault. The judge will also see that I have been paying what I can and will look upon that evidence favourably .

    My laywer sent them a letter saying look, wipe the arrears as its your doing and lets not go to court , they replied and said they are going forward with the court date and accused me of " persistently delaying rent payments due " . Absolutely disgusting bunch of ... !!!

    So this is what I have been telling them the ENTIRE time , I'd been advised NOT to change over to UC until I'm told . And we'll get to court and now we'll have proof that I'm no longer allowed to apply AND hopefully ill be back paid and this will erase the arrears making the case null and void and a complete & utter waste of time and money ! 

    They lost against me in court last year to the tune of about 20k in court fees etc . They're about to lose again this year ! I do not go down without a fight !

    Praying you all win your rent back this year too ! 

    Don't let these bullies get you down ! I will be contacting my local MP and council this week and will keep you updated with anything I come across . 

     <3 
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  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    I will definitely send this over to them on or the day after the 16th.
    These "advisers"  don't know squat ! They rely on what they are told and are not able to research and investigate things until you tell them to . 
    Which we know too well so we are right in pushing them each to find out for themselves and get on with sorting out what they are going to do to back pay us our rent ! 

    *Also to all of us appealing this week !* 

    I forgot to mention a sneaky, little known process my old solicitor taught me is to make " a  request for an anytime revision " (Ask your LA where /who to send this to , I had to email it to a specific department) 

    For anyone who needs it I will do a template of the one I sent to my LA in 2015 which saw £5k back paid to my rent account !  
    This was written with guidance from my old Solicitor from Shelter .

    Basically its to ask for your HB to be reviewed for a certain time say May 2017- May 2018 for example . 

    Attach any proof you have and, as discussed with my current lawyer , try and get a letter from UC outlining what they have advised us in terms of us having been told to wait to be switch over under managed migration. Tell them about  the lack of help or information which has led us to either having to pay rent out of our own pockets with our benefits or becoming swamped in rent arrears while waiting to be switched over and constantly being given the wrong advice.

    This is my evil plan to hit them with this week ! I've discussed it with two Lawyers so far and they both agree its a brilliant way to go .

    Hope this helps , please let me know if any one needs the template and I will PM it to you .

    <3  


  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Apollo and fellow readers and bloggers.
    I really hope all councils in the UK have the decency to let us disabled people
    and poverty stricken people in the UK know were we stand in regards to claiming Housing Benefit after the 16th of January 2019. Legacy claiming benefits
    claiming SDP not allowed to claim Universal Credit until Transistional cover is in 
    place maybe July 2019 or July 2020 or 2021 or 2022 or 2023
    I despair
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    Tressell1 said:
    These "advisers"  don't know squat ! They rely on what they are told and are not able to research and investigate things until you tell them to . 

    I forgot to mention a sneaky, little known process my old solicitor taught me is to make " a  request for an anytime revision " (Ask your LA where /who to send this to , I had to email it to a specific department)”

    Government introduced a negative SI at close of play on Friday then went home for the weekend. The reason you now have this information is because an adviser spotted it buried and reported it to the press. Advisers eh. We don’t know squat!!!

    That sneaky little known process is a “review”. Has existed for several decades and is very well known. The law makes no reference to mandatory reconsiderations. There are just any grounds revisions (rebadged as an MR) or any time revisions which is the same thing but outside of a month and requiring specific grounds. 

    Telling you it was “little known” is embarrassing and wholly wrong.

    Worth adding too that there’s already opposition outrage about the way this was done and with the Brexit vote approaching there’s every chance it could be pulled if it gets a few more Labour votes onside.
  • Tressell1Tressell1 Member Posts: 25 Courageous
    edited January 2019
    Really Mike :D !?

    Unfortunately I can see your replies in my emails although I have blocked you. :/

    HE didn't say it was little known I just described it as such as it IS a little known procedure as many in the public don't know they have the right to do this ! 
    And its not something people are told is an option after their initial 1 month to appeal is over. To save face and no doubt money when departments make errors .

    Who's to be embarrassed when doing so put £5k back into my rent account!?

    You refer to Mandatory Reconsiderations, which I wasn't talking about ?The process I am referring to is written in Housing legislation which people don't usually have in depth knowledge of, therefore making it little know as an option. The point you were trying to make there isn't clear as I'd already correctly stated what this process is called ?

    There is detailed reference to an anytime revision under regulation 4 of  The Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit ( Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2001 : Section 6 and 7  Which states : 

    (6) A relevant decision that is prescribed under paragraph 6(2)(e) or (4)(a) of Schedule 7 to the Act may be revised at any time.

    (7) A relevant decision made in respect of a claim or an award may be revised where—

    (a)a decision in respect of that claim or that award is given by an appeal tribunal, Commissioner or court on appeal against a decision (“decision A”);

    (b)the relevant decision was made after decision A; and

    (c)the relevant decision would have been made differently had the relevant authority been aware of that appeal decision at the time it made the relevant decision.

    (8) An application for a revision shall be made in writing and delivered, by whatever means, to the relevant authority or, in a case to which the Work-focused Interviews Regulations apply, either to the relevant authority or to an office of a designated authority which displays the ONE logo(3).

    (9) The relevant authority may treat an application for a supersession as an application for a revision.

    (10) Paragraph (1) shall not apply in respect of a change of circumstances which occurred since the decision was made or where the relevant authority has evidence or information which indicates that a relevant change of circumstances will occur.


    And in the revised 2017 version under Part 2 Titled " Revisions and supersessions" 

    Again under regulation 4 ;6 and in precise detail at point 7 onward.


    So what if we share things we have found out between us ? We are trying to help each other!
    And yes can tell you're an adviser because you could have told those in historical rent arrears this yourself but didn't , could have told us what you found out on Friday ,but again didn't. 

    Why are you on here other than to troll, gloat and condescend people !?
    If you don't want to help others with advice or provide a comforting ear then don't reply at all .

    What a horrible, miserable man ! 

    Please don't feel obliged to reply, I honestly don't value your negative opinions . If I want correct advice ill ask my lawyers and barrister  :)

    And I don't care if the moderators don't like my post , but I'm tired of you letting this man get away with talking to people like this.


    Have a great Sunday all this is going to be a great week ahead ! Stay positive !

     <3 

  • teejays1617teejays1617 Member Posts: 92 Courageous
    Hi Tressell . Over this last year I have been forced to pay full rent not being allowed any Housing Benefit because I refused to go on to Universal Credit.
    I receive SDP as part of my ESA and I hope when the 16/01 comes I can put a claim in for Housing Benefit.
    I have had to go short on food and search for food as cheap as possible.
    Spinal problems ,proximal diabetes and the after affects after a heart attack 
    left me losing 3 stone and my own mental health has suffered terribly
    Can I backdate my housing benefit claim
    Also my doctor has noticed Tremors in my hands (uncontrollably)
    So I caanot write any more ,so I dictate my blog and my friend types it into the blog on here
    I will read your blog carefully as I desperately want to try and backdate my claim
    Thanks for helping us all on this site
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,914 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    To be clear then...

    Someone puts me on their ignore list but then goes and reads what I’ve posted anyway. Instead of following forum guidelines and reporting the post they make their points publicly despite advice to the contrary from Scope. Instead of just posting relevant factual information they make a wholly unnecessary comment about advisers and follow that with an astonishing assertion that I had wilfully withheld information. As such a statement is a clear personal insult, unprovable and potentially defamatory no prizes for guessing what I’ll be doing next. 

    This further illustrates why Scope need to urgently increase the number of people who can be ignored and ensure that people who are on said list do not trigger email notifications when they post. I understand these issues are being explored.

    For the record...

    I am on here as a disabled person, side-tracked by the often poor, inaccurate advice given by lay people with the best intentions but potentially horrendous outcomes. I am not here as an adviser and have no obligation; legal, moral or otherwise to post anything. It’s as much a personal choice for me post what I wish as and when I wish to post it as it is for anyone else. As I posted recently on another thread it’s not a matter of disrespecting other people’s opinions so much as ensuring posters understand what is fact and what is opinion dressed as fact. 

    To deal with the substance of the above post...

    1 - I was talking about MR because an any time revision is part of the same legislation. One needs to happen inside a month and doesn’t require reasons. The other can happen outside the month but always requires reasons. 

    2 - The poster refers to the above being in the Housing legislation but then cites the HB/CTB regs. CTB ceased to exist in 2013! Which one should people be looking at then? 

    3 - I actually learned of the negative SI Saturday from https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/01/12/the-dwp-just-dropped-a-bomb-on-parliament-then-ran-off-for-the-weekend/ via Twitter - it’s not even on Rightsnet yet - and posted on Saturday. 

    Suffice to say this will be my last post on the subject. I can cope with personal abuse but 

    a) simply shouldn’t have to.

    b) a small number of people on here are now explicitly targeting me. The other day we had a new poster register; find a post from 8 months ago (there’s no search facility so imagine how they did that!!!) and then post 4 posts directing abuse at me. They’ve literally done nothing else but Scope think that’s only worth a warning rather than an instant ban. 

    My time here is at an end. 
This discussion has been closed.