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Driving

Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
Has anyone claimed PIP stating they cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey due to anxiety or other mental health problems and they drive? 
Reason I ask is I have done so and the response from DWP was if my condition is that bad clearly I am a danger on the road and should lose my license.
This has caused me so much distress that I have had panic attacks because I am scared to lose my license. This is my life line as I can’t walk far or get the bus 

Replies

  • topshoestopshoes Member Posts: 442 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    Hi @Niclevi99 if i was you i would not take any notice what they have said they say all these things to all different people , at the end of the day they are no dr , if i was you i go to your dr and tell them what was said and it will be logged , please dont worry x  as long as you are not in danger to others on the road or yourself carry on driving x
  • pee14pee14 Member Posts: 108 Courageous
    @Niclevi99 Well I know I wouldn't  want to get in your car with you. Stress and anxiety could make you loose controll of your vehicle. 
  • topshoestopshoes Member Posts: 442 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    @Niclevi99 that was abit  below the belt what you said ,,,,i do know people who still drive who have mental problems and so on and taking pills for it all 
  • pee14pee14 Member Posts: 108 Courageous
    The more reason they shouldn't drive 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited October 2018
    I have to admit that there is no way would I want to be in the car with the poster.
    Although I have had Motability cars on and off for many years, I gave up driving when I felt that I would not be able to cope and avoid the possibility of a high speed accident caused by another driver. On today's roads, you have to have a sharp and instantaneous and reactive mental capacity. Calm in all situations and patient when everybody around you is not.
    My wife used to do the driving simply because I felt that I was not safe.
    Notwithstanding the mental health issues, the medication that I take slows my ability to react.

    There are plenty of other options - taxis, bus, train etc   
  • topshoestopshoes Member Posts: 442 Pioneering
    i even know people  who had epilepsy who was not allowed to drive  untill they had pills to control it , then they had to have a all clear from hospital and drs for  dvla so they can drive again
  • pee14pee14 Member Posts: 108 Courageous
    topshoes said:
    @Niclevi99 that was abit  below the belt what you said ,,,,i do know people who still drive who have mental problems and so on and taking pills for it all 
    No not below the belt just common sence
  • topshoestopshoes Member Posts: 442 Pioneering
    i do  apologise @Niclevi99 for above that was for  @pee14 what i said below the belt x
  • lindadeniselindadenise Member Posts: 302 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    I would go to your doctor and get it noted also discuss how you can get your anxiety under control. 
    People have so many different opinions on here, if you feel you are capable of driving safely then thats what you need to put across.

  • topshoestopshoes Member Posts: 442 Pioneering
    we  do not know if  @Niclevi99 have or have not seen a dr or is or not taking pills  x 
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    For a start pee14 I am on medication and do not drive or attempt to undertake any journey I do not feel comfortable with I have been driving for over 20:years without one single accident or speeding fine I have never had points on my licence and I have never used my phone whilst driving. I drive 6 miles a day on a journey I have been taking for 13"years. Quite frankly I find your comments extremely ignorant and wouldn't want to get in a car with someone who can't even spell simple words!!
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Maybe I should've started by explaining this but on this site I didn't realise people would be so quick to judge. You sound just like DWP. I have had this condition for over 20 years and my doctor has never once said that I should not drive. 
  • topshoestopshoes Member Posts: 442 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    you got me looking at all my spelling now  @Niclevi99 lol x 
  • pee14pee14 Member Posts: 108 Courageous
    Niclevi99 said:
    For a start pee14 I am on medication and do not drive or attempt to undertake any journey I do not feel comfortable with I have been driving for over 20:years without one single accident or speeding fine I have never had points on my licence and I have never used my phone whilst driving. I drive 6 miles a day on a journey I have been taking for 13"years. Quite frankly I find your comments extremely ignorant and wouldn't want to get in a car with someone who can't even spell simple words!!
    @Niclevi99 please take time to read properly I never said you was on meds, @Topshoes said knows people on meds. 
  • pee14pee14 Member Posts: 108 Courageous
    pee14 said:
    Niclevi99 said:
    For a start pee14 I am on medication and do not drive or attempt to undertake any journey I do not feel comfortable with I have been driving for over 20:years without one single accident or speeding fine I have never had points on my licence and I have never used my phone whilst driving. I drive 6 miles a day on a journey I have been taking for 13"years. Quite frankly I find your comments extremely ignorant and wouldn't want to get in a car with someone who can't even spell simple words!!
    @Niclevi99 please take time to read properly I never said you was on meds, @Topshoes said knows people on meds. 
    @You still shouldn't be driving if you can't follow a unfamiliar journey I agree with the DWP @Niclevi99
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Niclevi99 said:
    For a start pee14 I am on medication and do not drive or attempt to undertake any journey I do not feel comfortable with I have been driving for over 20:years without one single accident or speeding fine I have never had points on my licence and I have never used my phone whilst driving. I drive 6 miles a day on a journey I have been taking for 13"years. Quite frankly I find your comments extremely ignorant and wouldn't want to get in a car with someone who can't even spell simple words!!
    I passed my motorbike test in 1964 and car test in 1965 - both first time, with no driving lessons and within weeks of my 16th & 17th birthdays (mind you I had been driving tractors and all manner of trailers since the age of 10).
    When I was 19 I joined the Army and passed HGV tests.

    I have never had an accident or points on my licence or even a parking ticket.
    I have owned and driven all manner of vehicles including high performance cars and bikes.

    Yet because I knew that both with age, illness and disability I would not be as safe on the roads as I was in my earlier years I gave up driving. I didn't have to I just knew that my reaction times were getting slower whilst traffic on the roads was getting faster. There comes a time when having to stay in the inside lane of a motorway and trundling along at up to 70mph I felt that I was being a nuisance on the road to other users.
      
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I did read properly it was the  ' I wouldn't get in your  car with you ' part I was referring to don't be so condescending. I have never lost control of my vehicle and have full concentration when I drive. I see other people on the road that clearly shouldn't drive for example not indicating or undertaking on dual carriageways or not observing give ways or stop signs but I have always been fully alert and have even had to swerve and brake to avoid other people crashing into me! I can anticipate what  other drivers are  going to do before they even do it. If I ever felt like I was putting anyone at risk I would give up driving immediately .my original point was that the DWP were trying to be condescending as they have already concluded that I exaggerated all my symptoms and scored me 0 points. I hope that puts everyone's mind at rest! 
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I learned to drive in the RAF and did my car, motorcycle, class 1 and 2 and counter balance and rough terrain fork lift truck i have driven in icy conditions and four feet of snow all without incident I sought advice from my Doctor. My husband has depression and has the same qualifications as me and drives a lorry for a living and the DVLA found him fit to drive as he had to complete a form and get a letter from our doctor. I think the only person who knows is the person getting behind the wheel so now I'm quite happy you wouldn't get in my car because I wouldn't want you there either 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Niclevi99 said:
    I did read properly it was the  ' I wouldn't get in your  car with you ' part I was referring to don't be so condescending. I have never lost control of my vehicle and have full concentration when I drive. I see other people on the road that clearly shouldn't drive for example not indicating or undertaking on dual carriageways or not observing give ways or stop signs but I have always been fully alert and have even had to swerve and brake to avoid other people crashing into me! I can anticipate what  other drivers are  going to do before they even do it. If I ever felt like I was putting anyone at risk I would give up driving immediately .my original point was that the DWP were trying to be condescending as they have already concluded that I exaggerated all my symptoms and scored me 0 points. I hope that puts everyone's mind at rest! 
    Given those capabilities you mention I can see why the DWP would challenge your claim that you cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey due to anxiety or other mental health problems.
    If your mental health has degraded to that extent then I cannot see that you are as capable as you say you are - sorry but I would have handed back my licence a long time before it became that bad.
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Well clearly I misinterpreted their guidance on this activity  I am no danger on the road but I do happen to work for DWP in a different department so I do have all their guidance readily accessible to me and Social Security Law and tribunal decisions so will look further into it. I wasn't even born when you took your test yadnad so I imagine the it was different for you and if you don't feel safe then fair enough 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Has the guidance for following journeys changed?  It was always supposed to be about using public transport, so driving ability would be irrelevant.  
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Following and planning a journey is about...
    • ability to plan the route of a journey in advance
    • ability to leave the home and embark on a journey and
    • ability to follow the intended route once they leave the home.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    If someone sees it is snowing or icy outside and decides they don't feel able to drive in those conditions it doesn't mean they should give up their licence they are making a judgement. I intend to stop driving when I stop working since I am only in my 40s I have some years to go. The DVLA states if someone had mild to moderate anxiety they do not have to stop driving there is only a requirement to make them aware if the individual feels their driving ability is effected and you should speak to your doctor for advice which  I have already done. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Tardis said:
    Has the guidance for following journeys changed?  It was always supposed to be about using public transport, so driving ability would be irrelevant.  
    agreed, hence why I mentioned using public transport. The poster is fixated on driving a car with medical issues that in my opinion make it definitely unwise to drive.

    As far as I was aware that particular section has, was and still is assessed as only using public transport.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Niclevi99 said:
    If someone sees it is snowing or icy outside and decides they don't feel able to drive in those conditions it doesn't mean they should give up their licence they are making a judgement. I intend to stop driving when I stop working since I am only in my 40s I have some years to go. The DVLA states if someone had mild to moderate anxiety they do not have to stop driving there is only a requirement to make them aware if the individual feels their driving ability is effected and you should speak to your doctor for advice which  I have already done. 

    There's a difference between mild to moderate anxiety  and anxiety to such a level that they are claiming that they cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey due to anxiety or other mental health problem.

    That to me means that the claimant if making a wrong turn off a well known route onto one that they have no knowledge of they would be incapable of following that unknown route - presumably they would freeze and sit in the car no doubt having a panic attack.   
  • pee14pee14 Member Posts: 108 Courageous
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    My daughter claims Enhanced mobility for following and planning a journey and her ability to use public transport never came into it. Neither did driving a car because she doesn't have a license or the capacity to ever be able to have one. I simply proved it with evidence from the learning disability team that stated she can't plan or follow the route of a journey and the reasons why she can't. I backed it up with 3 real life incidents that actually happened to her and she was awarded 12 points because she never ever goes anywhere alone.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    If a person can't make a journey of any type without assistance then they also can't make a journey using public transport without assistance.  It doesn't follow that a different person, who can't do the unfamiliar route without assistance cannot ever drive a car.
  • Niclevi99Niclevi99 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Well clearly you know nothing about mental health because that doesn't happen to me yadnad it never has and if it did i wouldn't drive as  I say I don't really know the threshold for that descriptor as I have worked all my life and never claimed a benefit. I have mild to moderate anxiety and simply don't feel comfortable driving places I have never been as I hate getting lost. There are plenty of people who are scared to drive on the motorway and get a bit flustered and that is what I am getting at. Not all anxiety leads to panic attacks so if that is what this descriptor means then clearly I don't meet it. 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s completely different walking and driving a journey. Being in a car for some people can feel safer than being outside walking. It can remove anxiety and it can enhance abilities. 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Niclevi99 said:
    I have mild to moderate anxiety and simply don't feel comfortable driving places I have never been as I hate getting lost. 
    I'm sorry but if that is the sum total of your difficulties then the DWP decision  can be of no surprise.

    I would imagine that the position you find yourself in is entirely normal - not many people would relish the idea of getting lost.
    It doesn't mean to say that because of that situation you would be able to claim PIP.
    Did you have a professional welfare rights officer advise you in making the claim?

    If the worry of getting lost is acceptable to the DWP, then my wife has had that problem for over 40 years - since the night I met her and offered to take her home. She knew her address (having lived there and in that area since 1956) but could not tell me how to get there - why? Because it was dark!! It was only a 5 mile journey within Manchester. Instead we ended up going in the wrong direction towards Sheffield!! Took me over 3 hours to do the 5 miles! 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    I don't think they are claiming that is the sum total of their difficulties.  The first post on this thread states that they can't walk far, or manage a bus.  @Niclevi99 if you haven't had face to face help from an advisor, it might be a good idea to try to get some.  And ignore yadnad.  He isn't making decisions for the DWP.
  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Can I please remind all members that we want the community to be a safe and supportive place. Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you don’t agree with them.
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    You say you wouldnt like to be in a car with the poster.
    Well i dont feel safe knowing hes driving a car.
    Its very selfish to drive a lump of metal that could kill someone and you say you  feel safe? Cheek!
    What about all the innocent people you could kill while you "feel safe" 
    If you have mental problems you are NOT safe driving a lump of metal that could kill.
    STOP DRIVING be fair to everyone else. Usethe bus you wont kill/hurt anyone then.
    You know you shouldnt  drive thats why you posted in the first place.
    The DWP should take your car off you and anyone else whos mental state makes them a danger

    You feel safe what a cheek?

  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    It's up to the D V L A. 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Suffering from mental health doesn't mean you're not safe to drive!
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • lindadeniselindadenise Member Posts: 302 Pioneering
    I agree with poppy123456 and debbiedo49.


  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    I am still quite capable of driving despite severe physical and mental conditions and a ton of supposedly reaction dulling medications and will only give it up when I feel my abilities are affected but I have known some older people who were obviously incapable continuing to drive simply because they refused to accept their limitations. I constantly reassess my abilities and, currently, am fine. Although my reactions are slower than they used to be they are still acceptable and my experience has, if anything, made my driving better. On only one occasion have I driven when I shouldn't and I will not do that again,

    Some of this came up in my f2f for PIP and, although I still prefer maps, sis admit to needing to use the cars built in Sat Nav to find new places and had to steel myself to putting up with the stresses driving causes, not because of my driving but due to the generally low standard of driving by most other drivers. If anything I now drive better by sticking to speed limits and, unlike most people, accepting and sticking to driving within my capabilities. I still drive faster than most elderly drivers however, most of whom wont admit to needing glasses to see properly. Vanity is such a bad thing to mix with driving.

    I have had people tell me I shouldn't drive with the medication I take but the side effects are a generalisation and not everyone suffers them. I have also been told the same thing when I use either my scooter or wheelchair but again it comes from the stupidity shown by most people who have no understanding of such things.

    As far as driving in adverse conditions is concerned... I love nothing more than driving when the roads are covered in ice and snow. It's great fun. Too many people only drive when the conditions are good and experience of bad weather makes a person a much better driver.

    Driving is a personal choice and need constant evaluation as to your own capabilities and, unless certain thresholds are crossed, should remain so.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
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