pip appeal - panel had issue with a self purchased stick - warning to others I guess :)

davyjaz101

Hi had an pip appeal and they had an issue that I was no longer using the nhs stick that I was first given in 1997 (since then I just started using my own bought from amazon as they were better sticks – anti shock, folding, cork handle etc)  Had many doc/physio appointments using this stick and never mentioned as an issue

Panel adjourned hearing (my physio report was missing) but in the letter the stated – we have an issue as he was using a self purchased stick. The doctor on the panel grilled me about it – where did I buy it – how often did I change the rubber tips (ferals as the doc informed me they are called )

So if like me you are not using your nhs stick prob best to get one again if apealing IMHO

I am of course asking for advice about this   Any othe person had this issue of using self purchased stick bcome up in PIP?

Thanks ps first post

debsidoo

Hi @davyjaz101
Pip is a benefit to help people with the extra costs of having a long term disability.
I would believe that a self purchased walking stick would fall into this category.Especially if it is more comfortable to use than the one provided for you by the NHS.
I am copying in @mikehughescq as he probably has more info on this than I do he is a lot better informed than myself on these matters.
Good luck Debsidoo.x

Pippa_Scope

Hi @davyjaz101, and a warm welcome to the community!

Thanks for sharing this with us, and sorry to hear that you've had these difficulties. I must say, I've not seen anything like this mentioned on the community before but I'm sure there'll be others who can share their own stories. Fingers crossed for the outcome you're hoping for, and do let us know how you get on!

axwy62

I'm finding this a bit baffling. For lots of items, the NHS only supplies the 'budget' version so there must be loads of people who buy something better themselves.

mikehughescq

First things first then. PIP is not a benefit to help people with the extra costs of disability. That’s just government rhetoric used when it was introduced to sell people on the change and to add the extra angle that people will then start judging PIP recipients as not entitled if they can’t see day obvious extra expenditure. Poisonous bile ensues. It’s one of the many reasons you get people on here erroneously blaming othe sick and disabled people for being fraudsters etc. Completely wrong and yet people repeatedly fall for it. There is nothing in the law, for example, which dictates that PIP has to be spent or indeed on what it should be. 

This whole thing about where you got your items from is not as clear cut as many think it is. The simplistic logic of some tribunal members is that if it didn’t come through an official route then it’s something you like rather than need. Legally this is wrong because need is “reasonably need” rather than “medically need”. 

However, it is not automatically wrong every time because there are many cases where people choose to use non NHS items for immensely stupid, albeit well-meaning, reasons. For example, the person on NHS crutches who keeps the crutches but would actually have nor needed them at all had they done the physio they were prescribed. The person who uses crutches or a stick wrongly. This latter group is huge but they generally have no idea they’re doing something which is likely prolonging or making worse something which could have been fixed years earlier. 

Tribunais taking this apprised ought to at least be asked for a statement of reasons and record of proceedings to see if the justification is coherent but you can’t assume that it automatically will be.

davyjaz101

many thanks for the detailed reponses and why the panel might be thinking along the lines they were  - did find the whole thing baffling when they brought it up - I did have a supporting letter from my GP as extra evidence for appeal and it mentioned that I rely on a stick to walk - also provided my last physio letter which also stated 'uses stick heavly for his gait' so was a bit stumped why it was an issue  - and why ths supporting evidence was not acceptable to them - anyway going in with an advisor next time at least it was adjurned so I get a second chance to state my case and hopefully my new physio review will help back up what im saying

Matilda

Sounds really odd. Panel didn't mentioned my stick, which obviously was self purchased one.  Disabilty person asked if I'd decided upon my aids myself or if I'd been advised to use them but she didn't make a big thing of it.  I won my appeal.

Good luck with your second hearing.

Yadnad

A very interesting post.
I wear (should) two hearing aids which were supplied by the NHS. I also use a wooden walking stick to help me get about as best I can (never been assessed for one probably because I never asked for one).

What has been said may well be the reason why those two items alone were never accepted by the assessor which I thought at the time was strange.

Having now read this post I can perhaps understand why. A typical wooden walking stick (2 points) is easily bought from most chemists and I agree it could be for 'like' and not 'need'.

Likewise the hearing aids were never noted (2 points). A quick check on ebay and I find a similar set to my Siemens being sold as a pair for under £25.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hearing-Aid-Portable-In-The-Ear-Invisible-Amplifier-Adjustable-Tone-Digital-UK/273486834614?hash=item3fad15ebb6:g:3eEAAOSw9~5bsDHT:rk:35:pf:0

I can now see why evidence to show that the aids are NHS provided.

mikehughescq

In danger of missing a few key points here. Tribunals adjourn for many reasons and often not for the one they tell you. 

Also, whether or not they accept your physio letter is neither here nor there. All that matters is which points you were asking for; why and wyrh what evidence. A physio letter saying you use a stick heavily for a gait doesn’t really say anything about mobility unless it had a lot more detail.

Absoluteky sounds to me like they adjourned because one menber wouldn’t budge on an issue. Odds on it won’t even get discussed in the subsequent hearing.

Yadnad

Do they all have to agree in order to make a decision or can it not be a majority vote?

mikehughescq

@Pippa_Scope @Sam_Scope is it not possible to stop receiving notifications of posts by people on the ignore list?

Misscleo

Hi iv had comments about my walking stick from the QE hospital.
I pointed out that the 2 sticks tbey sent me home with made load clicking sounds which drove everyone bonkers so they bought me 2 nice sticks that are shaped for my hands ie: arthritis.
The doctor took a liking  to 1 and walked about with it.
He did say that most people had sticks that are far too long and some that are too short 

AndMac

I found Mike's comments interesting, gave me some food for thought!

Nothing like this happened to me, how odd it seems.

I've never had an NHS stick, it wouldn't have entered my head to ask for one. I've just graduated to a walking frame from sticks. as it's safer and gives more support.

The NHS supplied equipment is so ugly, why would you want to use it? I spend a substantial amount of my PIP on better versions of stuff the NHS supplies.

I have tripod ferrules on the sticks as they are a lot safer.

My PIP assessor (in July 2017) actually noted the point that I had bought my own equipment with a view  to keeping myself safer.

I got straight through the assessment, no appeals. and was awarded standard care. enhanced mobility. The correct decision, in my opinion.

Sam_Scope

mikehughescq said:

@Pippa_Scope @Sam_Scope is it not possible to stop receiving notifications of posts by people on the ignore list?

I am checking this out for you @mikehughescq

mikehughescq

Thank you. I have placed a number of people on my ignore list as advised so it’s a tad frustrating to still get emails saying they’ve contributed. Not the end of the world if you can’t but would be good if you could. 

Yadnad

Removed by moderator

poppy123456

I too would like to know if there's a way to turn off notifications because i also have some on my ignore list, as advised by the scope team.

[Deleted User]

Oh, I purchased my own stick because when an OT came to my home she saw I already had a stick and just adjusted it to my height and said it was fine but she ordered a perching stool and shower chair which I still have. I've since replaced the stick with one from Amazon. 

CockneyRebel

I don't have any notifications turned on, as a community champion I read every post anyway

mikehughescq

That seems rather unnecessary. 

Sam_Scope

I have removed the comment @mikehughescq

wilko

When I asked about a walking stick ( wooden type) the nurse said due to health and safety they are not allowed to use a saw to cut to correct size but I could have an aluminium NHS one, so I have since bought my own three so far keeping one on my scooter and one for the garden and a very nice wooden carved one bought from a charity shop one of a kind so I had to have it.

kazzy1

It's crazy. I paid to upgrade my wheelchair as I'm a permanent user to something a lot lighter. Must make note to use old NHS heavy beast.