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Refused my PIP

SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
edited March 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
hi I have just had my pip cancelled. - I have schizophrenia affective disorder And this lady spoke to me for 20 minutes. I told her that I don’t take my clothes off or bathe and she is still scored me zero. She scored me zero for everything and the problem is I was telling her what she wanted to hear. Because it looked like a doctors office. And I was trying to be positive about my condition. But the truth is very different to the answers that she wanted me to give her. My question is will this stop my ESA. Because I cannot afford my rent or bills without that. Who should I talk to and what do I do now. Thank you. 

Replies

  • Sam_ScopeSam_Scope Member Posts: 7,732 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2019
    Hi @Singing
    I am sorry to hear this, it sounds like a very stressful situation. I can understand your frustrations, you need to fit into the descriptors for each category, so for example, here are the descriptors for washing and bathing from the Turn 2 Us website:

    Washing and bathing is a daily living activity. Add the points you score for this activity with the points you score for other daily living activities to find out if you may be entitled to the daily living component of Personal Independence Payment (PIP).
    When you are looking at how many points you score for washing and bathing, think about what help you need most of the time to do it:
    • Safely
    • Well enough
    • Often enough
    • Fast enough
    You score the points for the sentence that is true for most or over half of the time. If more than one sentence is true, you normally only get points for the sentence that is true for the most time. You can only score one set of points for washing and bathing, do not add them together.

    No points
    You can wash and bathe yourself without any help.

    Two points
    You can only wash or bathe yourself if you use a special aid.
    You can only wash or bathe yourself if someone reminds you to.
    You can only wash or bathe yourself if someone watches you to keep you safe.
    You can only wash your hair if someone helps you.
    You can only wash below your waist if someone helps you.
    Examples of special aids:
    • Bath grab rails or hoist
    • Bath or shower chair
    • Long handled bath brush
    Three points
    You need someone to help you get in or out of the bath or shower.

    Four points
    You need someone to help you to wash your body between your shoulders and your waist.

    Eight points
    You can’t wash or bathe at all and you need someone to do it for you.

    I do understand how upsetting the PIP assessments can be but if you were telling them what they want to hear rather than what your day to day life is like, then they can only assess you on this. I understand that the assessments can be so tough when you are facing mental health challenges and lots of our members have said how unfair they feel the process is.

    You can appeal the decision and we have some videos about how to do this:


    And if you want to speak to someone, you can call our helpline on 0808 800 3333

    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Thank you , in the letter she said she had ‘changed the descriptors previously chosen based on the medical evidence recieved’ whatever that means ? 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Mental health can include extreme paranoia. Even though I know what someone’s game is, I still find it close to impossible to navigate. I am fighting for my recovery and this assessment tries to make me fight for my Illness to be in control. It is so confusing. I hope that makes sense. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    edited March 2019
    Anyway I met this person Elaine Foster, for 20 minutes and she decided I am not allowed to live. Whenever I said the truth, she would frown and glare at me, or sigh and tut loudly and disapprovingly, then ask me a but would you say you can... yes or no question over and over in ten different ways until I just said yes and then she was happy. I honestly think I don’t even know what I was saying yes to because she wouldn’t let me tell the truth, each time I tried to. 
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  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Singing said:
    Thank you , in the letter she said she had ‘changed the descriptors previously chosen based on the medical evidence recieved’ whatever that means ? 
    It could have been the evidence you sent this time contradicted the evidence you sent the first time.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Thank you Shelia, I’m concerned because they stopped my PIP in December, then put it back on and now cancelled it again this March. And when it was stopped in December, they then also reduced my housing benefit and my ESA. Which left me with £68 pcm after bills not including food. I’m not joking either that’s how much they reduced it when my PIP stopped. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Hi Poppy I do not think so because I sent them my GP’s list of my medical history. 
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  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    I so will keep fighting it’s just so sad that this is happening x Not just to me but really actually happening to people. The mentality of it has gone far too far. This woman was close to my age and just no sisterhood or understanding there. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Hi I yes I was given arrears, and then the next month pip was stopped again. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Please don’t worry, I’ve just been trying to do things on my own and now I’m going to have to change that. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2019
    It's possible that housing benefit and ESA to be reduced when you don't have a PIP award. It totally depends on circumstances.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Well I am confused because in my recent esa claim I am awarded as severely disabled, and in pip recently as zero. Though the lady said she believes me it is real. In December when it stopped they also cut esa and housing benefit. 

    Poppy may may I ask, how do I find out about how this could be, circumstantially?

    I live alone with no savings and have severe mental health challenges. 


  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    What grounds could they have to then cut esa and hb if pip is stopped ? Thank you 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Poppy123456 ESA SHOULD GO UP BY £30 A WEEK WEN YOU'RE NOT ON PIP I CAN'T UNDERSTAND why they have REINSTATED HER AWARD AND THEN 3 MONTHS LATER DONE IT AGAIN.. IT DOESN'T BODE WELL F ME !! HOW THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS IS BEYOND ME!!!
    ESA doesn't increase when you're not claiming PIP, not sure where you got that from. It depends on circumstances and which group you're in. If you're claiming daily living PIP and you live alone, no one claims carers allowance for looking you then you'll be able to claim severe disability premium. If you no longer have a PIP award then this SDP of £64.30 per week will stop. 

    For housing benefit, one of the reasons why it can reduce if you're not claiming PIP is if a person is under the age of 35 and living alone then they will no longer be entitled to the 1 bedroom rate. They will only be entitled to the shared rate, this means less housing benefit.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @poppy123456 Maybe it's got something to do with my partners carers allowance xx
    That will be one reason an ESA claim can be increased if a person loses their PIP but not everyone claims carers allowance.

    The reason singing's ESA was reduced was most likely because they were no longer entitled to the severe disability premium when they lost their PIP award.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Hi I just want to say please do not worry about me I am a trooper and I will not give up.  
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Yes I will be left with £69 pcm for food or amenities. 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello Singing,

    I'm sorry to hear about your PIP award being stopped. There is a time limit of one calendar month to challenge this and I think it is important to try and get help with this from your local citizens advice or advice agency. They should be able to advise you on the process and how to obtain further information to support your appeal.

    Good luck.

    Michael
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Thank you yes I am going to the CAB on Thursday. And I have written a letter stating I want a MC. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    I just recieved A copy of the assessment that I requested. And yep they have omitted things, that speak in my favour and literally just tying
    together three points that they have attributed for me having zero on everything. However, the information that they are using for those points is not accurate. - it’s literally a judgement from a stranger in 2o minutes that has no basis in the reality of my daily living. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Also the descriptors don’t seem to apply at all , - for each possible area they have listed the same 3 points, that are not even related to what is being scored - ie, she can drive so has no impaired cognition is listed every time under all sections - to support the decision, like for the having a bath section - so it appears unless you are dead or brain dead then you don’t qualify - if you can do anything at all and don’t look insane then you are off. 
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    Driving a car does actually involve good thinking and assessment processes together with arms/legs manipulation.
    To argue that you have cognitive issues would generally suggest that you should not be driving a car.
    Likewise extreme pain/lack of movement/prescribed certain pain killing drugs would also make driving difficult.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Driving will indeed indicate that there's no cognitive issues.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Yeah - it’s all messed up - the facts are I drive twice a week to a shop because any further I get lost. I am intelligent, part of my diagnosis is that I am too intelligent- so my thoughts go too fast - also who knows what is going on inside my brain without a scan, really. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    I respectfully disagree - we are not brain surgeons - 
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    Don't forget medication or certain medical conditions. Anyone claiming to have certain health conditions or are prescribed Opioids that are likely to cause the loss/restriction of a driving licence are well advised to be aware that the assessor would doubt your difficulties etc if you drive.

  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    Singing said:
    Yeah - it’s all messed up - the facts are I drive twice a week to a shop because any further I get lost



    With respect do you think you are safe on the road given that situation?
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    That is a dialemma.

    I have a friend who is technically blind, he has no central vision and I have to read any important mail to him. He has a very rare condition in that his brain compensates for the lack and his eyes move rapidly from side to side unconciously. The DVLA are aware of his condition but he does pass the required eyesight test.

    Safety should always be the first concern
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    edited March 2019
    Yes, my point exactly -  The brain is incredibly complicated. And even the best neurosurgeons in the world do not even know how it really works fully. We have no idea, why for some reason it is easier for the brain to drive, than it is to function in small enclosed spaces, for example. Once you have learnt to drive, it is a habitual part of your Neuro programming surely. They might have learnt to drive before their onset. They might even be a very good driver because they are hyper vigilant.  - But that does not mean that individual has the right neuro programming in their brain for the other things that they need it for. So, I do not believe you can make judgements against someone and what they are saying, if you are not a brain surgeon. And assuming that one size fits all. Frankly. And no I was not arguing that I do not have cognitive abilities. I do have some cognitive abilities. Of course I do. I am alive. But there are definitely ones that are not working properly that very seriously negatively impact my life on an every day basis. Also a further thought, driving can actually be quite a relaxing activity. So for example for someone with mental health difficulties, there is an ability to relax somewhat and calm down, you are passing lots of different areas of scenery, you are not stuck in one place , ruminating - People actually go on driving holidays. It is a relaxing activity. So maybe that is why there is more cognitive ease there than there is for other functional abilities that people need in everyday life. But do not have, because their brain doesn’t know how. Or can’t- is disabled- 
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    Singing said:
     Also a further thought, driving can actually be quite a relaxing activity. So for example for someone with mental health difficulties, there is an ability to relax somewhat and calm down, you are passing lots of different areas of scenery, you are not stuck in one place , ruminating - People actually go on driving holidays. It is a relaxing activity. So maybe that is why there is more cognitive ease there than there is for other functional abilities that people need in everyday life. But do not have, because their brain doesn’t know how. Or can’t- is disabled- 
    I doubt that many will agree with you on that.
    Relaxing? Yes it was back in the 60's when there weren't as many vehicles on the road. In fact back in the late 70's you could drive the whole length of the A! from London up to Darlington at night and probably only pass a few dozen vehicles.

    If anyone thinks that driving is a relaxing experience as you pass chocolate box villages, green fields with the odd couple of horses grazing in a lush meadow then I would like to know where you are.

    Driving today is very much like putting your life in the hands of others. Try the M1, M4, M6, M25 or even the A1M and see how you feel after the first 200 miles. Try thinking what could happen on a normal A road in an accident with a closing speed at impact of over 120 mph!
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    I live in the countryside 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    edited March 2019
    Antagonistic on a disability forum ? I think you might be going to hell - bye
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Singing I agree with you about assessors not being qualified or anyone for that matter to know whether a person can or cannot do things using their brain. I had a bad car accident ending upside down. The roof of my car caved in and hit my head with tremendous force. I noticed a marked difference in the before and after of my ability to focus on things, memory was also affected. I can focus well on one thing at a time but if more than one is presented to me I get confused and need someone to help me get out of that situation. However I love knitting and make up my own patterns. I can also write well as again it's something i enjoyed at school and still do but if I'm in a social situation I can't concentrate enough to carry on a conversation and need help by way of prompting. Hand writing is very difficult due to nerve damage but I can type on a computer. An assessor would just say because I knit, read and write well and can use a computer I have no cognitive disability. How on earth in even an hour long interview can they assess the workings of the brain. I have never had any tests done because when I asked my GP about being tested, knowing I have an acute health anxiety, she gave 2 reasons why this wasn't a good idea. First that the negative effect of knowing I had a cognitive impairment would out way any benefit and if I did there is no treatment or cure available. So without evidence I'm totally reliant on assessors believing what I put on my claim form and tell them at the assessment. Of course, needless to say, they don't. 
  • SingingSinging Member Posts: 135 Courageous
    Yeah, wow, thanks for sharing, the brain is an incredible thing ! X lots of love 💕 
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    edited March 2019
    Singing said:
    I live in the countryside 
    As do I. There is supposed to be a speed limit through the village which is regularly exceeded by most drivers who think 50 mph is acceptable. Then there are the cows in the middle of the road twice a day which causes chaos. Difficulty in parking due to the narrow road outside the shop. It's just as nerve racking as a motorway never knowing if some idiot decides to cut the corner on the blind bend in the road.

    Certainly not relaxing and there are only 530 of us that live here!
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    I remember the days when driving was a treat. On a sunday afternoon cranking up the old ford pop and having a ride out to the countryside. That was a simple pleasure. Later in life I I owned American cars and custom painted classics, which we proudly went cruising up and down the sea front. Now driving is more a chore than a pleasure, if I do manage to take a trip out to some beauty spot I cannot get out and enjoy a walk.
    Opps sorry got a bit nostalgic
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    I remember the days when driving was a treat. On a sunday afternoon cranking up the old ford pop and having a ride out to the countryside. 
    We must come from the same era when driving was a pleasure, No potholes, or poorly maintained roads. In fact in those days the road tax collected was used entirely to maintain and build new roads. Speed limits? What speed limits. The new motorways had no speed limit. Mind you with my old Ford Pop, 3 speed non synchromesh gearbox you could only get 60 mph at best downhill with the wind behind you. Going uphill in the rain caused the wiper (and I say wiper - driver only) slowed down to a near stop. You had to take your foot off the accelerator to get it to work faster.

    Those were the days of freedom on the roads with little or no traffic to worry about.
     
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